So how is it possible that all that is exhaled is water vapor?

[Jessara]

@ rolygate and dna....

Like dna said, I am by no means like the avid naysayers when I question what is in ...for lack of a better term... secondhand vapor. I'm not even *that* concerned with what I'm inhaling because I have researched PG and VG, and of course I know what nicotine does. I'm not that concerned with my inhilation of these things because I *know* they are hella safer than the analogs. But I do now vape in my house (we used to smoke outside only), and I'd like to know what's in the air my daughter, my MIL and my cats are breathing.

 

[throatkick]

So why hasn't ECF started a drive for this? I'd expect to find one of those giant cheesy thermometers on the front page indicating the monetary progress towards a vapor study.

A good solid study needs to be done. Very few, if any, disagree with this.

I would gladly donate a respectable amount for this purpose. I would have to know all the details as many times ulterior motives play a large part in studies. I saw the site mentioned and it just seems like one of those donate 5 bucks, thermometer type things.

I would need to know the full costs, the lab they intend to use, how the data will be used etc. Anyway, you get the idea.
PMs on this topic welcome.

 

[dna]

I just emailed the BU study to sign up (which is, reading closely a "focus group" which could mean a lot of things, but is also potentially just a prelim for a real study.) BU certainly has the resources to perform a real study, so it seems worth supporting.

It will take a while, of course. Real research does, but I'd like to know. Really "know." In a way, the lack of support for vaping in the US might help this process - there won't be any special interests involved the way there are with Big Tobacco.

 

[Brewlady]

I signed up for emails here Join Watch Group electronic cigarette ban - ecigs ecigarette. The emails contain lots of info, if you're interested I'd be happy to forward a few previous emails to you if you would like to pm your email address to me.

The main page on National Vapers Club - Meeting Place for lovers of e-cigarettes, personal vaporizers and all things "fog" producing! has a request for Boston Area vapers to participate in a study, also.

 

[rolygate]

@Sniper
Well, we have a lot of things going on here...

If NVC asked, we would try to accommodate them as it's worth doing. It's definitely something the community should get behind, it qualifies as one of those things that actually physically exist and have a result, as against just emailing someone and thinking you've done your duty.

It would be interesting to see what the average amount vapers donate is. I know some people put in $50 or $100, seems a lot but you need to figure what the downside could be - big pharma trying to crush us and government helping.

The thermometer thingy is on their site, by the way

 

[Jessara]

A good solid study needs to be done. Very few, if any, disagree with this.

I would gladly donate a respectable amount for this purpose. I would have to know all the details as many times ulterior motives play a large part in studies. I saw the site mentioned and it just seems like one of those donate 5 bucks, thermometer type things.

I would need to know the full costs, the lab they intend to use, how the data will be used etc. Anyway, you get the idea.
PMs on this topic welcome.

I completely understand what you're saying. I think years of "government studies" have jaded my impressions of just how reliable studies are. Anyone can do a "study" and produce results that sway one way or another. I get concerned when people say the studies need to be done by e-cigarette users so they know how to correctly use the devices being used. No, it doesn't have to be e-cig users - just needs to be someone that knows how the devices work. On the otherhand, I don't want some "government"-type study either that could be "swayed" by all kinds of factors including big donations from the big tobacco companies.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't want a study that starts off trying to prove or disprove whether exhaled vapor is "safe" or not. When you START a study trying to prove something, well... you can prove anything you want to. Just do some tests on inhaled and exhaled vapor from a variety of pv's/juices/nic levels, etc, post the results of what is exhaled, and tell us what those results mean.

 

[dna]

@ rolygate and dna....

Like dna said, I am by no means like the avid naysayers when I question what is in ...for lack of a better term... secondhand vapor. I'm not even *that* concerned with what I'm inhaling because I have researched PG and VG, and of course I know what nicotine does. I'm not that concerned with my inhilation of these things because I *know* they are hella safer than the analogs. But I do now vape in my house (we used to smoke outside only), and I'd like to know what's in the air my daughter, my MIL and my cats are breathing.

Exactly. I mean, such a study may lead to the banning of vaping indoors, which would be a shame since I think that a lot of the anti-smoking stuff has to do more with the smell of smoking (and as someone who worked in a bar during a non-smoking period, yeah, that's a real thing, I used to have a shirt that I would only wear there.) But in spite of popular opinion, in general, I think smokers and vapers alike are generally people who do CARE about the people around them and would like everyone to make an informed decision. As long as it is based on research and not rumor.

 

[rolygate]

@Throatkick
I know it's hard to get a feel for the people behind a research project funding appeal from their website - but consider this: do you think you would be better served if the site looked really professional and made you feel your dollar was going to a good home?

I don't know - this is how government gets your vote and big business gets your money. It all looks legit, but they are spinning you some of the time.

A better arrangement for your security, and so that you know the deal is genuine, is for the community to judge it and tell you the real deal - like in open-source software.

In this particular case, you can donate to NVC with full confidence that your money will really help. We say so and so does CASAA, the e-cig community association. I think that at some stage in the near future ECF will be putting a lot more visible weight behind the IVAQS funding drive and we'll be happy to do so. There are a ton of people working really hard in the background on your behalf, and they deserve your support. No question.

 

[throatkick]

@Throatkick
I know it's hard to get a feel for the people behind a research project funding appeal from their website - but consider this: do you think you would be better served if the site looked really professional and made you feel your dollar was going to a good home?

Despite the "thermometer thingy" comment I made, I think it is clear that isn't my real issue. I actually like the thermometer!

I don't know - this is how government gets your vote and big business gets your money. It all looks legit, but they are spinning you some of the time.

Many assumptions here. It is very clear to me what is legit, what isn't, who works the system, how they work the system, why they work the system and what the conclusion is. Perhaps erroneously on my part, I spent a considerable amount of years studying and cross referencing "the illusion"

I have approached vaping with the same amount of zeal and have learned much from you and other knowledgeable posts. That being said, just because I am new here doesn't mean that I don't have my area of expertise, the ability to share knowledge, a very strong desire to put this "study" issue to rest and the connections to provide the means.

A better arrangement for your security, and so that you know the deal is genuine, is for the community to judge it and tell you the real deal - like in open-source software.

This is what has been going on thus far with very limited results. Please understand, I am not questioning the intent. I am saying, regardless of the results, there is a roadmap that needs to be followed in order for this study to have maximum impact.

While I am a big fan of open source software and the model in general, it does have certain drawbacks especially in a case like this. Again, I am not questioning the intent. I actually applaud it.

In this particular case, you can donate to NVC with full confidence that your money will really help. We say so and so does CASAA, the e-cig community association. I think that at some stage in the near future ECF will be putting a lot more visible weight behind the IVAQS funding drive and we'll be happy to do so. There are a ton of people working really hard in the background on your behalf, and they deserve your support. No question.

You obviously know what I am eluding to and I can see where you are headed. Should there be any additional interest, contact me.

Thank you.

 

[frequentj]

Okay, this makes more sense. I guess the "it's just water vapor" thing is more of a claim to explain to non-smokers what the stuff in the air basically is.

So I guess I'm going to keep up not vaping near the two year old, though I'm not going to go outside, merely on the logic that what is "okay" for a 37 year old ex-smoker might be less so for a toddler with clean pink lungs and there's no point in risking it. No reason to subject him to anything, he's not the one that smoked, lol.

Hey, I'm also a 37 year old (hopefully) ex-smoker with a two-year old. You're right, even though I don't feel bad about vaping in the house, I don't want her to see it on the off chance she thinks it's some kind of fun toy (and of course I don't want her to think that inhaling anything other than air is good)!

 

[dna]

Hey, I'm also a 37 year old (hopefully) ex-smoker with a two-year old. You're right, even though I don't feel bad about vaping in the house, I don't want her to see it on the off chance she thinks it's some kind of fun toy (and of course I don't want her to think that inhaling anything other than air is good)!

Yeah. I mean, I went to great lengths to have him avoid seeing me smoke (in his whole life, it's probably less than a dozen times and many of those were directly related to a long airplane-related fiasco this fall.) I would like to my son to not grow up assuming that adults put cylinders in their mouth and suck on them. A nicotine-free life is, ultimately, for the best. But the ability to vape in the house does relieve a lot of anxiety and stress for me, and make me able to give him more of my full attention. There are two issues with little kids - one is second hand stuff, which is documented with smoking, not 100% clear with vaping - the other is "modeling" behavior which seems like it's basically the same no matter which you are doing and best to avoid whenever possible.

Like all moms, we're just looking for less reasons to feel, like, constantly guilty about everything, right?