Smok X Cube II 160watt TC Bluetooth $55.9 coupon

Status
Not open for further replies.

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
@Barry Hill indeed there has been some doubt at the Titanium value.

However:
  1. I have temperature tested the Titanium I use, on my Dicodes 2380 which I consider to be very accurate, and confirmed a setting of 0.0035 (350 on the Dicodes) provided an accurate temperature
  2. The smok @ 0.0035 is consistently requiring a higher temperature to achieve the same subjective vape than the Dicodes and SXK mods @ 0.0035 - so even if this is the wrong TCR for the wire, the vape should still be the same between two mods at the same setting.
    1. But the Smok is consistently requiring a higher temp to provide the same vape.

I will really try and do a proper test of the Smok by tomorrow. I know I've said that, what? five times already :) But I have confidence this time.

In the meantime, FYI here is my measuring my ZiVipf Titanium against TCR settings on the Dicodes:



That was a dry coil test, which I believe explains why the Dicodes - known to be a super accurate TC mod - still overshoots on repeated presses of fire. Though I have not yet verified that with a wet coil in the Dicodes. In any case the ongoing temp is accurate, it just shoots over for a fraction of a second when fire is repeatedly pressed, released and immediately re-pressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlaskaVaper

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
You absolutely must use Titanium 1 - Titanium 2 is not considered safe to vape. Check out this thread for lots more info:
Titanium wire, vaping and safety

And it is Titanium 1 that I have measured at 0.0035 - despite what those figures might indicate. The figures in literature do vary - I have found figures as high as 0.0042 for Titanium.

But there's one very important thing to note: TCRs are not necessarily flat across the entire temperature range. When a single TCR figure is given, it is usually an average over a large temperature range. It is therefore not guaranteed that the TCR will be that same figure within any given part of the range.

In the case of Titanium this temperature range may be up to 600 or more degrees C - so that figure of 0.0037 is from 20 - 600°C (or similar high number.) But for vaping, we only care about the range 20-250°C, or 300°C max.

Titanium's TCR graph is fairly flat up to a point, and then suddenly changes tangent. I believe that point is around the curie point, which I seem to remember is around 350°C-400°C.

There's more info and discussion on this in this thread:
TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

in particular looking through the last 15 pages or so for posts by @vapealone . He has put together a Google Spreadsheet with TCR data gathered from the web, for various wires. On this he has plotted graphs, which can be used to see the TCR at different points in the range. Using that data, we might find that the TCR for the whole Titanium temp range is 0.0037 or similar. But we only care about 20-300°C.

His data comes from published data sheets on Titanium Grade 1. He doesn't use a single TCR figure, but rather he uses the recorded resistance offsets at given temperature. You will see these charts on many metal/wire datasheets. It will usually show a horizontal, two-row table, showing the resistance factor at 20°C, 200°C, 400°C, 500°C, etc (the increments vary in different data sheets.)

So it will indicate that if the resistance is 1.0Ω at 20°C, it will be 1.XXΩ at 200°C, 1.YY at 400°C, etc. It's that data that vapealone has recorded and then graphed to work out the TCR.

In any case, I am satisfied that the Titanium Grade 1 I am vaping on* has a TCR of 0.0035 for target temperatures of 200°C - 250°C. Or at least, the setting on the Dicodes mod should be 0.0035 - which I am currently assuming to be the same thing! When I next do this testing, I will also be testing using the DNA 200. I hope to find matching figures across both, allowing me to be sure of that result; I can then use that to verify the accuracy of other mods, using the Dicodes+DNA 200 result as my benchmark.

* Or to be precise, one brand of the Titanium Grade I have tested. I have not yet temp tested the other brands, only confirmed - subjectively - that the same temp setting + TCR setting gives a comparable vape. I plan to test more brands soon.

However, unlike Ni200, we can be fairly confident that if one Titanium Grade 1 tests at a certain TCR, so will the others. Titanium Grade 1 appears to have a much narrower specification. Ni200's spec is that it is 99.0 - 99.6% Nickel. 0.6% may seem like a small amount, but I already know from testing that the TCR can vary hugely. The expected single TCR figure for Ni200, in our vaping range, is 0.006. I have Ni200 that matches that, and I also have Ni200 which needs a TCR around 0.0045 - and which therefore needs temperature offsets on any Ni200 mod that doesn't allow modifying the TCR! Such as the DNA 40. It's good quality wire, within specification, it's just the spec is wide enough to vary the TCR quite significantly.

My point being that this appears not to be the case with Titanum. The spec is, I believe, narrow enough that if one brand of Titanium Grade 1 measures TCR 0.0035 so will all the other Titanium Grade 1s - or certainly very near.
 

Mad Scientist

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 11, 2013
1,359
2,052
Smokestack, PA, USA
Smok have released a new Android App today and that has a selection for Stainless Steel wire but unfortunately it cannot be selected yet as it says not unlocked, Looks like Smok want to nickel and dime us and make us pay for every different wire the penny pinching gits

I get advertising blurbs from them on my iPad. I think they just wanted contact info so they can spam us.
 

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
Smok have released a new Android App today and that has a selection for Stainless Steel wire but unfortunately it cannot be selected yet as it says not unlocked, Looks like Smok want to nickel and dime us and make us pay for every different wire the penny pinching gits

Thanks for the heads up!

They stopped charging for Titanium, so I would be very surprised if they start again now. My guess is it won't work until connected to a mod with the right FW version, the upcoming 1.09. Which I guess is a little late, as I think it was due today.

(Or, if not an actual FW check, they haven't enabled people to activate it - maybe that activation click does a backend check. When I installed the 1.08 FW I had to re-active Titanium via the app even though I'd already paid for it. I think when you do that in the app it connects to their server to enable it. Maybe they are waiting for 1.09 to land before they enable SS and thus let that app button work.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlaskaVaper

AlaskaVaper

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 21, 2015
210
264
89
Cordova, Alaska
You absolutely must use Titanium 1 - Titanium 2 is not considered safe to vape. Check out this thread for lots more info:
Titanium wire, vaping and safety

And it is Titanium 1 that I have measured at 0.0035 - despite what those figures might indicate. The figures in literature do vary - I have found figures as high as 0.0042 for Titanium.

But there's one very important thing to note: TCRs are not necessarily flat across the entire temperature range. When a single TCR figure is given, it is usually an average over a large temperature range. It is therefore not guaranteed that the TCR will be that same figure within any given part of the range.

In the case of Titanium this temperature range may be up to 600 or more degrees C - so that figure of 0.0037 is from 20 - 600°C (or similar high number.) But for vaping, we only care about the range 20-250°C, or 300°C max.

Titanium's TCR graph is fairly flat up to a point, and then suddenly changes tangent. I believe that point is around the curie point, which I seem to remember is around 350°C-400°C.

There's more info and discussion on this in this thread:
TC beyond Ni200: Nickel Purity, Dicodes; Ti, SS, Resistherm NiFe30; Coefficient of Resistance

in particular looking through the last 15 pages or so for posts by @vapealone . He has put together a Google Spreadsheet with TCR data gathered from the web, for various wires. On this he has plotted graphs, which can be used to see the TCR at different points in the range. Using that data, we might find that the TCR for the whole Titanium temp range is 0.0037 or similar. But we only care about 20-300°C.

His data comes from published data sheets on Titanium Grade 1. He doesn't use a single TCR figure, but rather he uses the recorded resistance offsets at given temperature. You will see these charts on many metal/wire datasheets. It will usually show a horizontal, two-row table, showing the resistance factor at 20°C, 200°C, 400°C, 500°C, etc (the increments vary in different data sheets.)

So it will indicate that if the resistance is 1.0Ω at 20°C, it will be 1.XXΩ at 200°C, 1.YY at 400°C, etc. It's that data that vapealone has recorded and then graphed to work out the TCR.

In any case, I am satisfied that the Titanium Grade 1 I am vaping on* has a TCR of 0.0035 for target temperatures of 200°C - 250°C. Or at least, the setting on the Dicodes mod should be 0.0035 - which I am currently assuming to be the same thing! When I next do this testing, I will also be testing using the DNA 200. I hope to find matching figures across both, allowing me to be sure of that result; I can then use that to verify the accuracy of other mods, using the Dicodes+DNA 200 result as my benchmark.

* Or to be precise, one brand of the Titanium Grade I have tested. I have not yet temp tested the other brands, only confirmed - subjectively - that the same temp setting + TCR setting gives a comparable vape. I plan to test more brands soon.

However, unlike Ni200, we can be fairly confident that if one Titanium Grade 1 tests at a certain TCR, so will the others. Titanium Grade 1 appears to have a much narrower specification. Ni200's spec is that it is 99.0 - 99.6% Nickel. 0.6% may seem like a small amount, but I already know from testing that the TCR can vary hugely. The expected single TCR figure for Ni200, in our vaping range, is 0.006. I have Ni200 that matches that, and I also have Ni200 which needs a TCR around 0.0045 - and which therefore needs temperature offsets on any Ni200 mod that doesn't allow modifying the TCR! Such as the DNA 40. It's good quality wire, within specification, it's just the spec is wide enough to vary the TCR quite significantly.

My point being that this appears not to be the case with Titanum. The spec is, I believe, narrow enough that if one brand of Titanium Grade 1 measures TCR 0.0035 so will all the other Titanium Grade 1s - or certainly very near.
Very good info on the consistency of Ti grade 1 specifications. This comparison to Ni variability of composition is another good reason that Ti is a very good wire for TC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBloke

AlaskaVaper

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 21, 2015
210
264
89
Cordova, Alaska
  • Like
Reactions: TheBloke

AlaskaVaper

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 21, 2015
210
264
89
Cordova, Alaska
I just today received my SMOK TFV4 tank. It is the single kit with just the one triple coil head already installed. I have been vaping it on my X-Cube II at 80 watts and I must say it is comparable to most drippers. I am extremely impressed with the performance of this tank and am prepared to say it has instantly become my favorite sub ohm tank. The flavor is stellar and the fog is copious. Fog is not a particular objective but flavor is and with that I am very happy. The airflow and draw is as open as one might want and compares well to the best RDA's I have used. I am looking forward to doing some builds with the several dual coil RDA heads for this tank that are on their way to me from China. I picked these up at 3Fvapes for $9.99 each and since the price was so good I ordered two. I plan to use one for Ti builds and the second one for SS builds. I am really looking forward exploring the potential of this great tank. Finally, Refilling using the hinged top and top fill is a dream come true. I absolutely am loving it. It is a great accompaniment to the X-Cube. It looks like they were made for each other--and I guess they were. Way to go SMOK!
 

Mad Scientist

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 11, 2013
1,359
2,052
Smokestack, PA, USA
I think I've officially given up on this one. Just can't get a truly enjoyable, consistent vape out of it. The temp control hysteresis loop is just too wide and I notice it too much, especially at lower temps. I am running version 1.08 and I doubt I'm going to wait for even 1.09. The Smok guys need to hire an actual engineer to design the software instead of what has to be just a bunch of coders. They might eventually trial and error this thing into something great, but for now, thumbs down.

For those who love it, I wish you well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlaskaVaper

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
Can I charge battery via USB port?

No, it's for FW updates only. You need to charge the batteries in a battery charger (or in another USB-charging mod I suppose.)

I think I've officially given up on this one. Just can't get a truly enjoyable, consistent vape out of it. The temp control hysteresis loop is just too wide and I notice it too much, especially at lower temps. I am running version 1.08 and I doubt I'm going to wait for even 1.09. The Smok guys need to hire an actual engineer to design the software instead of what has to be just a bunch of coders. They might eventually trial and error this thing into something great, but for now, thumbs down.

For those who love it, I wish you well.

Sorry to hear that, I do understand. I still have a feeling that your mod is faulty in some way - we know it was to start with at least. I just don't see the wildly different resistance readings that you've reported.

It's working OK for me, and I appreciate it especially as dual-battery TC mod, as the majority of my other mods are singles.

I set the temp 25°C higher and it vapes Titanium well enough - definitely a smoother vape than my SXKs. I haven't yet got around to trying to remove the need for the offset, nor played with the adjustable ohms. Temperature offsets are no big deal, I have to do that in several of mods which are Ni200 only.

If the stainless steel update 1.09 works it will elevate it to a higher level for me, as I only have four active mods* that can do SS and three of them, the SXKs, are not hugely reliable with it. But based on the terrible results with SS in 1.08, I don't hold out huge hope.

But yes, it's so far definitely more a case of wasted opportunity than it is of successful cutting-edge.


* at least until my pre-made DNA 200 arrives in a couple of weeks, and/or until I finally put my self-made 200 in a proper box!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlaskaVaper
@TheBloke thanks for all the info on Titanium wire looking forward to your test results. I do believe smok could make this a stellar device when they work out all the niggles. I do find the chipset is not that efficient. I was thinking of getting their koopor mini for a out and about device but seeing the IPV D2 is only a few dollars more I may get that instead seeing it has a YiHi chip at least then not going to have the same niggles as would get from the Koopor seeing it is smok
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBloke

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
No worries! I agree the TC is far from the best. But it's also not the worst I've used, and overall I get an OK vape from it.

I have the Kopoor on order from FastTech, I will have it in 10 days or so. There's a thread here for it, check that out and I'll post my findings on it at the time. I do know it has TCR adjustment but only down to 0.004 for some odd reason, but we can hope that Smok might extend this down.

I've also been looking at the D2 and might well get that, I've heard it's a good little budget TC mod.
 
@TheBloke Yeh I have been looking at them both (on fastech) but until smok sort out the XCUBE II Properly (then I will know the Koopor will get decent temp control) I will get the IPV D2 , was going to get an iStick but now dont see the point with these other low price temp control mods coming out. I also have 2 other temp control devices that use is it the Ryan brothers chip in my Wadiea Vaporflask clone and in 3FVapes squonk flask and they seem to have a much more satisfying vape. At least if I get the IPV D2 I will have a device that does great temp control to compare other mods to. Also heard that YiHI chips are more efficient which I think is important especially on a single 18650 device
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBloke

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
Yeah I'd definitely get the D2 vs the iStick. The D2 does Titanium natively so you shouldn't have to mess about with offsets. And Yihi have been in the TC game a while now, so I'd expect it to be a more mature and reliable chip than ELeaf's. Also the D2 has USB FW updating and the iStick does not, and Yihi have shown themselves willing to continue providing updates to older devices.
 

Dconnor

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 10, 2013
1,057
2,511
Las Vegas
Yeah I'd definitely get the D2 vs the iStick. The D2 does Titanium natively so you shouldn't have to mess about with offsets. And Yihi have been in the TC game a while now, so I'd expect it to be a more mature and reliable chip than ELeaf's. Also the D2 has USB FW updating and the iStick does not, and Yihi have shown themselves willing to continue providing updates to older devices.
While I have the IPV D2 and love it, does not come with USB for updating. It used a round barrel charge port on the bottom but not upgradeable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBloke

TheBloke

Ultra Member
Verified Member
Mar 30, 2015
2,800
3,549
45
Brighton, UK
While I have the IPV D2 and love it, does not come with USB for updating. It used a round barrel charge port on the bottom but not upgradeable.

Oh sorry, my bad.

Yeah OK I was getting confused - I looked up the Kopoor to confirm that that had FW updating, then thought I'd checked the D2 as well.

OK that's a shame, but I suppose for a $45 mod it's to be expected. I'd still get it over the iStick, for the other reasons mentioned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread