silica wicks danger

[damachine]

Hi, I used silica wicks for about 8 month when I first got into vaping a long time ago. Recently I read about some of the dangers of silica and I wonder how much risk I exposed myself to. Good thing is I've always kept my wicks well saturated when I vaped. Hopefully that cuts down on the number of inhalable silica particles.

Maybe I'm paranoid but I wonder if the quantity of inhaled silica is negligible compared to say...doing housework with cement that you get from Home Depot. Anyone know of studies on this?

Seems like risk depends on quantity of exposure and a little bit is alright. We probably breath in silica at the beaches...
thanks

 

[r77r7r]

Might have to do a search here. It's certainly been discussed at length iirc. Better to research here than the media or Google. We usually separate facts from fiction quite well.

 

[Mordacai]

I think that the information has more to do with silica dust exposure in environments that have high levels of silicates in the air.

 

[440BB]

My understanding is that the silica risks for silicosis are from crystalline silica "dust", while silica wicking is made from amorphous silica fibers. The difference is the size of potential broken down material - amorphous silica fibers are simply coughed up while the particles of crystalline silica, much smaller, remain in the lungs and cause scarring. The temperatures required to break down silica wick makes it highly unlikely in the first place. Industrial inhalation of larger volumes of crystalline silica seems to be the risky behavior.

I suppose if one were to grind up amorphous silica wicking into small enough particles it could be a problem, but we're not doing that. In my opinion, as we are inhaling vapor from a wet wick, airborne silica even in fiber form is highly unlikely. The only silica dust present would be from the initial cutting of wicks, so a quick rinse after cutting would be optimal.

I expect you will end up with no effects from eight months of vaping with silica wicks. Any problem should have shown up by now. I'm at the nine and a half year mark with no issues whatsoever.

 

[Katya]

Hi, I used silica wicks for about 8 month when I first got into vaping a long time ago. Recently I read about some of the dangers of silica and I wonder how much risk I exposed myself to. Good thing is I've always kept my wicks well saturated when I vaped. Hopefully that cuts down on the number of inhalable silica particles.

There are two kinds of silica--amorphous and crystalline. The amorphous silica, still used in vaping (mostly in initially in cigalikes), is perfectly safe and OK to be used as a wick. The dangerous kind is the crystalline silica--the kind that causes silicosis.

The discussion about safe and unsafe silica started after Aspire introduced a mystery "ceramic" wick (ca 2014) that crumbled to dust when touched (Busardo showed it in his video). There was a suspicion that those tiny, respirable fiberglass particles (under 5µ) could get into our lungs. This chart made by @Boden shows the size of amorphous silica fiber used in silica rope (22-32µ)--the safe kind--in comparison to the unsafe, crystalline silica fibers.

http://srs.unm.edu/industrial-hygiene/media/docs/silica.pdf (sorry, the link doesn't work anymore, I'm copying and pasting from my old posts )

"Amorphous Silica: Multiple studies have found amorphous silica to be biologically inert when ingested and inhaled, with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers (which have been designated as carcinogens by the National Toxicology Program), which are hazardous due to their very small size and their high length to width aspect ratio. Because of this inertness, the US Food and Drug Administration permits the use of amorphous silica (not fiberglass or ceramic fibers!) in food and medicine. "

 

[bask]

I saw the title and had 2012 flashbacks.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Seems like risk depends on quantity of exposure ...

Hold On to that Very Tightly. Because it is a Fundamental Concept when talking about things like Risk, Harm, and Toxicity.

Also try, if possible, to make a Mental Comparison to what is said to be Hazardous to what You are doing.

How do Exposure Levels compare to say someone who works at a Countertop Shop cutting Stone countertops to a person who used a Clearo with a Silica wick for 6 Months?

Or a Person who Works with Drywall 5 Days a week compared to a Home Owner who redoes there back Bedroom?

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Hi, I used silica wicks for about 8 month when I first got into vaping a long time ago. Recently I read about some of the dangers of silica and I wonder how much risk I exposed myself to.

It's kinda late to be worrying about something you can't do a thing about unless you have access to a time machine.

if I gave you proof that silica wicks are in fact hazardous to your health and a month from now you are diagnosed with a lung disease, the chances of your doctor being able to cure you (just because you told him it was the silica wicks that caused your problem) is pretty much slim to none.

It's like worrying about that time when you were 5 years old you drank bleach.

What can you do about it now? Not a thing.
If you suffer from it when you are 60, what can you do about it? Nothing.

Relax.

Silica wicks tastes like crap so you won't likely ever use it again, so that's a positive note.

 

[damachine]

How do Exposure Levels compare to say someone who works at a Countertop Shop cutting Stone countertops to a person who used a Clearo with a Silica wick for 6 Months?

Or a Person who Works with Drywall 5 Days a week compared to a Home Owner who redoes there back Bedroom?

Don't they wear respirators?

 

[damachine]

"Amorphous Silica: Multiple studies have found amorphous silica to be biologically inert when ingested and inhaled, with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers (which have been designated as carcinogens by the National Toxicology Program), which are hazardous due to their very small size and their high length to width aspect ratio. Because of this inertness, the US Food and Drug Administration permits the use of amorphous silica (not fiberglass or ceramic fibers!) in food and medicine. "

Thanks. I actually saw this in your old post yesterday. Guess I'm a little confused with the "with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers" part. It seems to say amorphous silica is biologically inert EXCEPT extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers, which seems to imply that fiberglass and ceramic fibers are a subset of amorphous silica, and they are dangerous due to their fiber-like shape (length to width ratio), which is precisely the shape of wicking materials (as opposed to particles like sand dust).

 

[zoiDman]

Don't they wear respirators?

Lots of Variations of what is considered a Respirator.

Everything from an el-Cheapo Harbor Freight Dust Mask to a Full Blown Self-Enclosed Full Face Enclosure. And any Respirator is only as good as How Much it is used. And Don't help much when you are eating Lunch in the Breakroom. Or working in the Office next to the Shop.

The Point Is the Amount of Possible Exposure you could have received is Very Small. So I really Wouldn't let it Worry You too much.

And when you Read about something that is Said to be Hazardous, try to put it into Perspective to what You May or May Not have Experienced.

 

[MacTechVpr]

There are two kinds of silica--amorphous and crystalline. The amorphous silica, still used in vaping (mostly in initially in cigalikes), is perfectly safe and OK to be used as a wick. The dangerous kind is the crystalline silica--the kind that causes silicosis.

The discussion about safe and unsafe silica started after Aspire introduced a mystery "ceramic" wick (ca 2014) that crumbled to dust when touched (Busardo showed it in his video). There was a suspicion that those tiny, respirable fiberglass particles (under 5µ) could get into our lungs. This chart made by @Boden shows the size of amorphous alumina/silica fiber used in silica rope (22-32µ)--the safe kind--in comparison to the unsafe, crystalline silica fibers.

http://srs.unm.edu/industrial-hygiene/media/docs/silica.pdf (sorry, the link doesn't work anymore, I'm copying and pasting from my old posts )

"Amorphous Silica: Multiple studies have found amorphous silica to be biologically inert when ingested and inhaled, with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers (which have been designated as carcinogens by the National Toxicology Program), which are hazardous due to their very small size and their high length to width aspect ratio. Because of this inertness, the US Food and Drug Administration permits the use of amorphous silica (not fiberglass or ceramic fibers!) in food and medicine. "

Great stuff Your full 2015 post here #3767 which includes some of the mentioned links/data.

I recall some of the early ceramic mat wicks you mention and concerns about them. Vaped them and wrote about it myself. But I disagree on the reference to equivalence of fiberglass and ceramic fiber…

"Because of this inertness, the US Food and Drug Administration permits the use of amorphous silica (not fiberglass or ceramic fibers!) in food and medicine.

Nextel™ (Ready-X-Wick) ceramic is also a patented alumina/amorphous silica matrix fiber in a weave far more stable and durable than any silica rope I've encountered. The manufacturer 3M also produces conventional silica insulation in similar weaves with improved although lesser max heat specs than Nextel.

I am taste and irritant sensitive. Never found silica to be particularly true to flavor and rather irritating. Top wicks shredded convincingly in Protank heads, the countless I've built and evaluated. However, 3M's ceramic is absolutely totally neutral to flavor and I've never found it irritating in operation. Perhaps why so beloved at one time by so many of ECF's earliest squonking connoisseurs.

It's really a pity the lack of knowledge about amorphous silica and RxW has seen this community shy away from this remarkable wicking material. It's not exactly easy to properly prep for the producer; but for vaping, the rewards are worth the modicum of expense (as both cleaner and more durable). It's by far the main reason I'm able to keep so many devices in consistently enjoyable operation with a minimum of fuss.

Thanks Katya for the inspiration, a few thoughts I hope may encourage some of you.

Good luck.

 

[Katya]

Great stuff Your full 2015 post here #3767 which includes some of the mentioned links/data.

I recall some of the early ceramic mat wicks you mention and concerns about them. Vaped them and wrote about it myself.

Right. We started searching for information about that material after Rip Tripper and Phil Busardo took those coils apart.



I and many others contacted Aspire and received a lot of conflicting information. The Swiss lab report (originally posted on their website, subsequently removed) identified that paper as "fiberglass paper." The fur started to fly. Aspire coil users were reporting black ash and dust in their eliquids. Well, Aspire switched to cotton and we'll probably never know what exactly was used in those coils.

Nextel™ (Ready-X-Wick) ceramic is also a patented amorphous silica fiber in a weave far more stable and durable than any silica rope I've encountered. The manufacturer 3M also produces conventional silica insulation in similar weaves with improved although lesser max heat specs than Nextel.

I am taste and irritant sensitive. Never found silica to be particularly true to flavor and rather irritating. Top wicks shredded convincingly in Protank heads, the countless I've built and evaluated. However, 3M's ceramic is absolutely totally neutral to flavor and I've never found it irritating in operation. Perhaps why so beloved at one time by so many of ECF's earliest squonking connoisseurs.

It's really a pity the lack of knowledge about amorphous silica and RxW has seen this community shy away from this remarkable wicking material. It's not exactly easy to properly prep for the producer; but for vaping, the rewards are worth the modicum of expense (as both cleaner and more durable). It's by far the main reason I'm able to keep so many devices in consistently enjoyable operation with a minimum of fuss.

Thanks Katya for the inspiration, a few thoughts I hope will encourage some of you.

As you perhaps know, I have never had any issues with Ready-X-Wick and I trust your judgment. I tried it, but found it difficult to work with. I prefer cotton and rayon to rope-shaped wicks myself.

 

[Katya]

Thanks. I actually saw this in your old post yesterday. Guess I'm a little confused with the "with the exception of extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers" part. It seems to say amorphous silica is biologically inert EXCEPT extruded fiberglass and ceramic fibers, which seems to imply that fiberglass and ceramic fibers are a subset of amorphous silica, and they are dangerous due to their fiber-like shape (length to width ratio), which is precisely the shape of wicking materials (as opposed to particles like sand dust).

Hey, I'm confused too. I'm not a materials engineer. That info was taken from a site I can't even access anymore and it says what it says--it had nothing to do with vaping and wicking materials, so take it for what it is.

I don't know what silica wicks you've been using, but the "fiberglass paper" that caused all that commotion 6 years ago is long gone. Silica rope and Ready-X-Wick are fine. There are also various "ceramic coils" on the market nowadays, but I know very little about them--I'm pretty sure they are perfectly safe as well.

 

[damachine]

I don't know what silica wicks you've been using, but the "fiberglass paper" that caused all that commotion 6 years ago is long gone. Silica rope and Ready-X-Wick are fine. There are also various "ceramic coils" on the market nowadays, but I know very little about them--I'm pretty sure they are perfectly safe as well.

I mostly used clearomizers (vivi nova) back in the days. Based on my reading there is a distinction between amorphous silica and crystalline, and it's the latter that's dangerous. It seems most silica wicks back in the days are amorphous based on a few posts I've seen. But how do we know this? Has someone ever lab tested them?

BTW, what about cotton (which is my primary wicking material now). Is cotton safe?

Thanks

 

[Katya]

I mostly used clearomizers (vivi nova) back in the days. Based on my reading there is a distinction between amorphous silica and crystalline, and it's the latter that's dangerous. It seems most silica wicks back in the days are amorphous based on a few posts I've seen. But how do we know this? Has someone ever lab tested them?

I told you all i know. Silica rope (amorphous silica) was used in vaping exclusively from the very beginning. Vapers started to search for new materials when RBAs became popular, as cotton was easier to work with for most. But some wrapped the coils around silica rope wicks. The great advantage of silica rope is its heat resistance--it doesn't burn.

BTW, what about cotton (which is my primary wicking material now). Is cotton safe?

As far as I know, it's perfectly safe (just don't burn it). I use organic cotton and rayon.

 

[damachine]

Thanks.
I guess I shouldn't be too paranoid since we probably breath in some crystalline silica through ambient air anyway (construction, road dust, playground, etc).

 

[Katya]

Thanks.
I guess I shouldn't be too paranoid since we probably breath in some crystalline silica through ambient air anyway (construction, road dust, playground, etc).

Walks on the beach...

 

[Mordacai]

I think that you'd be surprised how far it could be carried in the air as fine particulate matter.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks.
I guess I shouldn't be too paranoid since we probably breath in some crystalline silica through ambient air anyway (construction, road dust, playground, etc).

You said a mouthful da.

Good luck.