So apparently I need to quit vaping

[bombastinator]

You seem to be talking about the pseudo unfinished research loophole. The way it used to be, before the Regan administration, is the government would do research and wide and it. The problem was that it didn’t just wide and to American companies it wide banded to the world. So they changed things slightly. Companies themselves do research and if they finish a study they have to wind band it. How does one abuse this? Never actually quite finish the study. You can do 95% of it and find out what one actually needs to know, but if the study isn’t actually finished there is no requirement to publish. As a result, while the research has often been done, it isn’t published. Furthermore someone who does have the information from that research, but hasn’t officially done it, can then “cook” research by knowing how to do the study so it gives the impression that is desired. Then do THAT research “officially” in that particular way so as to make the answer come out in favor of the backers. This is a major reason why only tobacco and mint flavors are “officially” recognized as being safe for vaping. They’re the only flavors that are “official”. Other stuff has no doubt been tried, but not officially. It’s often about what research has carefully not been “officially” done. So it frequently is about not what is or is not safe, but what has been tested or not tested, rather than what actually is or is not dangerous. And what is tested can be controlled. I don’t think the FDA is in collusion with big tobacco, I think it is being conned BY big tabacco. A critical difference. Garbage in garbage out. They get cooked studies they take a reasonable stance as it the studies were not cooked. They have to. Do they trust big tabacco? I don’t think so. The movie “the insider” helped show how evil this companies can be, and the lengths they will go to, legal or not, to keep revenue up.

 

[bombastinator]

It occurs to me that congress could fix it. All that is needed is a slight change that forces publishing of any research where preliminary findings are gathered. Unlikely to happen though. Just forcing them to pay for it isn’t enough. The researchers need to be protected from firing too. Thats a good way to derail a study and keep it from getting published. They used to do that by making researchers government workers. If they can’t do that they need to do something else though because clearly it is being abused and people are dying.

 

[dog man]

There was a Vitamin D3 study showing very good results with cancers and other ailments, It ended before being finished.
Why? "
In my opinion the Drug Co's were seeing a result that might have voided the use of many expensive drugs vs a over the counter cheap vitamin.
They are doing us a disservice and we as aa People are left to decipher what is real and really works with incomplete data.
As far as Congress? What have they done lately...

 

[bombastinator]

There was a Vitamin D3 study showing very good results with cancers and other ailments, It ended before being finished.
Why? "
In my opinion the Drug Co's were seeing a result that might have voided the use of many expensive drugs vs a over the counter cheap vitamin.
They are doing us a disservice and we as aa People are left to decipher what is real and really works with incomplete data.
As far as Congress? What have they done lately...

Fight amongst themselves mostly it seems. I remember Obama once stated some thing to the effect about some issue that it could not be resolved because segments in congress wouldn’t allow whatever it was to even be brought up so there wasn’t any point in even trying. Seeing a lot of that lately.

 

[dog man]

It's not Congress/Senate I'm concerned about even though drug and other entities are paying them off. It's the Anti Smoking Lobbies, ACS (cancer soc), Big Pharma, and entities of the sort.
They're interfering with our lives and health all in the lie of helping.... for profit.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

They're interfering with our lives and health all in the lie of helping.... for profit.

See Kristins' post here - HEADS UP - NEWS - UPDATES! (When we know, you'll know!)

 

[bombastinator]

It's not Congress/Senate I'm concerned about even though drug and other entities are paying them off. It's the Anti Smoking Lobbies, ACS (cancer soc), Big Pharma, and entities of the sort.
They're interfering with our lives and health all in the lie of helping.... for profit.

ACS is getting conned by big tobacco/big pharma though I’m pretty sure. The whole congressional thing was in the “there should be a law” kind of thing but there won’t be and that is why. I believe the term is “gridlock” though that may be overbroad. I don’t know.

 

[dog man]

Yes, the Law making entities are tied into all of this, but they're prompted by the Lobbyists who buy them off. Otherwise none of these lawmakers would even bring these issues to the table.

 

[bombastinator]

Yes, the Law making entities are tied into all of this, but they're prompted by the Lobbyists who buy them off. Otherwise none of these lawmakers would even bring these issues to the table.

My understanding is the lobbyists true currency isn’t money so much as information. Really hard to get inside information. Sometimes false information.

 

[dog man]

It's both Bomb.
Money and mis-information to hold to an agenda.
Seems like we're on the same page.

 

[bombastinator]

Generally lobbists need to feed some good information first to let the bad information slide through, and big tobacco’s “halted” research gives them a big leg up in cooking it up so it looks good.

 

[dog man]

Am I mistaken or not...
Tobacco Co's were buying into the e-cig market like the pods that aren't refillable?
I was hoping with the power that Big tobacco would influence E-cig use, since they were getting vested in it. This partially protects us e-cig users. I have to wonder how bad legislation might be IF they didn't do so, By that I mean the ACS, FDA, ALA, other Org's might have slammed the door shut on us IF Tobacco hadn't stepped in.
So inadvertently Tobacco has helped us in this matter. That doesn't excuse the harm done.
But your point is correct.

Also "halted research'' IS a big issue wether Tobacco, D3 studies and polls, and a number of other research grants that were showing positive results.
Seems some good people start certain research projects and they get shut down. I personally believe the whole of Cancers would have been solved with honest research but those studies evaporate. After all, there's BIG Dollars in the Big "C".
Think how many Med Co's would go under IF cancers were cured. Instead they spend research $$'s on drugs to prolong life instead of curing the problem to begin with.
Ivermectin is a good example of a (possible) cure if taken on a regular basis. I kinda think IF everyone did so, the 'C' rate would drop by 90+%. But at $.16c a pill,(I purchase it out of India) it doesn't stand a chance in the research arena.

So we as a People need to be on top of things without the aid of the Medical Society. They are just not trained or taught these things in Med School.

 

[bombastinator]

Am I mistaken or not...
Tobacco Co's were buying into the e-cig market like the pods that aren't refillable?
I was hoping with the power that Big tobacco would influence E-cig use, since they were getting vested in it. This partially protects us e-cig users. I have to wonder how bad legislation might be IF they didn't do so, By that I mean the ACS, FDA, ALA, other Org's might have slammed the door shut on us IF Tobacco hadn't stepped in.
So inadvertently Tobacco has helped us in this matter. That doesn't excuse the harm done.
But your point is correct.

Also "halted research'' IS a big issue wether Tobacco, D3 studies and polls, and a number of other research grants that were showing positive results.
Seems some good people start certain research projects and they get shut down. I personally believe the whole of Cancers would have been solved with honest research but those studies evaporate. After all, there's BIG Dollars in the Big "C".
Think how many Med Co's would go under IF cancers were cured. Instead they spend research $$'s on drugs to prolong life instead of curing the problem to begin with.
Ivermectin is a good example of a (possible) cure if taken on a regular basis. I kinda think IF everyone did so, the 'C' rate would drop by 90+%. But at $.16c a pill,(I purchase it out of India) it doesn't stand a chance in the research arena.

So we as a People need to be on top of things without the aid of the Medical Society. They are just not trained or taught these things in Med School.

Iirc what happened originally was big tobacco first attempted to buy its way in. They came out with an ecig that if it was released as soon as it was designed would have been pretty good, but they faffed around with the marketing for 5 years and by the time they came out with it the thing was an obsolete joke. The tobacco companies were used to a product that hadn’t seen a technological improvement in 100 years. Ecigs were not that way. They were waaaay too slow. So they instead started buying ecig companies and did it that way. Theyre also used to absurdly high profit margins and the only way to get them is with disposables whose continuing costs are 5 times what rebuildables are
. Disposables and big tobacco are made for each other.

 

[dog man]

That's kinda how I remember it all some 10-15 yeas back.
I was selling some 808 disposables in a shopping mall kiosk at the time.
A side gig.
I then considered a small outlet store but with the Political Climate and talking with my Local Representative , I backed off of the idea. Regs in Illinois were not looking good.
Knowing what I know now, I should have done it... The Politicians have taken this long to get as oppressive as they are now and we're still going strong (yet some headaches).

 

[DPLongo22]

I watched my Mom go from Alzheimers. It wasn't pretty. She smoked until age 72ish. at age 74ish She was diagnosed.
Now the unanswered question is Did Her Smoking slow the progression and when she quit , did it trigger the disease?
No way of knowing.

My personal experiences are VERY similar, with only the ages being slightly higher (for my mom).

My wife has dropped down to 3mg. She didn't have the same experiences with her folks, thankfully.

I'm hanging in the 15-18mg range, simply on the outside chance that it MIGHT keep me from a similar fate. I hope to never go through what I watched her go through.

Like you said, there's no way to ever know for sure, but I figure, it's worth a shot.

 

[TheSingularity]

Iirc what happened originally was big tobacco first attempted to buy its way in. They came out with an ecig that if it was released as soon as it was designed would have been pretty good, but they faffed around with the marketing for 5 years and by the time they came out with it the thing was an obsolete joke. The tobacco companies were used to a product that hadn’t seen a technological improvement in 100 years. Ecigs were not that way. They were waaaay too slow. So they instead started buying ecig companies and did it that way. Theyre also used to absurdly high profit margins and the only way to get them is with disposables whose continuing costs are 5 times what rebuildables are
. Disposables and big tobacco are made for each other.

My goodness. What a lovely echo chamber I've found. Largely, I agree - studies tend to be biased toward companies, as the companies provide funding for the studies and/or the politicians who direct funding to different academic institutions. That doesn't inherently mean that D3 is a cancer inhibitor, nor that nicotine aids in the prevention of COVID. These are theories with - at best - tenuous correlation. Should we use our modern super computers and try to plot that correlation among many medical studies? Yes. Are we still in the infancy of our understanding of how chemicals affect our human bodies? Yes.

May I ask what sort of device you use, bombastinator? I blow a bit of clouds as I prefer DTL (direct-to-lung) and can't imagine using over 12mg.

 

[bombastinator]

Good luck with the cutdown and it's worked for many, so I'm confident that it will for you too.

If it helps, "18mg" is actually 1.8% nic. 15 mg is 1.5% nic (and so on). It was never really about "mg", but they used that verbiage to help smokers relate to cigs, where one cig = approx. 1mg of nic.

Work down the percentages and you'll be good to go. My wife vape "3mg" (.3%), down from 18mg (12 years ago). She could stop without even noticing it now.

I'm still up around 1.5% but that's by choice. I don't know that there's a better option to cut down and quit than vaping. Many have used it to quit completely, so I'm confident you will be able to do the same.

The way I’ve been doing it is I’ve got 60ml bottles. I’m currently putting 6.5 lm of 100mg/ml base into them before turning it into juice. This would be what I think of as ~12mg juice. (I haven’t bothered to work out the exact number) I’m having trouble going lower. I suspect it’s time to add an anti-anxiety drug.

 

[TheSingularity]

The way I’ve been doing it is I’ve got 60ml bottles. I’m currently putting 6.5 lm of 100mg/ml base into them before turning it into juice. This would be what I think of as 10mg juice. I’m having trouble going lower. I suspect it’s time to add an anti-anxiety drug.

Yeah, pretty much 10mg/ml. I hope you don't hit the same road block I have. I'm a chain-vaper at 6mg unflavored. At this point, I'm more concerned with my intake of vg/pg and potential RDA wire material than I am nicotine.

 

[bombastinator]

I always thought the whole 10, 6,3 thing was overly steep. I might try 9 or 8 and see how that goes. The 3 to 0 jump strikes me as exceptionally rough. A lot of people simply fail there. If that was where I was I might try 2.5 instead. Or even more 2.8 or something. But if 10 is enough but 6 isn’t obviously the minimum dose for you is more than 6 but less than 10. What I really want to know myself is more about nicotine. It has apparently been heavily secretly studied, but that isn’t very useful to me.

 

[dog man]

DP..
Sorry to here about You Mom.
I've been (lightly) tested for cognitive and so far so good at age 69. As said is it the Nic or just my genetics... Dunno, but after watching my Mom, I fear finding out. So I'm remaining on 14-18mg juice for the long term.