So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[DVap]

Just thought I'd post something about my own experience with WTA.

Not sure if I mentioned this in a thread or in a PM to somebody... Probably the biggest reason I've gotten myself off of the WTA is that when I vape it, I feel exactly like a smoker. Perhaps there's an "imprint" on my brain of what smoking is like and what vaping is like, and the taste, feel, and effects of WTA matches the smoking imprint much more than it matches the vaping imprint.

The enjoyment I used to get out of an analog, lets call 5/5. The best vaping can ever do for me is about a 3.5/5. WTA provides me about 4.75/5. As folks like TBob, Vaporer, Twisted, and (to a lesser extent) OTD can attest, there's something about the WTA taste and feel that no regular e-liquid can quite duplicate.

In short, when I vape WTA, I feel more like a smoker than a vaper. I guess this messes with my head.

 

[Vaporer]

Chem101,
Been there wih the scripts and quitting. They help, but if you have any problems, they have another to add to offset the side effects of it and so on. When you hit taking 4 scripts, your head is so messed up and its rough to quit the scripts.
It may work for some, it didnt for me and coming off them wasnt easy.

I remember the conversation well DVap between you, exo and myself after I tried the WTA as the initial tester. I could see the potential that it replaced everything so well that a long run with it, e liquid would never do again.
Like trading one bad addiction for another with less harmful ingredients.
That's the main reason I don't think WTA would ever be on the market.

It's to real. Makes for a very nice "vacation" day though.

 

[a2dcovert]

With over 960 posts in this thread how do I pick the best method of tobacco /snus extraction using VG?

 

[kinabaloo]

Vaporer - nothing wrong with an addiction to something that's virtually harmless. Key point is, it needs to be effective to get people off smoking; smoke is the danger, not the 'addiction'.

A2dcovert - while fears about BP raise from nicotine might be exaggerated for most, anyone with circulatory / heart problems does need to be cautious of this.

Chem101 - Yes, a truly sick joke!
Also, agree w. DVap's following comment.

edit : add this though: modern life is pretty stressful in ways that our nature is not completely well-adapted to, so doing well on 'tranquilisers' and 'anti-depressants' is not at all necessarily implicative of self-medicating a 'dis-ease'. Having a morning coffee before setting off down the highway is completely rational, given the dangers therein and the need to be alert so early in the day. And note all the studies that show that alcohol in moderation extends life, presumably through stress-relief. Wanting to go dancing, say, does not indicate INL syndrome - Irrational Need to Limber, or whatever!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

With over 960 posts in this thread how do I pick the best method of tobacco /snus extraction using VG?

I'd like to second this. I would assume if I soak a pound of RYO the nicotine level would be damagingly high, no? I know DVap knows all about this and kin has conducted his own trials. If I let a pound soak in vg for, say, 24 hours, what next? Surely, the liquid isn't fit for vaping at this point. I don't know, stupid to try?

 

[kinabaloo]

To be safe one would assume 100% of extraction of nicotine (and other alkaloids). Tobacco has about 10mg nic / g. So one would calculate the liquid volume to get the required nic mg / ml.

If someone did want to try this, one might try a small amount first. And proceed with caution re volumes, avoiding skin contact, etc. with a PGA / VG mix.

It wouldn't be perfect, but likely much better than setting fire to the tobacco.

 

[Vaporista]

Shoot. I don't know how I missed this tread but thanks Vaporer for tugging me over. No doubt about it in my mind that there's the WTA which in some ratio with flavouring and nicotine is as has been said are "The Holy Grails" which will see us individually comfortably off. I often wonder myself if I'm heading for a reality crash and getting catapulted straight back into the iron fist of Mr. Tobacco Cigarette. I get this gnawing feeling like I've been on death row all my life and now the warders are playing some cruel joke by giving me a unsupervised day pass into the local carefree village where everything is an illusion, (the Vaping scene) and the joke will be on me because in reality I'm just feasting on the smorgsmabord of my last meal.(all the liquids, and favourings and strengths and the delivery devices themslves) and at the rate I'm going I will wake up with the tablecloth of the feast yanked from underneath and I'll be dead man walking into ...hello darkness my old friend, comforting and familiar, my death row place, to be sure, but a place from where I will be until I take my last emphesema ridden gasps before I expire in a world of pain. These months have seen me run the whole gamut and I've tried everything, and now after dropping snus, and snuff and nicotine spray as supplements, I've simply gone and got more powerful delivery devices and have seen my juice strength meter climb like a speedometer towards the red line. 15mg 18mg 24mg 26mg and now 36mg and even my supplier is shaking his head and saying I'm poisoning myself and my smoking relatives heap on the abuse themselves and when I say look I don't feel anything- unlike you- my heart is not beating faster at 36mg, I don't feel like I'm about to explode- I just feel normal, but something cannot be right when I find myself obsessing and vaping all day long trying to find an equilibrium. There are people on the forum who've been vaping 24mg and taking happy pills who've ended up in the ER convinced they'd OD'd on nicotine -you know, vaping all day in a tiny airless room (well voices in the head would do that to anyone I'd imagine) but that's not the nicotine overdose I'm relating to. I will vape myself asleep.I will abuse coffee to wake up and to get my throat wet enough for the next daylong gas assault. I will relate to TB and how he experiences nicotine OD. But most people here, not on this thread, in the General forums I've concluded are lightweight/mediumweight contenders in the nicotine stakes. There's but a big handful of battle scarred nicotine veterans who've barrelled through the smokey decades on full throttle who see that e-cigs without the missing X factor in the WTA as doomed to eventual failure as devices; more useful and longer lasting than other NRT's to be sure; but doomed on their own even if they came out with a 12v mini Canon with 100mg it wouldn't make any difference in the greater scheme of things except make more money for the merchants. Already I can feel a malaise setting in myself. I can't put my finger on it. but I can see the day that the e-cig will no longer work for me without the isolated factor in the WTA. Already two months off cigarettes I get feelings like I've withdrawn from narcotics, a shocky feeling if you like, so it's not the nicotine- if anything I'm getting too much of that. I still do not crave cigarettes, my wife smokes them around me, but I do know they taste awful and all but deep down I do know that I'll feel right as rain if I supplement with analogs and I'll be back to square one. As has been said, everyone has a different brain chemistry make-up. I had a high tolerance to alcohol and ten years ago I just stopped, never regretted it, never looked back. I haven't even tried cold turkey with cigarettes, it was an insurmountable thing for me but I believe if the push comes to the shove, through vaping I've placed myself in a better psychlogical position to walk away from it all. I don't want to. I enjoyed smoking but I don't want to become a smoking statistic so now I enjoy vaping but as has been said by a lot of you there is no way that the WTA will be ever commercially available, unless perhaps it is developed outside of the FDA jurisdiction under the support of a sympathetic government who see the potential in such an enterprise. But for me when the day comes that vaping no longer works, and I can feel the discomfort factor already- I won't jump into the snus boat, nor the snuff boat and not even in the dissolvables boat. I will walk out on the plank into the great land of Quit and throw my shackles away. However if I could help develop and source a supply of WTA, I'd be in that boat in a flash.

 

[a2dcovert]

A2dcovert - while fears about BP raise from nicotine might be exaggerated for most, anyone with circulatory / heart problems does need to be cautious of this.


edit : add this though: modern life is pretty stressful in ways that our nature is not completely well-adapted to, so doing well on 'tranquilisers' and 'anti-depressants' is not at all necessarily implicative of self-medicating a 'dis-ease'. Having a morning coffee before setting off down the highway is completely rational, given the dangers therein and the need to be alert so early in the day. And note all the studies that show that alcohol in moderation extends life, presumably through stress-relief. Wanting to go dancing, say, does not indicate INL syndrome - Irrational Need to Limber, or whatever!

I agree with the nicotine risk with circulatory / heart. The other problems I was having was with breathing. Ashma and pre COPD were really getting to be a real problem. I was already using an inhaler and getting more frequent in my use of Spriva. All lung problems have completely dissappeared since I quit smoking. A lot of issues have been addressed by quitting smoking. I figured the effects of nicotine were better than the enormus risk of smoking.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

To be safe one would assume 100% of nicotine (and other alkaloids). Tobacco has about 10mg nic / g. So one would calculate the liquid volume to get the required nic mg / ml.

If someone did want to try this, one might try a small amount first. And proceed with caution re volumes, avoiding skin contact, etc. with a PGA / VG mix.

It wouldn't be perfect, but likely much better than setting fire to the tobacco.

Thanks, kin. That's the number I was looking for. I've seen it may times posted here and there, but like so many other things, someone needed to spell out for me what I aready knew .

 

[kinabaloo]

Twisted - that figure is off the top of my head, but right ballpark i think. Varies a lot. That figure is based on the 10% absorbed from analogs rather than looking up various leaf compositions.

Vaporista - reality is that there's a wide spectrum - some not even much bothered by nic, just the handling and puffing. Some seem to get by ok on just nic, at least for some time, and some cannot.

If we think about the smoking replacement as like a video game. The first ping-pong through to the Wii - and surely more to come - the closer it is in replicating the experience, the better.

So WTA absoltely should be available - could save the lives of millions. That WTA might not be while analogs are freely availble is beyond sanity.

Ad2 - I understand. I know almost nothing about asthma and COPD so can't say anything on those; but absence of smoke surly a good thing, as you know

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hi, Vaporista. Do I sense some frustration with PV worship here ? Surely you're doing something wrong . Maybe you just need to get serious about it . !! You've come to the right place, then. When I read your post I thought "Who's been reading my mind?". I, too, always enjoyed my smokes, but wanted to steer away from the bad stuff. I was already aware of their positve effects on my brain, but I figured with vaping nicotine I'd be good to go. Not so. That's why Trog started this thread and why we're still here. You may be right about WTA production remaining non-existent, but it's possible. The addictive nic in our liquids is the FDA focus and a WTA containing liquid probably won't change their view one way or the other. I'll continue to cross fingers. And glad to have you in the neighborhood .

 

[Vaporista]

Hi, Vaporista. Do I sense some frustration with PV worship here ? Surely you're doing something wrong . Maybe you just need to get serious about it . !! You've come to the right place, then. When I read your post I thought "Who's been reading my mind?". I, too, always enjoyed my smokes, but wanted to steer away from the bad stuff. I was already aware of their positve effects on my brain, but I figured with vaping nicotine I'd be good to go. Not so. That's why Trog started this thread and why we're still here. You may be right about WTA production remaining non-existent, but it's possible. The addictive nic in our liquids is the FDA focus and a WTA containing liquid probably won't change their view one way or the other. I'll continue to cross fingers. And glad to have you in the neighborhood .

Thanks It is a double edged sword isn't it. Nice to be in the neighbourhood and with minds that think alike. (of course having extremely competent chemists aboard helps no end! ) V

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

(of course having extremely competent chemists aboard helps no end! ) V

Yeh, somebody's gotta keep us in line .

 

[olderthandirt]

... even if they came out with a 12v mini Canon with 100mg it wouldn't make any difference in the greater scheme of things except make more money for the merchants...

Hi Vaporista, always enjoy your way with the words. Glad to see you've found this particular thread!

 

[frankie1]

Thanks to every one of you...for sharing your stories and for your kind words of encouragement and support. I was about ready to throw in the towel, but I keep coming here, looking for the holy grail. What I have found is understanding and acceptance...it helps me resolve to continue to quest.

Vaporer....Your post made sense to me and, honestly, those words mean a lot to me! Thank you...and everyone for taking the time and effort to help.

 

[Vaporer]

Had a feeling you migh feel at home here Vaporista. A very non judgemental groupjust looking to help each other and with professional skills to boot.

Kin, when I refer to WTA not seeing the market, I'm looking at it from "thier" side, you are looking at it from "our" side. They have this "they don't need to exist" attitude so why give us an altenative, safer or not to exist?.
Agreed we all have addictions, even "them", to chocolate, sugar, caffeine and keep on counting.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Thanks to every one of you...for sharing your stories and for your kind words of encouragement and support. I was about ready to throw in the towel, but I keep coming here, looking for the holy grail. What I have found is understanding and acceptance...it helps me resolve to continue to quest.

Vaporer....Your post made sense to me and, honestly, those words mean a lot to me! Thank you...and everyone for taking the time and effort to help.

I agree, frankie . Among so many things included in this thread is the openess we share. With some variation, we're all here because we understood that a cigarette is more than just a "hand-to mouth" addiction or a nicotine addiction. Ecigs cover that pretty well, but don't cover the medicinal value too overlooked in tobacco. But what I enjoy most is the fellowship of others like me and some not so like me (DVap), but care enough to be interested in seeing what they can contribute . I like it here. As far as Vaporer's posts, I agree there, also. He appears to be a kind and gentle uncle or friend with words of wisdom that rarely leave room for comment . Though when the technical side comes out...well I don't know enough to comment . Quite a group gathering here, though. Sorta like a human version of a well balance meal analogy .

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

even if they came out with a 12v mini Canon with 100mg it wouldn't make any difference in the greater scheme of things except make more money for the merchants.

I think these are fightin' words, elsewhere .

 

[a2dcovert]

Well now I've seen it all. We got snow tonight in south west Louisiana. Kind of fitting for this crazy existance I'm in now.

Going to soak some kind of tobacco tomorrow or burn it. One way or the other things have to change and soon.

 

[DVap]

All...

I'm testing a non-toxic tobacco soak that might produce a decent alkaloid mix without a lot of the co-extracted crap.

If anything comes of it, I'll be willing to share the method, I give it a 1 in 3 chance of working.