Should Electronic Cigarettes be Regulated as a Medicine? Like the Nicotrol Inhaler or the Nicotine Patches and Gums?

[Jazzman]

I don't think there's much direct relationship between regulation and taxation. Regulation is not a pre-requisite for slapping an excise tax on an arbitrarily defined product, nor does the FDA have the power to tax anything.

I agree Rossum, there is no direct relationship... but that being said, regulation has a cost and the cost is usually paid through taxation or a fee schedule. In California a bill was passed years ago that required a super majority vote for new taxes, and since they have a hard time achieving that fees have become the new tax here because they can imposes fees at will. It amounts to taxation to me either way since I pay for that. I also think there is no way taxation will not occur if the deeming regs pass. Congress won't pass up the reasonable opportunity for revenue from ecigs. And if the deeming regs pass , at the very least, eliquid will be deemed a tobacco product I think taxes will be assured in very short order. But I like your optimistic view, maybe I'm just too pessimistic and should trust our government more

 

[Rossum]

I don't disagree that the goobermint will will try to extort additional revenues from us, but I believe they would do this irrespective of whether and how much they regulate our consumables. Even if the regulations they impose on us are relatively benign and don't stifle innovation or the availability of products, five years from now, we'll probably look back and regard this time as the "golden age" of vaping. "Remember when you could buy a 30ml bottle of premium juice for $20? Remember when you could buy a liter of 100mg nic base for $60?" Well, not only do I remember, but I stocked up on nic base at those prices.

 

[Woofer]

Some of you are WRONG and I don't wish to discuss it!

In other news, a reliable source told me recently that Canadian juice industry has no concerns about nic supply at this time.

 

[Rotowoman]

What would happen? Would things be any better if ecigs were regulated as a medicine/smoking cessession product rather than being regulated as a tobacco product?

On the original subject, my views are simple. NO, I do NOT believe that Electronic Cigarettes should be regulated like medicine.

On the other questions, just NO.

I'm an old fart and always been somewhat of a rebel. I feel the government has intruded itself into my life far enough and TOO far. This is the information age. I can get information on what I want to do. I may be crazy as hell, but I'm intelligent enough to make an informed decision. I won't say I'm an anarchist, but I just want to be left alone to do my thing. I have NO intention of harming others. That is all.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

This isn't correct.

From 2016, all e-cigs across the EU will be regulated either under the tobacco products directive (2014) or under nation-states' medicines regulations. The TPD actually mandates that countries allow non-medicinal e-cigs on the market.

HOWEVER, the tpd also states the following:

Toxicological reporting to a "competent authority"
A "leak free refilling mechanism" for e-liquids/tanks
Bottles no bigger than 10ml, and e-liquids no stronger than 20mg/ml
and other points.

There's a lot of detail to be finalised on this, particularly on points 1 and 2, but England is possibly the single most liberal nation as regards how it wants to implement. I know this because I'm in regular contact with the DoH lead on implementation.

When it all shakes down, I wonder how this will affect travelers from outside the UK or even the EU. Some people use/need 36mg and that could put a big damper on their holiday. Plus, some people there need more than 20mg to quit. That restriction condemns some people to a horrible fate. Guess the black market will be thriving by the next time we are able to make it over there.

 

[readeuler]

On the original subject, my views are simple. NO, I do NOT believe that Electronic Cigarettes should be regulated like medicine.

On the other questions, just NO.

I'm an old fart and always been somewhat of a rebel. I feel the government has intruded itself into my life far enough and TOO far. This is the information age. I can get information on what I want to do. I may be crazy as hell, but I'm intelligent enough to make an informed decision. I won't say I'm an anarchist, but I just want to be left alone to do my thing. I have NO intention of harming others. That is all.

Preach it, Roto!

 

[DC2]

Prolly a psych doc. I got told once, by an ENT, that I have depressive/mental issues because I smoke. I went to see him for a chronic sore throat. It was the first time I had met him and I was in the room with him for less than 5 minutes before he decided he had me pegged. It's even in my medical record.

I strongly suggest you ask your regular doctor to remove that from your records.

 

[beckdg]

Preach it, Roto!

Here here. Motion seconded. Meeting adjourned.

Sent from my device.

 

[caramel]

If the tobacco companies get their way, that will happen. They'll get regulated to the point where you can only buy their products, and where you have to buy a new cartridge when your old one runs out of juice - no refilling. They'll do it for our safety, of course. And they'll pay taxes similar to cigarette taxes, so that they can get the politicians to back them.

And vaping as we know it will die. But the cigarette companies and the politicians will make a bunch of money in the meantime.

I'm working on outmaneuvering them. Through becoming nicotine free by the time they pass the regulations/taxes.

 

[RosaJ]

I'm working on outmaneuvering them. Through becoming nicotine free by the time they pass the regulations/taxes.

This is my goal too, I'm down to 3mg nicotine and many times I just vape 0 nic. I'd like to hear the regulators' reasoning on why anyone would regulate food flavorings. Would they ask if the flavoring is going to be used for cooking, or vaping? Guess what my answer will be...

 

[TyPie]

Let's look at the math.

A package of 14 nicoderm patches at 21mg costs about $40 online, $50 in stores. $0.136/mg
A package of 170 nicorette gum at 4 mg costs about $50. $0.735/mg
A liter of 100mg nic base costs $50. $.0005/mg

That 1L bottle of nic contains the active ingredient in 340 packs of nicoderm, or $13,605 worth of patches.
Or 147 packs of nicorette; $7352 worth of gum.

If e-cigs are regulated as medical devices, expect prices to follow the current "Approved" smoking-cessation pattern. A 10-ml bottle of 12mg e-liquid would cost about $88 at the gum price. Not including the menthol or tobacco flavoring (which would be your 2 choices, if we're lucky enough to get menthol).

Nice analysis here.......pretty damn scary, too!

 

[The Ocelot]

I don't like the idea that I would have to go underground to buy the products I need. Conspiracy is often a felony even when the crime one is conspiring to commit is a misdemeanor. A felony conviction for conspiring to quit smoking would be interesting (she types while humming Alice's Restaurant).

What are you in here for? Littering.

 

[Rossum]

I don't like the idea either, but I will NOT let unjust laws and regulations dictate how I live.

 

[Ryedan]

I don't like the idea that I would have to go underground to buy the products I need.

The idea that a black market would be created so people can buy healthier products to avoid diseases they get from government approved addicting products, blows my mind

 

[beckdg]

The idea that a black market would be created so people can buy healthier products to avoid diseases they get from government approved addicting products, blows my mind

And yet it happens every day in every state across the country.

Mind blown.

Sent from my device.

 

[Woofer]

Nice analysis here.......pretty damn scary, too!

Pity the math doesn't "add up".

I don't like the idea either, but I will NOT let unjust laws and regulations dictate how I live.

agreed and hope no unjust laws and regulations dictate how I die either.

 

[Jazzman]

Anyone vaping now that is not preparing to be self sufficient when the FDA hammer drops should seriously consider buying cartons of cigarettes while they are still relatively cheap at $6.00.pack. The outlook for the future of vaping is not particularly bright considering the malaise I see with the average vaper I talk to. It seems activism is difficult to achieve when concentrating on producing the best phat phogg the world has ever seen. I guess priorities must be observed and attended to before minor issues can be addressed.

 

[rhelton]

Yes !

 

[Lessifer]

Anyone vaping now that is not preparing to be self sufficient when the FDA hammer drops should seriously consider buying cartons of cigarettes while they are still relatively cheap at $6.00.pack. The outlook for the future of vaping is not particularly bright considering the malaise I see with the average vaper I talk to. It seems activism is difficult to achieve when concentrating on producing the best phat phogg the world has ever seen. I guess priorities must be observed and attended to before minor issues can be addressed.

Most vapers aren't aware that potential regulation is even an issue. Remember that for every person on this forum, there are likely thousands who have never heard of it, or anything like it. There are even some on this forum who think that regulation is nothing to be worried about.

 

[Jazzman]

Most vapers aren't aware that potential regulation is even an issue. Remember that for every person on this forum, there are likely thousands who have never heard of it, or anything like it. There are even some on this forum who think that regulation is nothing to be worried about.

That's a fair point Lessifer and I agree many are completely unaware (which is a problem in and of itself I think since local vaping establishments just aren't getting the message out), but I guess what bothers me is the amount of vapers I talk to in my local area that are aware of the pending deeming regs (including just about all the local shop owners) that feel it's not that big of a deal and won't really affect them. And honestly, they are only peripherally aware, they have never cared about the actual details and really don't want to engage in any kind of discussion about it. They would prefer to be blissfully ignorant. I guess that's the general malaise I'm referring to.

Then I come here and hear people that are actively aware and feel every bit as strongly as I do that is a real issue and unless it is vigorously countered it will become a reality in most likely the worst possible way for us. So maybe I'm not being realistic and taking this a bit too seriously. But I can't help but feel that the lack of awareness and attention to this issue is going to have a very profound effect an all vapers.... whether they choose to ignore the issue or not.

But maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic and this is not even a thing.