Retailers Ordered to Pull E-Cigs Off Shelves in Canada

[Tobay]

Ofcourse, the cancer society would applaud the ban of E-cig, why wouldn't they?. If less people smoke analog cigarettes, there will be less people with lung cancer and other disease relate to smoking. Pretty soon, we don't need those so call cancer society anymore, they'll be all out of job. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out, or does it?. We gonna see more of these madness, it's coming..

 

[Eclectic_Current]

Look, we simply have to go with civil disobedience here, en masse, and risk the penalties of the Food and Drug act if we get busted selling these devices or liquids. First, i seriously doubt anyone would get sent to jail so Sellers should run their business as incorporations with minimal assests or cash accumulations so that the only effect of a large fine is to bankrupt the particular Corp and then simply restart under a new name. It's not like that sort of thing has never been done before.

Yes, i am suggesting outright flagrant violation of the law. Thats what civil disobedience is. Maybe that is what's needed to get into court and be heard by a judge and maybe someone will come to their senses.

The hardware is not that flaky at the modular level and I am convinced that the importation in separate batches of the modules needed to ultimately assemble an eCig cannot be stopped when no liquids of any kind are included as they can be so generically described on customs documents that 99% of shipments would get through unless one wants to physically open and screen all shipments of incoming Li-ion batteries. It's simply not feasible.

Civil disobedience in terms of importing the liquids merely involves finding a supplier anywhere in the world willing to re-label the bottle as flavoring additives and use the DIN numbers of those additives ( 4-hydroxy-2, 5-dimethyl-3(2H)-furanone and Acetyl pyrazine - See p. 22,23 of NZ Health safety study at: www,healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08,pdf ) on the Customs declarations and short of a chemical analysis, how would they know that these contain nicotine ? They would even smell correct if inspected and a bottle were opened.

The civil disobedience in terms of sales and distribution within Canada once all the elements are in country is childs play. No websites are needed. Think Marijuana trade, think word of mouth and person to person distribution networks.

So is it really so wrong to blatantly advocate or engage in such illegal activities ? Will it result in more people hurt or helped ? Consider the U.K. where it sound like there might be a few hundred of thousand people using these products daily. I bet you that if you were to survey every hospital in the U.K. you would be lucky to find any cases at all of nicotine poisoning to vapers or their kids associated with these products. In fact, maybe someone should undertake to do exactly that survey in authoritative or formal fashion so that the facts can be brought to the table in this controversy.

Look, I live in Montreal and we have a multi billion dollars contraband cigarette trade going on unmolested by authorities because of the tricky issue of Indian Affairs and sovereign rights they possess regarding tobacco and those products KILL people !

So i predict that civil disobedience can win the day and in the long run, will be much less expensive than playing the government mug's game of attempting to get "certified". It is simply inevitable that all these activities will get driven underground the more forcefully they suppress it and in so doing, create a greater danger to health in general by having this all occuring illicitly and underground because mislabeled bottles which break could in fact poison the unwary customs officer etc etc.

Not to mention people atempting homebrew concoctions involving nicotine, the greatest danger of them all. But the monetary AND intended health benefits are simply too great.

This concludes today's rant

 

[yadda]

I'm with Eclectic_current... civil disobedience is right.
After 20 years of smoking, the e-cig has been the only effective method for me. There's absolutely no way am I going back to analogs, regardless of what HC does. I will continue to buy parts and e-liquid from suppliers who are willing to take a creative approach to customs declaration. Even if a shipment gets seized or sent back every so often, I'm still ahead... and will be willing to take the risk again.

 

[Nuck]

I have no problem with civil disobedience when I feel government oversteps into my personal space. In fact I think it's a duty.

 

[Tallulah]

We ban these because we don't know how safe they are, yet continue to allow cigs because we know how safe they aren't.

and because cigs are an e$tabli$hed CA$H CROP, baby.

I quite angry just now. Good luck to you in Canada.

 

[flexy123]

uhm...we HAVE a problem here.

I think to really WIN this war we have to market/view this from a totally different perspective.

a) NOT how "great" the ecigs are for *us* smokers - because noone of those people gives a s.hite about us smokers - we dont need more examples. For them we are scum!

The ecigs must be marketed in such a way that the BIGGEST BENEFIT of them is in the fact that they dont produce second hand smoke and BENEFIT non-smokers!

We have to get away from "how ecigs are good for us"...but instead use THEM and make the ecigs desireabale for them!

a) ecigs are great since they dont produce second hand smoke
b) they are great for the environment since no toxic fumes are produced
c) they will LOWER the cost of health care all over the globe

And then, merely as a "side-effect" just add the information that they OF COURSE also benefit us smokers! <--

Because all those health organzations already think we are the biggest SCUM...just go to your next "anti smoking" neighboor...and ask them what they think about YOUR smoking. Or esmoking. Doesn't matter.

Make it sound that its a benefit to THEM and to the environment AND to us....and they will start listen! Believe me!

And....the arguments about "lost tax revenue" must be strongly contered with the argument that a government will indeed SAVE money, because in the long run they actually WILL.

"Ecigs...? Ecigs wont COST you tax-money....ecigs will contribute to save billions of GVT healthcare money spent!!" <-- this is how it needs to be marketed guys!!

G.

 

[Moonlightcsp]

I fully agree with Nuck there will be much more civil disobedience coming, I have always been a law abiding citizen but the way Canada is going, NO MORE this is ridiculous! We are not in a free country anymore.
Where are my rights!!
moon

 

[Brando]

What is happening is that the propaganda machine is ramping up. The people with the most influence (tobacco, pharma, & govt) are exercising their muscle to frighten the general public on the "perceived dangers" based on the unknown, which is a COMMON strategy and used for almost everything. For us vapers it's none of it is a big deal, although it's a shame that these devices are being attacked. We'll be able to still find supplies and juice and it will be readily available! Why? Because there's a MARKET for them! As long as there are people willing to pay for e-cigs they will continue to be sold (white, grey or black). The market may go grey, but currently the FDA doesn't have legal rights to personal vaporizors with nicotine (as a novelty), but they soon will. It still doesn't matter because there is no way to enforce the law and bans will only serve to get many people MORE interested in it. E-cigs are here to stay and they will continue to thrive and blossom, because for a smoker they are a "duh" device. Our country was FOUNDED on civil disobedience and we'll see more and more of it as the left attempts to tighten their grip on our free society. Look at all the Tea Parties that are occuring, even as state governments raise taxes.

Happy vaping!

 

[dagit]

What is happening is that the propaganda machine is ramping up. The people with the most influence (tobacco, pharma, & govt) are exercising their muscle to frighten the general public on the "perceived dangers" based on the unknown, which is a COMMON strategy and used for almost everything. For us vapers it's none of it is a big deal, although it's a shame that these devices are being attacked. We'll be able to still find supplies and juice and it will be readily available! Why? Because there's a MARKET for them! As long as there are people willing to pay for e-cigs they will continue to be sold (white, grey or black). The market may go grey, but currently the FDA doesn't have legal rights to personal vaporizors with nicotine (as a novelty), but they soon will. It still doesn't matter because there is no way to enforce the law and bans will only serve to get many people MORE interested in it. E-cigs are here to stay and they will continue to thrive and blossom, because for a smoker they are a "duh" device. Our country was FOUNDED on civil disobedience and we'll see more and more of it as the left attempts to tighten their grip on our free society. Look at all the Tea Parties that are occuring, even as state governments raise taxes.

Happy vaping!

Citizens of the United States may be justified in having deeply rooted pride in knowing their country was founded on the backs of individuals standing up for their freedom and personal rights, however up here in Canada our history is better described as being a couple hundred years of begging and pleading for scraps of independence.

Here in Ontario there's a tremendous amount of crying out rants against a recent tax harmonization move between the provincial and federal governments - a move that effects the entire population rather than just minority pockets of special interest agendas, and yet I somehow don't expect we'll be seeing much "civil disobedience", riots, or, well... much of anything beyond threats not to elect the same bunch in again. We'll just replace these politicians with the same type of "leadership" in another party. But never will we actually stand up for ourselves, together, collectively, and with enough organization to actually "force" change.

If "we, the people" won't do this on an issue that effects us all, I somehow don't think we'll be doing it to protect e-cigs. Hopefully you guys down south will have more backbone.

 

[J W in Texas]

It is a sad day for our northern brothers and I have much sympathy. I have family there and consider myself to have a vested interest in anything affecting Canadian citizens.

I wish I still lived right on the border because I would make it a priority, a crusade, to do my part in the civil disobedience by visiting every week with many e-cigs, juice and parts in my many pockets. Understandably these would just be for my personal use while meeting my large group of new friends. But alas, I am so forgetful and would surely lose all of my "stuff" on every single visit.

Surely we have members here who live near our northern border and might be interested in a new exploration of cultural exchange.

 

[Lorddrek]

The ecigs must be marketed in such a way that the BIGGEST BENEFIT of them is in the fact that they dont produce second hand smoke and BENEFIT non-smokers!

Sadly non-smokers are going to need those expensive several year trials to believe that. Let me make a point how foreign this this vaping is to others. I was in a car with my boss who smokes menthols and I fired up my E-Cig and could tell he was uncomfortable with it. New things scare people. What? Smoke without burning tobacco? That can't be good for you!

Lorddrek

 

[VapeAllDay]

I hope this is an April Fools Day joke.

 

[puff-puff-pass]

I hope this is an April Fools Day joke.

I got a notion this will also be happening on April 2nd.....and beyond.

 

[hevvyd]

I was in a car with my boss who smokes menthols and I fired up my E-Cig and could tell he was uncomfortable with it.

I demonstrated mine for the girls in my office and one woman really started to balk. She was coughing and saying "eww gross! It smells so bad!". -At the time I was about 10 feet away from her. It was obviously her cigarette gag-reflex taking over, because we all know, that these do not stink. In fact, they hardly smell at all! It just goes to show you how 'programmed' our public is when it comes to cigarettes.

 

[Lorddrek]

I

t just goes to show you how 'programmed' our public is when it comes to cigarettes.

Or worse. When it comes to an electronic one. At least they they KNOW what a regular cigarette is.

 

[staresm]

I've always thought that Health Canada was the pinnacle of corruption in the Canadian Government. Anyone remember how long it took with so many missed deadlines to release the newest Canada Food Guidelines? Basically it took forever for all the "stakeholders" (those with vested interest in selling us our food) to come to a consensus. It had nothing to do with actually sorting out what was healthy to eat....just was was good tax and business health to SELL. Normally HC follows the FDA like a sheep. When it comes to advisories about pharma drugs and other products they defer to FDA rulings instead of actually doing any work or showing any initiative themselves. The fact that they have banned ecigs on their own means that in this country it's all about the taxes baby! As we've seen with the purepillz saga, HC doesn't really have any teeth to take immediate action on their advisories. Until legislation is passed to provide new law or include something under an existing law, HC doesn't have a lot of "real" power. At least until Bill C-6 passes.

Margaret

 

[waywardsister]

uhm...we HAVE a problem here.

I think to really WIN this war we have to market/view this from a totally different perspective.

a) NOT how "great" the ecigs are for *us* smokers - because noone of those people gives a s.hite about us smokers - we dont need more examples. For them we are scum!

The ecigs must be marketed in such a way that the BIGGEST BENEFIT of them is in the fact that they dont produce second hand smoke and BENEFIT non-smokers!

We have to get away from "how ecigs are good for us"...but instead use THEM and make the ecigs desireabale for them!

a) ecigs are great since they dont produce second hand smoke
b) they are great for the environment since no toxic fumes are produced
c) they will LOWER the cost of health care all over the globe

And then, merely as a "side-effect" just add the information that they OF COURSE also benefit us smokers! <--

Because all those health organzations already think we are the biggest SCUM...just go to your next "anti smoking" neighboor...and ask them what they think about YOUR smoking. Or esmoking. Doesn't matter.

Make it sound that its a benefit to THEM and to the environment AND to us....and they will start listen! Believe me!

And....the arguments about "lost tax revenue" must be strongly contered with the argument that a government will indeed SAVE money, because in the long run they actually WILL.

"Ecigs...? Ecigs wont COST you tax-money....ecigs will contribute to save billions of GVT healthcare money spent!!" <-- this is how it needs to be marketed guys!!

G.

I think this is a good point. Gotta frame the argument in a way that makes sense to them and highlights the overall benefits as opposed to just individual ones.

 

[LiquidVapor]

Our country was FOUNDED on civil disobedience and we'll see more and more of it as the left attempts to tighten their grip on our free society.

This is not a "left" or "right" thing..been going on for quite some time. We haven't lived in a "free society" for quite some time (recall the erosion of freedom that was put into overdrive over the last eight years), these puppets all work for the same masters...and they clearly have an agenda that does not have our best interests at heart, (contrary to their "we're here to save you" claims).
Yes, WE, THE PEOPLE need to make our own destiny, and hopefully do it peacefully by raising peoples awareness of the hypocrisy that is so rampant in the very organizations and political parties that claim they want to "do what's best for us". Follow the money, that is all you need to do to see why things happen or don't happen.....I know it is much easier said than done but it's up to us to either keep on accepting the status quo...or stop accepting it and create a new paradigm where we say and demand "no more corruption!"...oh yeah, that's right, we don't have the money....nice dream anyway...

 

[flexy123]

let someone reputable make a calculation what your average state/country will save on healthcare assuming that 75%-100% of all smokers will eventually jump onto e-cigs - assuming that e-cigs are indeed as "healthy", not causing cancer, emphysema, the usual.

Make a statistic about the money GAINED....and "officials" will look at this in a whole different light

This goes way farther...since its not only healthcare-money saved but also overall increased productivity if more people are healthier/fitter, things like that.

Why do you think that companies give incentives to people who stop smoking? (Or: Respective "punish" smokers)? The reason is that companies have an interest in healthy people since it SAVES them money in more than one way.

People need to start realizing this.

 

[strayling]

Flexy, the trouble is that they'll lose money. Smokers pay far more in taxes than they cost in healthcare.