Should Children be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

Should there be an Age Limit to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

  • I believe you should be an Adult (18 Years or Older) to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

  • I believe Anyone at Any Age should be able to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.


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TRoxx

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I received some Flak from a Few Members in another thread when I Posted that I am in Favor of Not Selling e-liquids that contain Nicotine to Children or Minors.

So I am Curious if Other Members think there should be an Age Limit to buy e-liquids that contain Nicotine?

Or if Anyone should be able to Buy e-liquids that contain Nicotine at Any Age?


Children should not be allowed to buy products with nicotine !
First..
They need to eat breakfast cereals with a lotta sugar..and lots of starburt candy!
Then slowly introduce Caffine into their diet...Mountain Dew...7/11 coffee..Starbucks ElGradefagot...and Red Bull.
Eventually...they become adults.
and this is the time for nicotine...
Vaping Fruit Loops Nicotine Juice ...Blowing Cumulus clouds ...and rainbow of flavor...
 
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zoiDman

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They need to eat breakfast cereals with a lotta sugar..and lots of starburt candy!
Then slowly introduce Caffine into their diet...Mountain Dew...7/11 coffee..Starbucks ElGradefagot...and Red Bull.
Eventually...they become adults.
and this is the time for nicotine...
Vaping Fruit Loops Nicotine Juice ...Blowing Cumulus clouds ...and rainbow of flavor...

:lol:

_______________________
 

zoiDman

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I am soooooooooo against regulations on vaping.

Except for the ones that the FDA is putting forth...

...said 90% of the respondents in this poll.

(Oh, and I totally favor a black market approach to sales of eCigs to kids, said 90% of the respondents of this poll.)

Where do you Come Up with this stuff Jman8?

LOL

Why is it so Hard for you to Comprehend that some People can be in Favor of an Age Limit for Buying e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

This thread Doesn't imply that People are in Favor or ALL FDA Regulations. And the Rhetoric you are using seems to be More Like the things I read from the people on Other Side.
 

Jman8

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Where do you Come Up with this stuff Jman8?

From such sites as FDA.gov. Like where it says:

under the proposed rule, the following items would apply to newly deemed covered tobacco products:
• Minimum age and identification restrictions to prevent sales to underage youth

I'm sorry, you were saying...

Why is it so Hard for you to Comprehend that some People can be in Favor of an Age Limit for Buying e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

Cause I don't think they actually favor it, but instead are concerned with political fronting and thinking by doing that, it'll all work out in the end for their side of the equation. IOW, I am convinced that 91% of the respondents of this poll haven't thought things through critically and instead are appeasing ANTZ on a core item.

Reality is if kids can't buy it and reason given is cause it is possibly harmful (to them), then our side just served up justification for long-term, highly restrictive, control on a silver platter with a pretty pink bow. Really, don't need to justify any other proposed regulation if that one is accepted as "our side is totally in favor of that!" If the argument is these are potentially hazardous, then next step is to treat all potential users (regardless of age) as "kids who don't know better." And while some adults will see through that, then scientific jargon will be the tool used to demonstrate how clearly you do not know better about what is used in these products, whereas ANTZ scientist does know better. Therefore, you are like a feeble, fragile child compared to the all-knowing scientists who are looking out for entire public health, and not just one person who thinks there is no way they can stay quit via willpower, or other NRT's around.

This thread Doesn't imply that People are in Favor or ALL FDA Regulations. And the Rhetoric you are using seems to be More Like the things I read from the people on Other Side.

Nope, not ALL regulations, just the foundational one that perpetuates ALL other regulations.

I'm glad to go toe to toe on who's fighting for which side.
 

zoiDman

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Nope, not ALL regulations, just the foundational one that perpetuates ALL other regulations.

I'm glad to go toe to toe on who's fighting for which side.

So if you can see that People are not in Favor of All Regulations, why did you post all that Hype in Post #43? Because it Clearly states the Direct Opposite of what you are Now Saying.

Look. I know you think Children should be Allowed to buy e-Liquids that Contain Nicotine. You have the Right to your Own Opinion.

Just not sure why you Can't See that someone could Support an Age Limit and Not Support much of the Other Garbage that is going to be in the FDA Rules/Regs Package.

BTW - States Also have the Ability to Impose 18+ Age Limits on Tobacco Products. So if a State writes a Law and an Age Limit is the Only Item, It kinda Blows your People are in Favor or FDA Regs arguments away.
 

Jman8

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So if you can see that People are not in Favor of All Regulations, why did you post all that Hype in Post #43? Because it Clearly states the Direct Opposite of what you are Now Saying.

Because this poll represents the superficial thinking that our side puts forth. We don't want FDA regulations, but we have poll that shows 91% do want the core regulation that FDA has put forth. The regulation that rules them all. I think if all ECF people were polled as a requirement to stay on the site, that it wouldn't go down that much, so I don't think this is just the 130 people responding.

People claim they don't want regulations. FDA thread is around 120 pages of people upset over FDA proposed regulations. Yet, they vote yes on a poll like this? If I were a regulator, I'd be convinced that vaping community doesn't really know what it wants and seems to favor the idea that this product is likely dangerous to kids, which is red flag to rest of the planet that it is likely dangerous to all humans. And ought to be treated as such, which ANTZ politicians and scientists will be glad to deliver on.

And I'm one who thinks FDA regulations are rather tame. I expect the "ban the sales to kids thing" cause every adult issue goes that way. But once that is accepted, it really doesn't matter what else is on the table, cause as long as that item is foregone conclusion, then everything else is tame compared to it. Of course products ought to include health warnings and spend 50 trillion dollars to establish themselves as safe enough by ANTZ standards if (wait, that deserves capitalization), I mean IF you favor a ban on sales to kids.

How you gonna argue this is my right as an adult if you know the product exists for everyone and part of everyone includes kids, and you, in all your political wisdom want to concede that this is a highly dangerous product if kids use them? That doesn't compute and is why vaping community deserves regulations that don't ban the product outright but do regulate what is already conceded upon as a highly dangerous product.

Yet, you (a reasonable vaper) want to argue - it's not that dangerous. And yet, you as ex-smoker started smoking at what, age 13? So, this other item that you sometimes argue is deadly, but you are magically alive 60 years later after using it for decades, is knowingly going to be used by at least some youth. And they'll go onto be living in their 50's, 60's or even 110's. So, reality looks a lot like smoking isn't as dangerous as they say, but you want to side with political position that says vaping could be rather dangerous to kids, when reality is very likely that it isn't even a little bit hazardous to kids. If it is highly dangerous to kids, then it is likely fairly dangerous for adults. But if science and vaping community wants to put forth not all that dangerous to adults, then you are lying to minors by saying it is hazardous to them, especially given YOUR history with smoking.

Stop lying!
 

zoiDman

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Because this poll represents the superficial thinking that our side puts forth. We don't want FDA regulations, but we have poll that shows 91% do want the core regulation that FDA has put forth. ...

Who is this "We" you keep Referring to?

I know Many People who can look at One, Isolated, Line Item of the Proposed FDA Regulations and Favor it. But that Doesn't mean that they Favor ALL Regulations.

Why are you Having Such a Hard Time Seeing this?

I Don't think that Added Colorants should be Allowed in e-Liquids. And Favor either a State or FDA (or Both) Ban on Adding them to e-Liquids.

But does that Mean I Favor ALL State and or FDA Regulations related to e-Liquids and e-Cigarettes?

Maybe you are Still Ticked that Green Bay didn't get to the SB? But you seem to be Hung Up on the Fact that a Person can Agree with One Item in a set of Hundreds of Regulations. But Not Agree with the ENTIRE Set of Regulations.
 

Jman8

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Who is this "We" you keep Referring to?

The vaping community as a whole. Speaking in general terms, using rhetoric.

I know Many People who can look at One, Isolated, Line Item of the Proposed FDA Regulations and Favor it. But that Doesn't mean that they Favor ALL Regulations.

Why are you Having Such a Hard Time Seeing this?

Why are you having such a hard time seeing that this one regulation rules them all? You favor this one, the others are easily justifiable. "Won't anyone think of the children?"

I Don't think that Added Colorants should be Allowed in e-Liquids. And Favor either a State or FDA (or Both) Ban on Adding them to e-Liquids.

But does that Mean I Favor ALL State and or FDA Regulations related to e-Liquids and e-Cigarettes?

No, because that regulation doesn't impact the others like the kids one does. The kids one is like saying all men can vape, but women can't. Everything after that, will be considered tame when put into context of an entire segment of the population is banned from purchasing it. Now, if it were "women can't vape," it would likely be seen as blatant discrimination. But, I'm sure a good ANTZ communication specialist could convince at least some vapers that it's not that women shouldn't be allowed to, it's for their own health, their own safety, and ultimately for the entire public health as a whole. And obviously if women can't vape, then no man should ever vape around a woman, because 2nd hand vapor is incredibly dangerous... to women.

Yep, that's how ridiculous the ban to kids shows up to me.
 

zoiDman

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The vaping community as a whole. Speaking in general terms, using rhetoric.



Why are you having such a hard time seeing that this one regulation rules them all? You favor this one, the others are easily justifiable. "Won't anyone think of the children?"



No, because that regulation doesn't impact the others like the kids one does. The kids one is like saying all men can vape, but women can't. Everything after that, will be considered tame when put into context of an entire segment of the population is banned from purchasing it. Now, if it were "women can't vape," it would likely be seen as blatant discrimination. But, I'm sure a good ANTZ communication specialist could convince at least some vapers that it's not that women shouldn't be allowed to, it's for their own health, their own safety, and ultimately for the entire public health as a whole. And obviously if women can't vape, then no man should ever vape around a woman, because 2nd hand vapor is incredibly dangerous... to women.

Yep, that's how ridiculous the ban to kids shows up to me.

I hate to Break It to you Jman8, but No One Person's Views speak for the Vaping Community as a Whole.

You can Go Completely Off Tangent and make Unrelated Analogies about Discrimination Against Women. Or Play Other Cards or try to Associate People with ANTZ if you think that may give your Argument more Sympathy.

But I am Just Not In Favor of Kids Buying e-Liquids that Contain Nicotine.

Sorry Jman8. It is what it Is.
 

Jman8

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And if I told you (hypothetically), I'm not in favor of engaging in a CTA that would do thus and so, would you tell me I deserve whatever regulations are proposed?

If yes, then I am essentially using that same logic. You want regulations (of the harshest kind) against kids, then expect those regulations to be possibly invoked against adults by zealous regulators.

Fact is, if the regulations weren't in place, the same (zealous) people would be screaming for regulations and using propaganda up the wazoo to make them seem necessary, or what we are currently experiencing in the under regulated market.

But once the ban against kids is firmly in place, I can see how it would cost 10 trillion dollars to get your eCig product approved, because well, if we are concerned about the children, we need to make abundantly sure that kids won't have easy access to your product, and 10 trillion dollars helps regulators see how that might work. No guarantees (kids are going to vape afterall), but 10 trillion dollars helps make it more palpable. Sorry if your favorite vendor doesn't have that kind of money, but well, won't anyone think of the children? Which is worth more, the life of one child, or your favorite eCig vendor's business?
 

zoiDman

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And if I told you (hypothetically), I'm not in favor of engaging in a CTA that would do thus and so, would you tell me I deserve whatever regulations are proposed?

If yes, then I am essentially using that same logic. You want regulations (of the harshest kind) against kids, then expect those regulations to be possibly invoked against adults by zealous regulators.

Fact is, if the regulations weren't in place, the same (zealous) people would be screaming for regulations and using propaganda up the wazoo to make them seem necessary, or what we are currently experiencing in the under regulated market.

But once the ban against kids is firmly in place, I can see how it would cost 10 trillion dollars to get your eCig product approved, because well, if we are concerned about the children, we need to make abundantly sure that kids won't have easy access to your product, and 10 trillion dollars helps regulators see how that might work. No guarantees (kids are going to vape afterall), but 10 trillion dollars helps make it more palpable. Sorry if your favorite vendor doesn't have that kind of money, but well, won't anyone think of the children? Which is worth more, the life of one child, or your favorite eCig vendor's business?

You are Starting to reach Again Jman8.

And Pulling Number out of you .... Doesn't make for a Very Compelling Argument.

Just Except the Fact that there are People in the USA who do Not Think Kids should be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

BTW - Just Curious: Have you read Post #3?
 

TRoxx

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Reality is if kids can't buy it and reason given is cause it is possibly harmful (to them), then our side just served up justification for long-term, highly restrictive, control on a silver platter with a pretty pink bow..

The DMV will not give a drivers license to a child....
Is it because cars are harmful ?
 

Lessifer

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I haven't read all of the replies to the thread, so these may have been covered already, but here are the reasons I DON'T think there should be age restrictions on purchasing nicotine e-liquids.

1. I truly believe that vaping is about as harmful as other mainstream activities we all participate in daily, like walking through a city, drinking soda, etc.

2. Nicotine has beneficial effects, and BY ITSELF has very few potential negative effects.

3. In a perfect world, a child who smokes would have parents that would be willing to purchase vaping supplies for them. We don't live in a perfect world. I can think of many examples from many other areas where children are faced with adult decisions and the ADULTS in their lives have their own reasons for not making reasonable choices, usually tied to misinformation/religious beliefs/misguided notion of morality.

4. Vaping is not smoking.
 
No no no no NO! If you have to be 18 to buy analogs that contain nicotine why should it be any different? Even at 0 nic it's still a bad idea. I think it's sending the wrong message to kids, teens or not. IMO it's like giving a kid a real cig.. plus think in this POV, many states are already trying to ban e-cigs so encouraging or letting people under the age of 18 to vape is just another reason against us vapers to further prove their points
 
Reality is if kids can't buy it and reason given is cause it is possibly harmful (to them), then our side just served up justification for long-term, highly restrictive, control on a silver platter with a pretty pink bow. Really, don't need to justify any other proposed regulation if that one is accepted as "our side is totally in favor of that!" If the argument is these are potentially hazardous, then next step is to treat all potential users (regardless of age) as "kids who don't know better." And while some adults will see through that, then scientific jargon will be the tool used to demonstrate how clearly you do not know better about what is used in these products, whereas ANTZ scientist does know better. Therefore, you are like a feeble, fragile child compared to the all-knowing scientists who are looking out for entire public health, and not just one person who thinks there is no way they can stay quit via willpower, or other NRT's around.



Nope, not ALL regulations, just the foundational one that perpetuates ALL other regulations.

I'm glad to go toe to toe on who's fighting for which side.

Reality is vaping is a safer alternative to analogs and you must be over the age of 18 to purchase them (them being analogs ((even though kids will still get a hold of them..)) the point is that kids shouldn't be allowed to use them cuz they aren't allowed to smoke cigs therefore the use of PVs should be used only as a way of getting off analogs and that follows the law discussed above and in that perspective there is no way to fight that "its harmful to kids and/or adults" so the FDA would have nothing to argue if the matter was brought up this way
 
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