Hazy - the problem with the word "addict" is that it has been spinned to become an insult.
Snooty vaping hipsters.
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Caramel, your OP to which I replied has nothing to do with your follow up.
I have no idea who you might be referring to when you say "they are portraying nicotine as evil"
I'm certainly not.
Evil is as Evil does. In order for somebody to be evil somebody must have evil intent.
Nicotine is not a somebody, it is a chemical
Nicotine is a chemical that can have detrimental effects on the human body as well as positive effects
I've not denied that.
What I have said is that it can be, that it is when used regularly, ADDICTING.
Evil would be ignoring that evil can have a detrimental effect purposely with the intent
of profiting from it's addictive properties.
See?
Undoubtedly, since I've already been accused of using ANTZ tactics I'll also be falsely accused of being EVIL.
Do you think I care?
Well, I actually do but I certainly won't let that influence my search for the truth or my desire to share my findings.
If I'm on the wrong forum to do that then I won't do that on this forum.
But that tells me much...which I won't even bother elaborating on.
The people who are willing to consider the facts without BIAS will do so.
They will search for the truth without chills for the vaping industry interfering with their search for said truth.
Now, would you care to address your actual OP or are you just trying to agitate me?
Before you continue, I must advise you that I used to agitate K-9s for a living
and have studied behavior modification techniques academically.
So...Good Luck.
Best Regards,
Hazy Shades
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Which doesn't in the least make him any less wrong, infact Hazy in that one post has made more sense then one particular poster ever has.
Something I think he is well aware of. Hence the capitalization of the word - just to really drive it home.
And so we come full circle in the thread.
Pigeon holing someone into a specific group simply to insult them - not for any reason of discussion, sharing of ideas or education - simply to put them in their place.
I smoked cigarettes for 45 years, 2 packs a day. I laid them down Jan. 1st 2015, and chose vaping to help. Nicotine addict? YEP, also the town drunk, so what? But I will tell you this, if we start arguing amongst ourselves, and creating negative issues, vaping will soon follow the analog path.
Hazy - i think there must be something good about nicotine, smoking, vaping et all, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. I've never heard of someone "addicted" to drinking gasoline for example.
Nicotine to me calms my nerves and makes me less of a d##k . I'm not proud to addicted to anything, but the people around me appreciate the fact that I'm not a d##k.
Agreed.
Try watching a show called My Strange Addiction you will change your mind.
Caramel, that's not what my dictionary says.
I don't represent anybody but myself. If folks are so insecure about the term perhaps they should seek counseling.
Alcoholism is a disease. To call somebody an alcoholic is a descriptive term as is to say that somebody has an addiction.
The insult is in one's own imagination.
I see people on this forum call cigarette smokers addicts all the time yet most of the people here
are or should be, according to the forum rules, former cigarette users or addicts.
If cigarette smoking were not an addiction it wouldn't be so difficult to quit. But it is.
Why do the people here, including me, vape?
Because we substitute one nicotine vehicle for another.
Then, if cigarette smoking can be termed an addiction
so can vaping as long as it is a vehicle for nicotine ingestion on a regular basis.
If I compared it to another addiction's replacement therapy it would be censored
if I named the substance. Therefore I can make no comparison
for you to grasp more completely.
But you're a smart puppy.
Best Regards,
A caramel lover.
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Accusing someone of being antz is common place if some don't agree. If they call you antz then anything you post must be wrong. Its a tactic used to attack someone on a personal level where no logical argument can be made.
I find it tasteless esspecialy considering most everyone here vapes, smokes, or both.
I find it tasteless esspecialy considering most everyone here vapes, smokes, or both.
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Where in the forum rules does it state that people here should be former cigarette users or addicts?
hazy - the "disease" is so because of the unwanted side effects. if alcohool would not have any other effect than cheering you up, would alcohoolism still be a "disease"? in the case of smoking, there are some 4000 substances beyond nicotine that create all kind of side effects. if we find a way to get rid of those, and get no ill side effects, would it still be a "disease"?
Of course so many vapers are addicted to nicotine. Look at all the panic threads and hoarding...
No, actually I said that for ME it's pedantic, as it amounts to the same thing. But I am not assuming that everyone's reality is the same as my reality. There really are no terribly detrimental side effects of nicotine use - which indicates dependence rather than addiction - for *most* people -- just as *most* people can drink alcohol without losing their minds, but I am unfortunately not one of them, because I am addicted to alcohol, despite the 22yrs since I last drank any. Mild side effects, for "normal" people? Certainly, with either substance, or any other "minor" substance, from either the use of the substance or the cessation of its use, or both. But my own abrupt cessation of alcohol could easily have killed me, as my doctor berated me when I told him how I had "cold turkey'ed" it.
The real addiction that all of us have suffered, and from which many of us have recovered, or are recovering, is cigarette addiction, burning-tobacco-and-inhaling-it addiction, and that is a VASTLY different thing from inhaling vaporized nicotine, or even whole tobacco alkaloids. Just as "the dose makes the poison," sometimes "the method makes the poison." The smoke of burning tobacco is so vastly different from the vapor of nicotine, PG, VG, and flavoring, that it's a real shame that they are still considered to be much the same thing -- they're not, not even close; their only similarity is in the nicotine and/or WTA itself, which leads many people to believe that being *dependent* on inhaling nicotine vapor is exactly the same thing as being *addicted* to inhaling tobacco smoke -- and they're not, not even close. But if you are unwilling to even consider the possibility of that, to even discuss it as a theory or that the reality of other people might be other than your own, then nothing any of us say and nothing you ever stumble across will make the slightest impression on you -- nothing penetrates a closed mind.
I am not basing any of my statements on dependence vs addiction merely on what someone said, or what I read, or what I have observed from dealing with other people. I am basing them on hard experience, as well as a great deal of in-depth study of the subject, because my life depends on knowing the enemy that lives in my brain, my addictive nature. Could I stop using caffeine? I certainly could, though it would be slightly uncomfortable for a few days, it wouldn't be intolerable. Could I stop using WTA abruptly? Maybe, but I'm fairly sure that my discomfort would be a great deal more severe, and would in fact bring on hard physical cravings, much like those for cigarettes themselves. Could I abstain from nicotine, AFTER I am free of the WTA? Maybe; and if sufficient time has elapsed since I got free of WTA, I'll go out on a limb and venture to say that the mild discomfort I would suffer would be NOTHING like that I would suffer right now if I discontinued WTA. Because there really is a great deal of difference between addiction and dependence.
Furthermore, there are those people who are exceptions -- they're rare, that's what makes them exceptions. My husband put down alcohol without AA, because he loves me, though he's an alcoholic too. He quit hard drugs completely cold turkey. He quit smoking without withdrawal -- twice; from cigarettes when he was 21, and a few years ago from little cigars. When he decides something, that is his reality, and the reality of other people simply does not apply to his. He's simply a freak of nature.
Andria
Never been good with figures, but I figure 80% of the members in here are former analog smokers looking for a better option with their addiction.
I think most vapers would agree that they are dependent on nicotine. When pressed, I think some would probably agree that they are addicts and the difference between the two is largely semantics.
The only issue I have is when someone tells me directly they are not an addict, I won't turn around to them and yell ADDICT at them while trying to pretend I am taking the high ground.
Hardly conducive to open discussion.
Ok, I give up. What is ANTZ? In medical terminology, it means Abnormal Transformation. Otherwise, it's a mediocre animated flick from DreamWorks...
I have to agree that nicotine is an addiction. If it weren't, I wouldn't suffer withdrawals when I quit (without vaping). I don't suffer withdrawals from milk. From water. From ketchup. If it were the alternative ingredients in commercial cigarettes, as some suggest, then I should have suffered withdrawals from those commercial cigs when I switched to a pipe or an all organic cig. I did not. Must've been the nicotine, then. Wasn't the paper (no paper in a pipe). Wasn't the additives (no additives in my pipe tobacco and we can dispute this, but I also smoked home grown organic whole leaf cigars for a while too, so...). Must've been the nicotine. Deductive reasoning without reading any reports... simple.
But I'm not gonna play the pot and point to the kettle screaming "black!"
But I digress...
I also don't generally pigeonhole or stereotype people. My father, may he rest in peace, taught me that anyone can be an as***let regardless of race, creed, religion, color, hipsterisms, or financial wherewithal.
Customer service? Find out how much I know, and what I am willing to undertake, and what my goals are BEFORE suggesting anything. If I take my car in for an oil change and get presented with a bill detailing a transmission replacement, I'm gonna be irate whether the car needed an new transmission or not. Likewise, if I go into a shop and ask about product, don't shove a sub-ohm dripper mounted on something the size of a car battery without determining first if I want to rebuild (I don't), if I can afford it (I can't), or if I want to blow clouds (I don't). What I want (and they would have known this if they had asked) is the best balance between taste, price, and convenience while I quit smoking the cancer sticks that were alternately killing me and keeping me calm enough not to shove that baseball bat sized mod up their scrawny little...
*vape... ok, I'm calmer now*
Suffice it to say that as a small, independent businessman, I have to know a bit about customer service.
Finally, there is a point where people should agree to disagree and walk away from a situation without resorting to name-calling.
Now, my index finger is sore from typing this entire missive on a smartphone, and I think I'll sit back, relax, vape a bit more, and... wait...
I have to agree that nicotine is an addiction. If it weren't, I wouldn't suffer withdrawals when I quit (without vaping). I don't suffer withdrawals from milk. From water. From ketchup. If it were the alternative ingredients in commercial cigarettes, as some suggest, then I should have suffered withdrawals from those commercial cigs when I switched to a pipe or an all organic cig. I did not. Must've been the nicotine, then. Wasn't the paper (no paper in a pipe). Wasn't the additives (no additives in my pipe tobacco and we can dispute this, but I also smoked home grown organic whole leaf cigars for a while too, so...). Must've been the nicotine. Deductive reasoning without reading any reports... simple.
But I'm not gonna play the pot and point to the kettle screaming "black!"
But I digress...
I also don't generally pigeonhole or stereotype people. My father, may he rest in peace, taught me that anyone can be an as***let regardless of race, creed, religion, color, hipsterisms, or financial wherewithal.
Customer service? Find out how much I know, and what I am willing to undertake, and what my goals are BEFORE suggesting anything. If I take my car in for an oil change and get presented with a bill detailing a transmission replacement, I'm gonna be irate whether the car needed an new transmission or not. Likewise, if I go into a shop and ask about product, don't shove a sub-ohm dripper mounted on something the size of a car battery without determining first if I want to rebuild (I don't), if I can afford it (I can't), or if I want to blow clouds (I don't). What I want (and they would have known this if they had asked) is the best balance between taste, price, and convenience while I quit smoking the cancer sticks that were alternately killing me and keeping me calm enough not to shove that baseball bat sized mod up their scrawny little...
*vape... ok, I'm calmer now*
Suffice it to say that as a small, independent businessman, I have to know a bit about customer service.
Finally, there is a point where people should agree to disagree and walk away from a situation without resorting to name-calling.
Now, my index finger is sore from typing this entire missive on a smartphone, and I think I'll sit back, relax, vape a bit more, and... wait...
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so what does addiction have with hipsters? or are we on the last leg of the thread were we have nothing more to say than "YOU ADDICT!" nah nah nah...?
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