Smokestik.ca Closed by Health Canada????

[d-be]

I’ve been lurking the forums for a while now and can’t help but notice that smokestik.ca directs you to their international website now?

but if you click enter a few times on that transition-to-international page it will take you to their Canadian website, and when there, if you try to click Locations and then enter your postal code, no local retailers show up? Before there used to be PAGES of the
of them and in addition to this, the CONTACTS button leads you to an error page.

Is smokestik Canada the first big distributer to have been forced to closed down by Health Canada?

 

[dagit]

I’ve been lurking the forums for a while now and can’t help but notice that smokestik.ca directs you to their international website now?

but if you click enter a few times on that transition-to-international page it will take you to their Canadian website, and when there, if you try to click Locations and then enter your postal code, no local retailers show up? Before there used to be PAGES of the
of them and in addition to this, the CONTACTS button leads you to an error page.

Is smokestik Canada the first big distributer to have been forced to closed down by Health Canada?

Hopefully. I count this guy among the handful who went over the top with publicity before the product and the e-cig market was ready to handle the public opinion, gov't intervention and non-profit rheotric challenges.

From promoting his "distribution network opportunities" on craigslist with false/misleading promotional mumbo-jumbo, to putting on an e-cig show in Toronto with media around, it was begging for too much attention with all the wrong marketing lingo.

Every other day I was receiving emails/calls from friends talking about this article or another they'd read which originated from SS's PR efforts, and the amount of misinformation guys had received both direct from SS and by reading the presumptions of other uneducated opinion pushers, was incredible. How many other people read the same articles, came the same wrong presumptions, got the same incorrect promo info from SS and called HC to confirm?

The timing of SS's PR efforts and HC's advisory is suspicious to my mind anyway. I wish he'd remained a bit more off the radar.

 

[dagit]

Btw, ePuffer has closed their Canadian office to receiving new orders too, for now anyway I gather.

It's the prudent step to take under the circumstances - suppliers/sellers should at least consult with a lawyer and get a proper legal opinion as to their risks before deciding whether or not to maintain the status quo.

 

[theminicig]

Hey dagit, you are completely correct. The Bill guy or whatever from SmokeStik, certainly ruined it for Canadians with incorrect marketing.

 

[Moonlightcsp]

Yes I have noticed a few also that have closed, or completely stopped selling nic completely, Our only hope seems to be from overseas until that stops too.... but small personal orders should not be a problem for awhile I hope.

moon

 

[billster88]

I think you should do a bit of research before making such claims about our company. The Craigslist adds were something that a distributor of ours had taken too much liberty in his approach...as do many people looking to make a living off of this product in general..and we requested he stop ASAP..which he did do...but to blame us for the HC ruling is a bit much...firstly we had been in contact with HC for a long time about the legality and the view they were going to make public about e-cigs in general...the timing had NOTHING to do with the article that was in the Toronto Star...a week before the article was published we were told a ruling was made and was due to be made public in a "few weeks" or by the end of March...do a bit of reading and you can see where HC had said so in plain english well before anything we brought upon the scene...so to you "theminicig" I say be a little responsible in how you bash company's marketing efforts..we just filmed a news bit in LA with a Dr. that explains in no uncertain terms that E-cigs are safer and beneficial to the public compared to analog smoking...are you going to thank us when that airs? or just say we did something wrong again? My 2 cents!!

Thanks
Bill

 

[dagit]

Interesting - It was a distributor of yours that was advertising on Craigslist to recruit more distributors? So like, the guy/gal was trying to drum up competition for himself? To the extent that it was your name given in the ads and two of my friends got the same promo message when they contacted your company through its web site, I gotta really, really wonder.

But it doesn't matter - fact is, someone representing your brand/company went over the top and the buck stops with the owner of that brand/company. If someone represents your company without authorization, there are channels to follow. If someone is authorized to represent your company but does so in a manner or form not authorized, then hopefully you've got a well crafted contract to rely on. But in either case, the reality is that if it's your brand/company, it's your responsibility to protect the integrity of the brand/company.

If it's true that the craigslist advertisments weren't authorized by you and that a distributor of yours was trying to recruit competition for him/herself, I've got empathy for you and it sounds like you did the best thing under the circumstances (ie: ask him/her to stop). If you've got that well crafted contract and choose to pursue damages against this distributor, let me know because I'd be glad to provide a letter to the effect of how his/her activities trashed your brand/company name. If you file a civil suit, I'll also provide the names of three people I know (one each in ON, BC and Manitoba) who decided not to buy from you exclusively on the basis on the craigslist promos.

But unfortunately, precisely who did what doesn't change the fact that it was your brand/company used in the over-the-top (and unlawful) promotional campaigns. And just as it was your brand/company that stood to gain from any benefits of such practices, it's your brand/company that gets the backlash.

 

[Nuck]

Hi Dagit, if you want to point your ire at a company, try pointing it at EPuffer. They have ripped off countless people here, myself included.

 

[dagit]

Hi Dagit, if you want to point your ire at a company, try pointing it at EPuffer. They have ripped off countless people here, myself included.

What does a thread about SmokeStic's Canadian status in relation to the HC advisory have to do with ePuffer's customer service issues? I think there's another thread somewhere for discussing various customer service issues with various suppliers.

 

[Nuck]

Having watched you spend quite a bit of time defending EPuffer, I thought it was quite relevant in a thread that you are bashing another supplier. A supplier with far fewer posted grievances.

There is a divide between your requests for tolerance of a company you have an affiliation with and your damning post about this particular supplier. I find the discrepancy interesting and thought it might be worthwhile to bring it out.

 

[dagit]

Having watched you spend quite a bit of time defending EPuffer, I thought it was quite relevant in a thread that you are bashing another supplier. A supplier with far fewer posted grievances.

There is a divide between your requests for tolerance of a company you have an affiliation with and your damning post about this particular supplier. I find the discrepancy interesting and thought it might be worthless to bring it out.

Um, I think I can definitely agree with you on the sentiment it's "worthless" to equate apples and oranges.

I'm sorry you've had a bad customer service experience with a supplier, but I think you're taking it too personal that I commented on my own positive experience with that same supplier.

Can we go back to the actual topic of this thread now?

 

[billster88]

How does it feel Dagit? methinks the real reason may have been "smoked" out...(pun intended)...I really don't get the bashing that you feel is needed in order to feel better about the current situation for Canadians..did one of our distributors go over the top?..yes..and he was told to stop and he did...I guess we lost many sales because of the craigslist ads(according to you) but I think we learned from it and we are not allowing it to hold us back...btw..I do think what Nuck posted is very relavent to the discussion...doesn't feel good to be slammed does it? ..My 3 cents

 

[Nuck]

Um, I think I can definitely agree with you on the sentiment it's "worthless" to equate apples and oranges.

I'm sorry you've had a bad customer service experience with a supplier, but I think you're taking it too personal that I commented on my own positive experience with that same supplier.

Can we go back to the actual topic of this thread now?

Your post is 17 minutes after an edit and you STILL misquoted. A bit immature but at least it gives me an indication of your motivation.

As for posting your positive experiences, you did quite a bit more than that. You actively defended them.

Here is a little refresher:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...er-sucks-organizing-protest-3.html#post141977

Now read your posts in this thread and you can see why the glaring discrepancy becomes relevant.

 

[dagit]

How does it feel Dagit? methinks the real reason may have been "smoked" out...(pun intended)...I really don't get the bashing that you feel is needed in order to feel better about the current situation for Canadians..did one of our distributors go over the top?..yes..and he was told to stop and he did...I guess we lost many sales because of the craigslist ads(according to you) but I think we learned from it and we are not allowing it to hold us back...btw..I do think what Nuck posted is very relavent to the discussion...doesn't feel good to be slammed does it? ..My 3 cents

Bill, please, be rational.

 

[billster88]

After reading your posts about E-puffer and how they are trying so hard to fix the problems they had in customer service...I think Nuck has something there about a hidden agenda...I wish you could see it from our angle...it's tough..we are trying to do business as honestly as we can (we NEVER give anyone any grief over wanting to return something) and we feel strongly about our relationship with our customers...to say we have played a role in HC ruling is very misleading and we don't appreciate that..sorry..but I was away and could not respond to your post immediately..but I would have if i were able to..now I can..so I did..simple

Cheers,

 

[Jake]

I don't believe for a second it was one supplier that ruined anything in Canada. Like it or not, Health Canada is doing what it is supposed to do.

Electronic cigarettes have not just been growing in popularity in Canada recently, they have been steadily growing in the whole world. Just take a look at all the news stories recently. Most of them are from USA or UK. Are smokestiks responsible for the FDA crackdown in the USA as well? Of course not.

Also, electronic cigarettes have a better chance of getting approval if more people are using them and have positive experiences with them, compared to some hush hush activity in dark basements. If smokestiks turned more people on to e-cigarettes, I say they did more to help the cause then hurt it. And if they openly spoke with Health Canada before, and not hide from them, I think this will also help the cause.

Health Canada's involvement was inevitable. What we need to do now is make sure our voices are heard, and hope the manufacturers are able to give them what they want. Electronic cigarettes have the potential to eventually turn into a worldwide multi-billion dollar industry. I doubt they will simply give up so easy. This is not the end, it is simply the beginning of the next chapter.

 

[dagit]

Anyone around here ever heard of "argumentum ad hominem"? FYI, attacking the messanger with character accusations doesn't equate to offering up a valid argument against the argument itself.

This thread is about SmokeStik's Canadian status in relation to/context with the HC advisory. I've offered up an opinion (based on first- hand knowledge) to the effect that just prior to the HC advisory being issued, SmokeStic was engaging in arguably unlawful business practices that risked drawing negative public attention to our cause.

Bill, I understand it's maybe a more pleasant exercise to jump on Nuke's "attack the messenger" bandwagon, but let's get back to the topic - can you offer up a rational explanation as to why a distributor of yours would engage in arguably unlawful business pratices in the effort to recruit competitors for him/herself, or are you willing to admit that just as it was your contact email given in those promotional ads, you were directly and deliberately involved in the campaign? In either case, do you understand how such business practices don't help our collective cause? Do you commit to refraining from engaging in such practices in the future?

Of perhaps greater interest to the Canadian "masses" going forward - can you answer the original question regarding whether or not HC's advisories lead to the closing of SmokeStik.ca? Has HC been in contact with your company directly? Is SmokeStik.ca closed permanently or are you presently evaluating options for continuing operations here in Canada?

Nuke, I'm really not interested whether or not you think it's "immature" that one clicks the "reply to post" button and then gets interrupted before completing the reply and submitting it for posting. I'm equally not interested in your imaginary "affiliation" between myself and a supplier, whether you can understand there's a big difference between one company having a customer service issue and another company that engages in arguably unlawful business practices which risk drawing negative attention to our cause, or whether you approve of me preaching tolerance for a business having customer service issues while preaching intolerance for anyone engaging in unlawful, or otherwise inappropriate, business practices that risk this for all of us who don't want to see e-cigs regulated (pun intended) to the black-market.

So, do you actually happen to have an opinion about SmokeStik's business practices in context with illegal marketing tactics in Canada?

Even better, Nuke, do you have anything to offer about the HC advisory and its possible effect on any of the distributors that appear to be closing down Canadian operations? Do you think it's possible that HC reacted, in part, to suppliers becoming more aggressive and/or engaging in broader-based advertising?


It'd be nice if you got back to the topic guys, but if we really need to have a personal bash-feast, please pm me so I can explain in vivid detail how there's nothing "immature" or remotely nefarious about the fact that between clicking the "reply to post" button and finishing the reply, my dog needed out. Apparently he was quite desperate.

 

[Nuck]

I think I've figured out what the problem is and why I have no interest in adding to your attacks on a supplier.

From your posting history, you don't post as a regular vaper. Your posts are quite leading and there is always a hint of an agenda to them. I have no problem if you do have an agenda, but it would be nice if you were up front about it. You just don't come across as another e-cig user.

 

[d-be]

hi Bill, so did health canada tell you guys to close down? or did you guys voluntarily close?

 

[dagit]

I think I've figured out what the problem is and why I have no interest in adding to your attacks on a supplier.

From your posting history, you don't post as a regular vaper. Your posts are quite leading and there is always a hint of an agenda to them. I have no problem if you do have an agenda, but it would be nice if you were up front about it. You just don't come across as another e-cig user.

Oh, you are a crack up!

So, like, does this mean that until I can convince you I'm a "regular vaper" I can look forward to you following me around the forum derailing threads with personal attacks?

Look, clearly you're very upset over your experience with ePuffer and have taken it personally that I offered up my comparably positive experiences as something to consider, but derailing this thread will all your yapping about "agendas", "motives", "affiliations", etc. is beyond silly.

If you've got something to say to me, pm me. If you want to know my "agenda", just ask because I love to type/talk/yap (as if you can't tell from the length of my posts! ) and would gladly go on at length about my various beliefs, aspirations and interests. But enough of the implied, overtly and covertly, allegations against my character because I happen to have had a very different experience than you with a particular supplier (geez, I'm almost afraid to mention that I like the guys at Janty too, despite their recent cs issues!).

Of course, if you've got something to say about the topic of this thread, please do - and golly gee, it doesn't even have to be "adding" to "attacks". You just might have an opinion, idea, question or theory that offers up food for thought without attacking ANYONE!