- Apr 2, 2009
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Smokefree ordinance to be introduced in Boise (ID), don't know if e-cig ban is included
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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They aren't. The bill drafter actually went to the trouble to specifically exclude e-cigarettes in the language, which is the first time I've ever seen it.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Please post a copy of proposed ordinance in Boise, as this should be cited as an example of a real smokefree workplace law.
Draft Ordinance, September 22, 2011 Memo
Highly interesting to read that version, moreover since City of Boise has ANR’s model ordinance posted at their site. (Recall ANR model: ”“Smoking” also includes the use of an e-cigarette which creates vapor, in any manner or form.”)
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I would agree it would be a good example, Bill, if it wasn't for the fact they are banning outdoor smoking, as well. I feel bad for the smokers and there is no evidence that second-hand smoke is a concern outdoors, but I guess that's not our battle. Even so, I wouldn't want to support such an ordinance without reservation.
It definitely is good that they specifically excluded e-cigarettes!
It definitely is good that they specifically excluded e-cigarettes!
- Apr 2, 2009
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Actually, the proposed Boise ordinances would ban outdoor smoking at far fewer locations than have been banned by many other cities, none of which appear (to me) to be unreasonable (although I don't know the size of various parks in Boise).
Specifically the proposed ordinances would ban outdoor smoking at city owned parks (which there's probably only several), within 20 feet of entrances to buildings that are owned or managed by the city (but not near entrances of privately owned buildings), at outdoor eateries (except those on private property, where the vast majority of outdoor eateries are located), within 10 feet of public transportation shelters, at outdoor service lines, and at outdoor stadia (all of which are typically crowded locations).
As one who endorsed the exemption in PA's smokefree workplace law for "tobacco specialty retailers" and "cigar bars", I suspect that those entities will aggressively lobby Boise council members for exemptions (as nearly everyone who goes into those places is a smoker).
Specifically the proposed ordinances would ban outdoor smoking at city owned parks (which there's probably only several), within 20 feet of entrances to buildings that are owned or managed by the city (but not near entrances of privately owned buildings), at outdoor eateries (except those on private property, where the vast majority of outdoor eateries are located), within 10 feet of public transportation shelters, at outdoor service lines, and at outdoor stadia (all of which are typically crowded locations).
As one who endorsed the exemption in PA's smokefree workplace law for "tobacco specialty retailers" and "cigar bars", I suspect that those entities will aggressively lobby Boise council members for exemptions (as nearly everyone who goes into those places is a smoker).
- Apr 2, 2009
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I plan to send a copy of Boise's proposed ordinance to officials in municipalties where proposed ordinances/regulations deceitfully include e-cigarette usage in their proposed redefinition of "smoking", and will urge them to adopt similarly truthful and fair language in their definition of "smoking".
This is in a highly Republican state, although the Democrats have a big influence in the large cities. The whole thing sickens me. When I moved here from MD in '97 I thought it was really cool that there were no seatbelt laws and they still asked in restaraunts if you wanted the smoking or non-smoking section. Incrementally we acquired seatbelts as a primary offense and smoking regulations just 1 step shy of this. It's already banned in all restaraunts and public buildings (for the children). Now they're going after the adults. Supposedly people out here value their freedom. Not so much anymore. At least we can still carry firearms pretty much anywhere!
As pointed out by user vapoligy on VF:
The e-cig exemption has been removed from the redrafted ordinance (10/14/11 Memorandum):
The e-cig exemption has been removed from the redrafted ordinance (10/14/11 Memorandum):
That definition was a little concerning to me at first because of their inclusion of "heated" in the definition of "combusting" and the broad terms "any other substance" and "any other object", but every definition I can find of the word "combustion" specifically mentions the process of burning and oxidation. If they intend to interpret this definition broadly enough to include electronic cigarettes because it is "inhaling, exhaling... carrying, or possessing any ...heated.. other substance...in...any other object" then it would effectively ban anyone from smelling a hot cup of coffee or other beverages that produce a heated vapor that can be inhaled.
per the Boise Weekly (Boise Weekly) article:
Boise City Council Member T.J. Thomson told BW that a proposed exemption for e-cigarettes was removed to make enforcement easier. The worry, said Thomson, was that e-cigarettes would look too similar to real ones.
the entire article can be found on the website above. it's good, and covers most aspects. the wording of the ordinance I thought was very vague. It's a good article and I encorage Boise people to read it!
Boise City Council Member T.J. Thomson told BW that a proposed exemption for e-cigarettes was removed to make enforcement easier. The worry, said Thomson, was that e-cigarettes would look too similar to real ones.
the entire article can be found on the website above. it's good, and covers most aspects. the wording of the ordinance I thought was very vague. It's a good article and I encorage Boise people to read it!
just an after thought, here's a video interview if you don't want to read the article.
<iframe src="http://boiseweekly.magnify.net/embed/player/VD0H1T1HNJ632CGG" width="280" height="280" frameborder="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>
<iframe src="http://boiseweekly.magnify.net/embed/player/VD0H1T1HNJ632CGG" width="280" height="280" frameborder="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>
The ordinance certainly isn't well written. Where I think they get in trouble is the wording of "carrying, or possessing" in the meaning of smoking as well as "or any other substance whether contained in" They pretty well defined everything as smoking except "possession of unlit smoking products.
You are smoking if you carry or possess an e cig or e liquid as well as any smokeless tobacco product. That's not good, but you're also smoking by definition carrying or possessing anything since everything is made of some chemical compound including the paper the ordinance is written on. The only thing not smoking is carrying smoking products. Go figure.
The only substance they should call smoking is the "substance of their thought". That I would suggest should be banned.
Sorry for the long delay of getting involved, had account issues 
I would like to clear a few misconceptions about this up for some people. The fact is that YES, it absolutely includes Vaping, and it will include any business even on private property. So Hooka Bars, Smoke Shops, Cigar shops, and even me Vaping in my own shop. If it’s a business then the owners would have no say in the matter regardless of what kind of property it is. In fact if the owner of the shop allows someone to Vape or smoke, then the owner can also receive a fine for each person breaking the ordinance. Hmmm hard to explain an eCigarette to a smoker if you can’t Vape or let them Vape in a dedicated Vaping store!
As for the parks and outdoors, sorry to say, but it is a much larger area than a lot of people realize. It would include the entire “Greenbelt” and 25’ on each side of it. For those that don’t know, the Boise River runs from end to end in Boise, and on each side of the river is a wide paved path that is 22 miles long through the heart of the city. So the entire Boise River from one end of the city to the other is banned. The largest parks in the city would be banned, including sitting in your car in the parking lot, which is also on park property.
So this really is a very large ban for a small city like Boise!
There are actually 2 ordinances being voted on at the same time, if you would like to read the exact ordnance please see the links below. These are what the Mayor’s office emailed to me and have not been altered or changed in any way:
http://www.vapoligy.com/3211.pdf
http://www.vapoligy.com/3311.pdf
If you would like to help stop this ban and set a precedence for excluding eCigarettes in these types of bans then please email, write, call, or show up and have your voices heard. Below are the contacts for the council and Mayor:
General Information
8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays
Phone: (208) 384-4422
Email: mayor@cityofboise.org
TTY: (800) 377-3529
Mayor's Hotline
24/7 voicemail for comments, questions and concerns
Phone: (208) 384-4404
TTY: (800) 377-3529
City Council
Amanda Brown, Assistant to the City Council
Phone: (208) 384-4410
Email: abrown@cityofboise.org
TTY: (800) 377-3529
I would like to clear a few misconceptions about this up for some people. The fact is that YES, it absolutely includes Vaping, and it will include any business even on private property. So Hooka Bars, Smoke Shops, Cigar shops, and even me Vaping in my own shop. If it’s a business then the owners would have no say in the matter regardless of what kind of property it is. In fact if the owner of the shop allows someone to Vape or smoke, then the owner can also receive a fine for each person breaking the ordinance. Hmmm hard to explain an eCigarette to a smoker if you can’t Vape or let them Vape in a dedicated Vaping store!
As for the parks and outdoors, sorry to say, but it is a much larger area than a lot of people realize. It would include the entire “Greenbelt” and 25’ on each side of it. For those that don’t know, the Boise River runs from end to end in Boise, and on each side of the river is a wide paved path that is 22 miles long through the heart of the city. So the entire Boise River from one end of the city to the other is banned. The largest parks in the city would be banned, including sitting in your car in the parking lot, which is also on park property.
So this really is a very large ban for a small city like Boise!
There are actually 2 ordinances being voted on at the same time, if you would like to read the exact ordnance please see the links below. These are what the Mayor’s office emailed to me and have not been altered or changed in any way:
http://www.vapoligy.com/3211.pdf
http://www.vapoligy.com/3311.pdf
If you would like to help stop this ban and set a precedence for excluding eCigarettes in these types of bans then please email, write, call, or show up and have your voices heard. Below are the contacts for the council and Mayor:
General Information
8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays
Phone: (208) 384-4422
Email: mayor@cityofboise.org
TTY: (800) 377-3529
Mayor's Hotline
24/7 voicemail for comments, questions and concerns
Phone: (208) 384-4404
TTY: (800) 377-3529
City Council
Amanda Brown, Assistant to the City Council
Phone: (208) 384-4410
Email: abrown@cityofboise.org
TTY: (800) 377-3529
I recommend calling up your local Chamber of Commerce tomorrow.
The Chamber of Commerce in the Tacoma-Pierce County area lent great support to Kim from the Vaporium when their e-cig ban was deliberated.
The Chamber of Commerce in the Tacoma-Pierce County area lent great support to Kim from the Vaporium when their e-cig ban was deliberated.
The park ordinance does allow for smoking in your car, "Where smoking is not regulated. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter and section to the contrary, smoking in automobiles, whether in a parking lot or roadway, within a public parks shall be exempt from the provisions of this ordinance." Guess I'm SOL if I ride my motorcycle or bicycle. That will be the target of their next step probably. This address will go to the mayor and council members: mayorandcouncil@cityofboise.org . I dropped an email to it last night, pretending that they actually care.
BTW - Congratulations, DOOL on the new brick and mortar location! I'll be stopping by sometime. And does Garden City fall under the Boise ordinances? I thought y'all were a separate city altogether.
BTW - Congratulations, DOOL on the new brick and mortar location! I'll be stopping by sometime. And does Garden City fall under the Boise ordinances? I thought y'all were a separate city altogether.
Hi Boise Mike!,
You are so on the ball man, GOLD STAR for Mike! I totally missed that part, please forgive my brain damage, I was dropped as a baby one too many times LOL. To be honest with coordinating with CASAA, VF, ECF, Facebook and everywhere else, my brain is melting LOL
Thank You for the congrats, yep we finally opened first of Oct. As for separate, well its very odd, because I had to get a Boise business license AND a Garden City license. My understanding is that all Boise City laws apply to Garden City, unless Garden City has stated otherwise in their laws and ordinances. But at the moment I am going after this ordinance with everything I can muster and all the troops I can rally. Typically if Boise passes something, Garden City supports and enforces it. So better safe than sorry.
Please stop in anytime, I would love to meet fellow Vapers in the area!
Hey Placebo, took your advice and contacted them this morning. The Chamber of Commerce gave us some more information but realy was unwilling to get involved directly since it affects such a minority.
What I did find out is that TJ Thomason, the council member who was quoted in the Boise Weekly article, is an avid Facebooker. He apparently keeps it open ALL the time and religious reads and watches it.
Knowing that I was able to track down his Facebook page at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/tjthomson
Another piece of information is that the writer of the Smoking Ordinance is Ralph Blount: Boise City Prosecuting Attorney. We have tried to contact him directly, but are only able to leave voicemails.
You are so on the ball man, GOLD STAR for Mike! I totally missed that part, please forgive my brain damage, I was dropped as a baby one too many times LOL. To be honest with coordinating with CASAA, VF, ECF, Facebook and everywhere else, my brain is melting LOL
Thank You for the congrats, yep we finally opened first of Oct. As for separate, well its very odd, because I had to get a Boise business license AND a Garden City license. My understanding is that all Boise City laws apply to Garden City, unless Garden City has stated otherwise in their laws and ordinances. But at the moment I am going after this ordinance with everything I can muster and all the troops I can rally. Typically if Boise passes something, Garden City supports and enforces it. So better safe than sorry.
Please stop in anytime, I would love to meet fellow Vapers in the area!
Hey Placebo, took your advice and contacted them this morning. The Chamber of Commerce gave us some more information but realy was unwilling to get involved directly since it affects such a minority.
What I did find out is that TJ Thomason, the council member who was quoted in the Boise Weekly article, is an avid Facebooker. He apparently keeps it open ALL the time and religious reads and watches it.
Knowing that I was able to track down his Facebook page at: http://www.facebook.com/#!/tjthomson
Another piece of information is that the writer of the Smoking Ordinance is Ralph Blount: Boise City Prosecuting Attorney. We have tried to contact him directly, but are only able to leave voicemails.
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DOOL,
At the original public information Q&A session I spoke to Mr. Blount afterwards and expressed my gratitude that PVs were specifically excluded from the new regulations. He pretty much said that since they are harmless as far as the secondhand smoke issue it only made sense. And he was kinda interested in my REO. Seemed like a decent sort. And T.J. Thomson seemed like the only one who was really listening to the public testimony at the council meeting. Maybe I'll drop him a line on FB. The battle for smoking rights is lost in this town, but we can still push for PVs.
At the original public information Q&A session I spoke to Mr. Blount afterwards and expressed my gratitude that PVs were specifically excluded from the new regulations. He pretty much said that since they are harmless as far as the secondhand smoke issue it only made sense. And he was kinda interested in my REO. Seemed like a decent sort. And T.J. Thomson seemed like the only one who was really listening to the public testimony at the council meeting. Maybe I'll drop him a line on FB. The battle for smoking rights is lost in this town, but we can still push for PVs.
I would love to see vapers get the exclusion put back into the ordinance. I think it would do wonders to get the information on pv's out to the rest of smokers who haven't heard about them yet, or who don't have enough info on them to know what they are missing or what they could potentially gain from them!
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