Simon Mall's Private Property Policy

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Mclassy

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Nov 10, 2009
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Tacoma, WA
My boyfriend and I went to the Tacoma Mall in Washington State today to do a bit of window shopping and simple browsing. I made a quick stop to Gene Juarez to ask a question about gift certificates and went on my way.
We came up to the Smoking Everywhere Kiosk and asked the gentleman that was working there if Smoking Everywhere had any plans to remove itself from Washington as they have already done so in our neighboring state of Oregon. He enthusiastically reassured us that Smoking Everywhere had no intentions of not selling them here. At that point he offered us a demonstration of their product. My boyfriend and I politely declined and went on our way.
I began to discretely vape my e-cig by means of covering the LED and holding the vapor when a Mall Cop, that ironically had many similarities to Paul Blart, told me that I could not smoke in the Mall. My boyfriend patently told him that it was an electronic cigarette and that we weren't smoking. The mall cop responded with "Yeah, I know what they are and they are not allowed." :ohmy: Say what?
I can tolerate blatant ignorance on the product but to have knowledge of them and still refuse them is inconceivable. I at that point asked if I would be allowed to use the nicotine gum, patch, or even Snus he informed me that it would be fine. I then asked why this policy is in effect if there is someone selling them right here in the mall advertising the legality of them and still be refused to use them, even discretely. He was extremely nervous and referred us to the mall information booth.
The lady at the information booth handed us a complaint form and we asked to speak to the mall manager. The management office was located a bit away and we had to go outside to find it. We managed to speak to someone that was head of marketing for the mall as the rest of the management were on a conference call in another room.
She informed us that it was Mall Policy that Electronic cigarettes are not allowed in the mall for the appearance of smoking. We tried to explain the health benefits and reinforcing the legality of these devices. She told me there were designated smoking areas located outside the building and to use our devices there. :blink:
She said that since the mall is private property that it has the right to make up the rules and patrons must respect the rules. This includes the selling of gang affiliation products but not the wearing of gang affiliation attire in the mall, maintaining a no cussing policy though there is freedom of speech.
I was dumbfounded by this as I felt I was being discriminated against for the appearance of cigarettes. I wanted to share this story with everyone here and possibly get suggestions on how to properly handle this. At this point I will not go to the Tacoma mall again and it seems that this policy is in effect for all Simon malls. (300 malls)
 

potholerepairman

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You have to ask yourself how stealth was the vaping if the mall cop caught you.Its private property so they set the rules and most people don't want to see vaping in the mall.I think the majority of vapers want to vape everywhere they go but that does not seem likely to me.With that said I will not go to a bar that doesn't allow smoking/vaping, so vote with your feet.
 

Mclassy

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The Marketing lady said that the Smoking Everywhere people had a contract that they can use the Electronic cigarette for demonstration purposes only but could not vape at the kiosk without a customer present.

~ As far as my stealth vaping went when he approached me I was in mid inhale. So at that point there would be no vapor. I make a point to not draw attention to myself in public places mainly because I spend more time explaining what it is and how it works that I run out of time to do what I intended to do at the beginning.
 

SimpleSins

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Jul 18, 2010
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God I hate stupidity! So in effect it IS OK for you to vape at the kiosk, just nowhere else. Just plain stupid. I'd have let the Marketing lady know how illogical & stupid her response or "policy" was.

But I think they have that policy in other regards, too, though. For instance, they may have a bar/lounge, but that doesn't mean you can walk through the mall drinking a six pack. You have to stealth drink.
 

Mclassy

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I was more frustrated that the only place i could vape was in the dedicated smoking area outside with cigarette smokers. So in essence it is putting an alcoholic in a bar and saying you can drink your root beer here because it has "beer" in the name and has the appearance of an alcoholic beverage. I feel if we let certain company's discriminate against this that they need to be fair and discriminate against the nicotrol inhaler too. They have the knowledge and still choose to shun us. I wont set foot into a simon mall again until their policy is changed.
 

MrsJaaxx

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Feb 16, 2009
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I know a lot of people say "don't vape where you can't smoke," or "always ask first" but because I am perfectly capable of inhaling, holding, and then not exhaling any vapor at all. If that's what I'm going to do, I don't think I should have to ask anymore than anyone asks whether they can suck on a pen. (Though if they asked me to stop, I'd just say okay)

I think the mall cop only knew what you were doing BECAUSE of the kiosk. He was LOOKING for people using e-cigs. Otherwise, if you were stealthing stealthily, he'd not have said anything and just thought you had a pen or something in your mouth.
 

Kevin Freeheart

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Feb 20, 2010
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Live Free Or Die
I'm an avid supporter of private property rights.

I'm also an avid supporter of market activism. Thank you for taking the time to, rather than just sit and complain, take your issue up with the management! They might have a stupid policy, but at least they know that you have a problem with it.

I hope vapers in that area would boycott them and let them know why they're losing that segment of their business.
 

Jeremy386

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Nov 8, 2009
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Policies that that are there to make the shopping experiance as enjoyable as possible for the largest number of people. Its all about perception. I manage a sporting goods store in CA, I vape in the store before and after buisness hours, but never during buisness hours just to not make my customers feel uncomfortable. I would also ask a person vaping in my store to not for the same reason.
 

Kevin Freeheart

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Feb 20, 2010
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Live Free Or Die
I manage a sporting goods store in CA, I vape in the store before and after buisness hours, but never during buisness hours just to not make my customers feel uncomfortable. I would also ask a person vaping in my store to not for the same reason.

As more and more people vape, what signals are you watching for to indicate that this policy is not having it's effect? I mean, if nobody vapes and you try to put the kibosh on those that do, how will you ever know if you can relax that policy?
 

deadheadharry

Senior Member
Aug 19, 2010
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USA
As stated, all issues are issues of Property rights... Don't like it? Build your own mall! :D

Although stupid in this case, it is what it is. Sadly, even the "property rights" they claim to have aren't TRUE property rights... Just privileges that they have because the mall, just like you and I, still pay rent to the queen/dictator/state... The illusion is here.
 

JohnReagan

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Sep 1, 2010
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The Marketing lady said that the Smoking Everywhere people had a contract that they can use the Electronic cigarette for demonstration purposes only but could not vape at the kiosk without a customer present.

~ As far as my stealth vaping went when he approached me I was in mid inhale. So at that point there would be no vapor. I make a point to not draw attention to myself in public places mainly because I spend more time explaining what it is and how it works that I run out of time to do what I intended to do at the beginning.

Amazing. However, good thorough work in going straight to the source Mclassy!
 

lexgar

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Oct 30, 2009
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Greater LA, SoCal
I had a similar experience here in SoCal at the Sherman Oaks Galleria which is not so much a Mall, but open sky shopping area with offices attached.

A friend's band was playing outside in a plaza and I was sitting at a table vaping. I was apparently pointed out by the management person in charge of overseeing the music event and a security guard came to me and told me that there was not smoking. As per usual, I explained that it was an e-cig-no smoke, no fire etc. He said that he did not care and that it was private property so I could just leave.

Although I usually would have gone to management directly and asked to see the written policy, I was just not in the mood. I will never go there again.

This was the first time in my life that "We reserve the right to refuse service..." has ever been used on me. What offended was the directness of the "Get the f$#@ out"
 
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