single or dual 18650 for first mech mod?

[jesuslizard36]

Hey everyone. First post ever, hope this is an appropriate place to post and someone might be able to help with my rather newb question.

I have some spare change im spending on fast tech and am having a hard time deciding how best to spend it. I have a few RDA'S im eyeing up but im also keen to get my first mech mod. iv got 30 US to spend and 8 of that is going on some premade coils i want so with the rest i could get a cherry bomber which im real keen for but that means no RDA's. which kind of matters because i don't own any RDA's which large enough post holes for the coils im getting. I have a 13 heavens 9 hells RDA on the way from Focalecig but it's taking weeks to arrive so i don't have it yet and am hoping it's not lost.

or i could get a clt v3 which i really want plus a cheap 18650 mech mod. but im just worried i wont be able to get enough out of a single 18650 to please me. i own a sigeli 150tc and vape at 70-120 whats most the time so i want a good amount of power from my mech.

Sorry for the rambling. I guess my question is how much power can i expect from either a single or dual 18650 mech mod in terms of wattage. cheers

 

[vape0351]

I really only have experience with single cell designs in mechs, but I will say that I've heard bad things about the cherry bomber, although I think that might have more to do with people improperly marrying their batteries than any actual design flaws

 

[XeniaVaper]

the amount of power you can get from a mech, dual or single battery will depend upon the battery used in the mod. Read about ohms law. This question kinda implies that you are not familiar with the operation of a mechanical mod, and as such should not be using one. Safety first and all. These can be dangerous devices when misused, and we don't want you to view yourself up. I would say answer that question yourself before you get one.
like I said, read about ohms law. @Mooch has provided battery safety information in his blog, read through that as well.
oh, almost forgot, check out @Baditude as well

 

[XeniaVaper]

by the way, why do you want a mech?
the VW is a superior setup,imo. You can not adjust output on your mech device, you must build a new coil, which is going to be a pain to dial in your vape, or if you use different juices. The vapor is going to start off strong, and get weaker, and cooler as the battery goes down, as opposed to being constant with a regulated device. And it will be much less forgiving in your coil builds,. And, for me, at least the mech was much more finicky than VW. The only benefit is that it theoretically is going to be more durable, but not in my experience

 

[jesuslizard36]

you are correct. I don't know much about them and i do intend to learn more before i use them. Have already started reading a bit about it. just asking these questions to get some feedback and information from people like yourself for example. Don't worry i wont just slam a battery in mech mod attach an atty and go gun ho

Good question. I just love vaping and love it the more i learn about it. I want to become more versed in all aspects of it. I have a great VW device and a couple of great 3rd and 4th gen sub ohm tanks that i love. so technically i don't really need to buy anything more. but there's a lot more to the vape world i want to discover and learn about. I wanna more RDA's and VW and eventually mech mods. some because they look cool, some because they look practical.

Btw i just ended up buying the clt v3 and some coils because im broke as ..... but i will dip my toes in the mech mod world at some point. someone at my local vape shop did say that these days mech mods aren't as necessary with the advancements made in vw devices. but i like the look of some of these things to. i would really like a nice tubular one. nice change from a box.

anyway. thanks for your feedback.

 

[Wruff]

On a mech you are at the mercy of battery drain. Your vape is only as strong as the charge on your battery, which diminishes with every draw. You'll be changing out batteries like no one's business.
On a regulated mod though the power is consistent throughout the life of the battery charge.
On a mech the only way you can change your vape intensity is to build different coils. On a regulated you just press the +/- button.
On a mech you're far more likely to blow off your face, especially not really knowing what you are doing... and then you draw negative attention to vaping because you blew your face off using a mech mod.

Why again do you want a mech mod? 'Cause they look sorta cool?

Careful you don't end up the topic of one of those "Mech mod explodes in man's face" threads that keep popping up around here.

Good luck

 

[JMarca]

Please don't take this the wrong way but you're relatively new, you want unregulated high power and you plan to buy something cheap from China.

I'm not trying to be a snob and I'm not trying to tell you what to do but this is a plan that could be disastrous. Just curious, any particular reason you want unregulated? You can get big clouds with regulated mods that come packed with protection. You also don't need to buy a 10-20 dollar mod on fasttech it's Black Friday tell me more about what you like and I could try to point you to a great mod at a very decent price that'll last you alot longer!

 

[Hans Wermhat]

With the pending FDA cluster looming, I am of the opinion that everyone who wants to continue vaping should learn how to SAFELY use a mech. They are dangerous, but they may be the best bet for the uncertain future. First thing you need is an ohm meter. I would check the resistance on those pre-made coils before I used them. And IMHO, mechs are not for sub-tanks. Use RDA's or RBA's on them. Don't build below .5ohms until you know what you are doing, and never build below .25 ohms on a single or series battery mod. Use a 30A CDR battery ONLY (Sony VTC3, VTC4, LG HB6). Keep your threads clean. Check you build and resistance every time you re-wick to make sure nothing is going wrong. Then check the resistance again before you fire it up. Make sure the wraps on your batteries are in good shape every time you put one in.

That CLT you bought looks nice. I have the V2 and it's the best fog machine I own. You should really look into wrapping your own coils for it. It's not hard at all and it will save you some $.

 

[JMarca]

With the pending FDA cluster looming, I am of the opinion that everyone who wants to continue vaping should learn how to SAFELY use a mech. They are dangerous, but they may be the best bet for the uncertain future. First thing you need is an ohm meter. I would check the resistance on those pre-made coils before I used them. And IMHO, mechs are not for sub-tanks. Use RDA's or RBA's on them. Don't build below .5ohms until you know what you are doing, and never build below .25 ohms on a single or series battery mod. Use a 30A CDR battery ONLY (Sony VTC3, VTC4, LG HB6). Keep your threads clean. Check you build and resistance every time you re-wick to make sure nothing is going wrong. Then check the resistance again before you fire it up. Make sure the wraps on your batteries are in good shape every time you put one in.

That CLT you bought looks nice. I have the V2 and it's the best fog machine I own. You should really look into wrapping your own coils for it. It's not hard at all and it will save you some $.

There's so much wrong information in this comment I don't even know where to begin...

First off, Mods aren't going anywhere deeming regulations or not, they can be sold off as flashlights if they wanted to.

Second, there are no issues with all subtanks and mechs it's just a small percentage of hybrid mechs where the top or bottom caps were not properly isolated and made a short (o.5%) of all mechs have this issue, please stop spreading the non-sense we have enough misinformation.

Over more... NO not everyone should learn to use a mech especially the first week they start vaping! There is TONS more important research to be done.
Recommending that someone learn to use a mech before getting their feet wet on a protected mod is like recommending someone to not put on a bullet proof vest on before a gun fight simply because it would slow them down.

Then people wonder why they end up on the 5 oclock news and want to sue a small mom and pop vape shop because they didn't know what the heck they were doing and felt they were wronged. No wonder no one wants to sell mechs anymore.

 

[Wruff]

I am of the opinion that everyone who wants to continue vaping should learn how to SAFELY use a mech. They are dangerous, but they may be the best bet for the uncertain future.

Ugh. Mech's are certainly NOT the "best bet" for vaping's future. To the contrary..
Mech mods are the greatest threat to vaping today, providing fuel for the anti-vaping crowd every time someone blows off their face using one.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

There's so much wrong information in this comment I don't even know where to begin...

1st:If the deeming regs go through as currently written, no e-cig related devices manufactured after 2007 will be available for sale legally in the US. I would like to think they will be re-branded and sold as flashlight batteries, and normally post with an optimistic view, but I'm a pragmatist. I think everyone needs to plan for a dark future. Even if/when we find loopholes, there will be a dark time when the laws take effect. What happens when someone's regulated mod dies and they don't have a back-up? A mech in a drawer is just smart planning.

2nd: Would you put a .2 ohm TFV4 quad coil on a mech? If so, hybrid or not, you are the one who will end up on the news. All it takes is one bad coil that shorts out, and BOOM!

Overmore: The OP isn't a complete newb. Already has experience building on RDA's.The OP already stated knows the risks and is doing the research. Already has a regulated mod and is accustomed to sub-ohming. It's not the 1st week.

Mech mods are the greatest threat to vaping today,

Mechs in the hands of the ignorant are certanly a problem. But in the hands of someone who knows how to use them safely, they are a nearly indestructible , reliable power source that will last forever if properly maintained.

Lastly: Stop fearmongering. The folks who are trying to legislate us out of existence scan this site and others like it looking for things like that to quote and say "SEE!!! EVEN THE VAPERS KNOW THEY ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDERN!!!!!" Instead of just telling other grown adults what NOT to do, how about helping to educate them on how to do it properly?

 

[suprtrkr]

You're not going get 120 watts out of a mech safely, no matter what you do; that'd take a coil below .15 ohms, and it's like getting on your knees and praying for catastrophe.

 

[jesuslizard36]

I think the reasons i gave above were pretty reasonable to be honest. I like the variety of design plus i want to become proficient in everything vaping it's something that makes me happy and is important to me. I think i explained it pretty well.i find been quoted as "cause they sorta look cool" as a bit condescending to be honest. why does everyone here buy half the .... they own?. but no big deal.

I am well aware of the dangers of mech mods. I am aware that i know pretty much nothing about them. As i said, i intend to learn more about them before i actually use one and fire them up. I just made this thread because im new to EFC and felt like posting something,anything. I put a question out there and a few people offered some interesting information and tips on what to learn and where to find some valuable resources.so thank you to everyone for has been helpful. that's all i want. nothing wrong in giving me tips and advice. iv already learned something from this thread so mission accomplished i guess

I think people are making assumptions that because im posted something which clearly shows my ignorance on the topic that im not going to learn more about them or that im just going to fire one up with the same level of knowledge i have more, or that i wont educate myself anymore. No, i joined EFC last night and felt like posting something so i posted about something i know nothing about so i could get some information from real people rather then just an article or youtube video. just as a way to interact with the community. I could have learned anything iv learned today through google and spared looking ignorant. but as i said i wanted to interact with real people and i would rather be honest in my knowledge then play off knowing more then i do to spare my ego.

 

[jesuslizard36]

1st:If the deeming regs go through as currently written, no e-cig related devices manufactured after 2007 will be available for sale legally in the US. I would like to think they will be re-branded and sold as flashlight batteries, and normally post with an optimistic view, but I'm a pragmatist. I think everyone needs to plan for a dark future. Even if/when we find loopholes, there will be a dark time when the laws take effect. What happens when someone's regulated mod dies and they don't have a back-up? A mech in a drawer is just smart planning.

2nd: Would you put a .2 ohm TFV4 quad coil on a mech? If so, hybrid or not, you are the one who will end up on the news. All it takes is one bad coil that shorts out, and BOOM!

Overmore: The OP isn't a complete newb. Already has experience building on RDA's.The OP already stated knows the risks and is doing the research. Already has a regulated mod and is accustomed to sub-ohming. It's not the 1st week.


Mechs in the hands of the ignorant are certanly a problem. But in the hands of someone who knows how to use them safely, they are a nearly indestructible , reliable power source that will last forever if properly maintained.

Lastly: Stop fearmongering. The folks who are trying to legislate us out of existence scan this site and others like it looking for things like that to quote and say "SEE!!! EVEN THE VAPERS KNOW THEY ARE ENDANGERING OUR CHILDERN!!!!!" Instead of just telling other grown adults what NOT to do, how about helping to educate them on how to do it properly?

Thanks for the information that's all i wanted. i still intend to actually learn the topics required more.Such as ohms law and battery safety etc. i just wanted to talk to and interact with people who already know about the subject.

 

[Susan~S]

Hello and welcome to the forum @opiumfiend. Glad to have you here!

When using a mechanical and considering how low you can build you need to give yourself some headroom. I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20A battery (like the Samsung 25r), that would be 10A. This Ohm's Law Calculator tells me that a 0.4Ω build is as low as I would want to use.

The reason that I place a 50% limit is because as a battery ages the mAh of the battery degrades, as the mAh degrades so does the batteries c rating (amp limit). So down the road, a 20A battery may only be a 10A battery."

With a 30A battery (like the LG HB6), 0.28Ω is the lowest I would build.

======

I highly recommend you spend some time with @Baditude & @Mooch (two of our resident battery/safety experts) and visit their blogs. When using a mechanical mod you will be 100% in control of your own safety (and others around you). Make sure you purchase an ohm reader and a voltmeter or DMM so you can measure your builds, check for shorts and measure the remaining charge on your batteries.

Here are links to some of Mooch's blogs:

• No matter what is printed on the battery wrapper: There are no 18650 batteries with a genuine rating over 30A!
• Links to all his battery tests to date: List of My Battery Tests | Mooch's Blog
• Picking a Safe Battery to Vape With: Table of 18650 Battery Safety Grades | Mooch's Blog

And several links to Baditude's Blog - Table of Contents: The blogs that address battery safety, Ohm's Law, CDR (continuous discharge rating/Amps) and how they all work together are detailed below:

BATTERIES

Battery Basics for Mods - The Ultimate Battery Guide
* Another essential read to understand which batteries are safe to use in mechanical and regulated mods. Includes a frequently updated list of recommended safe-chemistry, high-drain batteries with their specifications.

Purple Efest Batteries not as Advertised
* A cautionary blog that reveals that the purple Efest batteries may not have the specifications advertised. Also includes a commentary on "continuous discharge ratings" vs "pulse discharge ratings" of battery specs.

OHM'S LAW

Ohm's Law Explained for Vapers
* My attempt at explaining Ohm's Law in layman terms and how it relates to vaping.

Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations
* As simple as it is to use, some people have a tough time grasping the concept. Warning: Includes graphic photos of mod explosions.

MECHANICAL MODS & REBUILDABLES

Information Resources for Your First RBA
* An essential read and reference guide for someone new to rebuilding coils. Includes a multitude of useful links on battery safety, mod safety, coil meters, coil building, and the differences in the three types of RBA's.

Inexpensive Mechanical Mod/RDA Setup
* A response to the frequently asked question on how to get into rebuildable atomizers with a mechanical mod inexpensively. Includes a list of commonly used tools and supplies for rebuilding and where to find them.

BATTERIES - WHERE TO BUY

Only buy batteries from a reputable supplier (not ebay or Amazon) as there are many counterfeit batteries being sold. Here are several reputable battery suppliers in the US.

• RTD Vapor
• Illumination Supply
• Orbtronics
• IMR Batteries
• Liion Wholesale

 

[Wruff]

Mechs in the hands of the ignorant are certanly a problem. But in the hands of someone who knows how to use them safely, they are a nearly indestructible , reliable power source that will last forever if properly maintained.

"Mechs in the hands of the ignorant.."
I'm so tired of hearing this same old tired response every single time a mech mod blows up in someone's face.
Mech mod apologists.
And I don't care that you and some others apparently believe your mech mods are indestructible. That's bull anyway 'cause I dropped my mech 1 foot out the car door onto the pavement and it dented the tube around the firing button thereby rendering the mod useless. My regulated mods have taken a lot more punishment than my mech's ever did, and they keep on tickin'.

This is a public safety issue. It is the industry that needs to step up and take responsibility for what they're selling to the public so that people without sufficient knowledge of electronics and Ω's law (99% of the population) are no longer unknowingly putting themselves in grave danger by vaping.
At this increasing rate of mech related injuries then mech's will ruin it for us all, if they haven't already. And with the mech apologists enabling and even encouraging utterly unqualified others to use mech's (I see it around here all the time) then more and more people are unknowingly putting themselves in grave danger. And telling them "practice battery safety, and learn ohm's law dude." is certainly not sufficient. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Lastly: Stop fearmongering. The folks who are trying to legislate us out of existence scan this site and others like it looking for things like that to quote and say.."...

No. They see stories about mech mod users blowing their faces off with "electronic cigarettes" and then legislate to ban ALL "electronic cigarettes" and then it's bye bye mech mods and everything else too. They make no distinction between mech or regulated. It's all "e-cigs" to them.

You got it backwards. The threat to vaping is not this forum post. The threat to vaping is people blowing their faces off with mech mod's. Those videos of people lying disfigured and paralyzed in hospital beds is all the fear-mongering ammunition they require to ruin vaping for everyone.

 

[Bubsmash]

If you are new to mech mods I would honestly just stick with 1 for now. You also should know a bit about Ohms law and how electrical currents work. Why do I say this? Well I will tell you why. Most all these batteries we are putting into our devices are IMR Lipo batteries. Allot of people out there do not even think twice about A charging there IMR Lipos B They were not so much even explained the risks of them when they bought there device. C Most vape shops out there even they have no clue what so ever just how dangerous they CAN become IF not handled properly.
I have learned allot about Lipos just through being around the Remote Control Scene. When you put two Lipo batteries directly on top of one another you are now turning two single cell Lipos into a two cell Lipo. Now when you do this no one really knows just how much of a draw is coming out of which battery. Lipos are not like a regular Nickel cad batteries they can and WILL become extremely un stable if they do not have extremely close power between the two batteries which is EXACTLY where these problems come from. Just like it is a VERY good practice to keep a very close eye on these devices while charging them.
If you still do not believe me look up on You tube: Lipo fire in garage What it all comes down to is iresponsible handling as well as people just not caring about these dangers. With proper precauction on your part as well as some research into this on your part you should be more than fine but know the risks.

 

[Mooch]

If you are new to mech mods I would honestly just stick with 1 for now. You also should know a bit about Ohms law and how electrical currents work. Why do I say this? Well I will tell you why. Most all these batteries we are putting into our devices are IMR Lipo batteries. Allot of people out there do not even think twice about A charging there IMR Lipos B They were not so much even explained the risks of them when they bought there device. C Most vape shops out there even they have no clue what so ever just how dangerous they CAN become IF not handled properly.
I have learned allot about Lipos just through being around the Remote Control Scene. When you put two Lipo batteries directly on top of one another you are now turning two single cell Lipos into a two cell Lipo. Now when you do this no one really knows just how much of a draw is coming out of which battery. Lipos are not like a regular Nickel cad batteries they can and WILL become extremely un stable if they do not have extremely close power between the two batteries which is EXACTLY where these problems come from. Just like it is a VERY good practice to keep a very close eye on these devices while charging them.
If you still do not believe me look up on You tube: Lipo fire in garage What it all comes down to is iresponsible handling as well as people just not caring about these dangers. With proper precauction on your part as well as some research into this on your part you should be more than fine but know the risks.

Just a couple of thoughts....

The batteries we use are all Li-Ion but LiPo's are a particular combination of Li-Ion battery chemistry (ICR, LCO, or "lithium-cobalt, all the same thing) and shape/size. Typically they are in pouch format. This is different from the IMR and INR batteries we use for vaping (with an occasional 18650 ICR thrown in).

If you have two batteries in series the current draw from each, or charging current into each, is identical. If they're in parallel then the current from each can be different depending on the internal and connections resistances. This happens in every parallel battery pack that exists and isn't a problem unless one of the batteries ends up being used at well beyond its ratings as a result.

LiPo batteries do have a lower temperature threshold before trouble starts, and the reaction that occurs is a lot more violent, but LiPo's are not an explosion/fireball waiting to happen. I do agree though that we should not charge any of our batteries without being around to make sure all goes ok. Using a good charger is important too.

 

[Bubsmash]

Well that is all I was getting at and with some of these knock off mods I still beg to differ on differences between how much power is being pulled from one battery directly going into the next. Test it out for yourself if you do not believe me. Get a proper voltmeter out and test one battery to the next. I run a Sigelei 150 TC and your right they are not in series they are paralell to one another but I do notice when it comes to charging time the one battery is always a bit more dead than the other and because I have seen with what I have saw first hand I always swap around my batteries every time they are charged so my batteries in turn get close to the same draw. That is the biggest problem out there people just taking crap for granted and not being careful. Same as ones smart phone. YES the make up of the cells and pack I understand are different but that is all that is different. A Lipo is a lipo it does not matter how the pack is made up precauction still has to be taken. Like I say I personally have seen stuff happen and until a person experiences it first hand they either just do not care or they do not know of the possible dangers they can have if they are not handled properly.

 

[jesuslizard36]

You're not going get 120 watts out of a mech safely, no matter what you do; that'd take a coil below .15 ohms, and it's like getting on your knees and praying for catastrophe.

cheers. thats useful to know thank you.