So cert organic eliquid is bad. Can someone please explain why?

[Mazinny]

This is where understanding the chemistry becomes critical. The organic compounds in natural and artificial flavors are the same. Of even greater importance, wherein an artificial flavoring a chemist specifically chooses the organic compounds, a natural flavoring does not have the same luxury. Even for oral consumption, there are studies that indicate natural flavorings contain more impurities, have poorer consistency, and artificial flavorings undergo more testing.

I DIY, and will occasionally use a natural flavoring, but I do so knowing the likelihood is that there will be a greater number of unwanted organic compounds that increase the risk of inhalation.

i think, i see your point. you are basically saying that artificial flavors contain only the molecule or organic compounds that are responsible for taste whereas natural flavors are arrived at by extracting the whole thing, yeah ?

 

[celticluvr]

OP: I wasn't saying anyone was taking a stab at him... Just warning folks to realize he is a mod(for those that didn't know). I don't like to see anyone get in trouble/reprimanded. I just wanted to be helpful.



Sometimes I talk to much. *Goes back to lurking.*

 

[amolson]

i think, i see your point. you are basically saying that artificial flavors contain only the molecule or organic compounds that are responsible for taste whereas natural flavors are arrived at by extracting the whole thing, yeah ?

Which is why some of us don't like them. To me they're flat and bland. I'll take the risks, just like I'll take the risks of eating fruit instead of fruit flavored juice or I'll eat meat instead of texturized vegetable protein.

Is the real thing probably more dangerous? Yeah. Am I willing to take that tiny, tiny, tiny risk? Oh yes. Same as I'll drink water, despite the risks, which are probably far more significant, as I drink much, much more.

 

[Porksmuggler]

i think, i see your point. you are basically saying that artificial flavors contain only the molecule or organic compounds that are responsible for taste whereas natural flavors are arrived at by extracting the whole thing, yeah ?

Close enough...for an artificial flavoring, one starts with a natural flavor. It is analyzed, and the organic compounds are isolated that produce that natural flavor. The artificial flavoring itself consists of those same organic compounds, but they are derived from other naturally sourced chemicals, often non-food hydrocarbons.

 

[Mazinny]

Close enough...for an artificial flavoring, one starts with a natural flavor. It is analyzed, and the organic compounds are isolated that produce that natural flavor. The artificial flavoring itself consists of those same organic compounds, but they are derived from other naturally sourced chemicals, often non-food hydrocarbons.

don't know about close enough, seems you are restating what isaid, albeit in a more refined and scientific way

k... i get it now.

 

[Mazinny]

Which is why some of us don't like them. To me they're flat and bland. I'll take the risks, just like I'll take the risks of eating fruit instead of fruit flavored juice or I'll eat meat instead of texturized vegetable protein.

Is the real thing probably more dangerous? Yeah. Am I willing to take that tiny, tiny, tiny risk? Oh yes. Same as I'll drink water, despite the risks, which are probably far more significant, as I drink much, much more.

fair enough, your decision, and it seems to be an informed one.

i haven't tried the same flavor derived at naturally or artificially to see if i detect a difference, or to see which i prefer. anecdotal evidence suggests i don't like liquids by vendors that claim to be organic though. have tried a bunch of liquid from virgin vapors and velvet cloud. i found the former to taste perfumey, and the latter weak.

 

[Porksmuggler]

^ That's the expected experience, and one you'll see frequently mentioned in the forum. The natural flavorings are typically significantly less concentrated. So both observations go hand in hand. They taste weaker, and simultaneously require a much larger percentage of the natural flavoring, so they end up tasting perfumey (a consequence of all those extra organic compounds in greater percentage).

 

[organikness]

OP: I wasn't saying anyone was taking a stab at him... Just warning folks to realize he is a mod(for those that didn't know). I don't like to see anyone get in trouble/reprimanded. I just wanted to be helpful.



Sometimes I talk to much. *Goes back to lurking.*

No no brother / sister, that was me and my wording. The more people that can freely speak in this world, the better!

<3

 

[amolson]

I think a lot of it with the organics is also the flavors you like. For me, usually, I prefer 'ingredient' flavors instead of copies of flavors.

Most of my favorites are florals, herbs, spices and the like. Actual roses, violets, hops, cloves, anise, cinnamon, catmint, leaves, herbs, roots, cocoa beans, etc. Those aren't really susceptible to duplication because they're so complex and contain a huge range of organic compounds. The don't 'taste like' anything else.

Probably the best example of an ejuice that simply can not be duplicated is Frontier Vapor's Hops line. There's absolutely no way any lab on this planet can copy all the complexity of hops. If there were, every large commercial beer maker on the planet would use it. Hops are expensive and very finicky to get right, being highly dependent on soil, weather conditions and the like. In order to get a consistent hops flavor, they'd jump at an exact duplicate in a heartbeat.

But if that's not your thing, then great. I'm vaping on Cherry Limeade right now that's pure artificial. It's delicious. Not the same thing, but hey, I like Sonic's Cherry Limeade as well. It too has nothing to do with the original, except maybe the slice of lime they float on it to give it a little extra kick.

However, speaking of hops, I think I'm going to do something really risky ... I'm going to get a beer.

 

[rabernet]

Interesting read thus far. And I had just read this on Ahlusion's site a few days ago, which I found interesting on Natural vs. Artificial Flavorings.

First, let’s clear up some definitions, followed by taking a look at the sources of natural and artificial flavorings and the overall impact both have on our environment. Yes, I did say environment and no, we’re not tree huggers – I just feel it is important to mention that last aspect.

According to the Code of Federal Regulations, natural flavors or flavorings means “the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. Natural flavors include the natural essence or extractives obtained from plants” (Code of Federal Regulations).

In regards to Artificial flavors or flavorings the code defines these as “any substance, the function of which is to impart flavor, which is not derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf or similar plant material, meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof”.

Those are simply the legal definitions, but let’s take a closer look at the “practical” differences between the flavors. From a chemical standpoint, there is no substantive difference between natural vs artificial flavorings, except for the source these identical chemicals are derived from; natural flavorings are “simply” derived from a natural source, while the identical artificial flavor chemical is “synthesized”.

A perfect example is Coconut flavoring and with this I’ll also mention the environmental impact of creating either type of flavoring. Coconut main flavoring compound is Massoia lactone – an alkyl lactone derived from the bark of the Massoia tree found primarily in Malaysia. Since only the bark is used to create a natural coconut flavoring, the tree itself is left to die after harvesting! Massoia lactone, however can be synthesized at a far less monetary and especially environmental cost.

Asides from the environmental impact of natural flavoring, there are other differences. Mother Nature has no restrictions on using toxic chemicals, whereas the flavor chemist does. Synthesized (or artificial) flavorings are under so much more scrutiny and control it is safe to say that these might actually be as pure as they can be without the impurities. So don't get too caught up on whether or not to use natural or artifical flavorings; instead look at the source and quality of the flavorings.

In this short article, I’ve tried to illustrate why natural flavorings are far more expensive than artificial flavorings and that they are in fact no better in quality, nor are they necessarily safer, than their cost-effective synthesized counterparts. This is also the reason we only have certain natural flavorings currently available – ones we can reproduce with a minimum impact on our pocket books but most importantly, our environment.

 

[Mazinny]

Interesting read thus far. And I had just read this on Ahlusion's site a few days ago, which I found interesting on Natural vs. Artificial Flavorings.

i believe the original article was published in business insider. there is a link a few pages back in this thread, i believe.