Some pretty noobish DIY questions

[Abe_Katz]

Right so, last Saturday, I finally got my order from Wizard Labs. I got my nicotine and PG and VG from them. I've done some simple mixes. I made an unflavored--which is well vapable but it doesn't taste like anything. And I made a menthol which I'm somewhat pleased with though it seems to be missing the tobacco flavor (which I want with the menthol--or well something else plus menthol).

So I have a few noobish questions (no they are not related to ratios, calcualtors or any of that--I practiced that repeatedly until I had an understanding of it also I've done psuedo-diy before extensively [also I've found its faster for me to not use a calculator app and instead revert to paper and pencil--in before someone tells me "you're doing it wrong"]).

1. With flavoring, is it a good idea to experiment with flavors using a 0mg nicotine base juice in a drip atomizer? What I'm really asking is does the nicotine itself affect the flavoring? I've noticed with my pre-made juices that I got more flavor as I've slowly dialed back the nicotine. So I need to know if that is in my head, or if there is an actual taste to the nicotine that I may need to compensate for.

My initial plan is to work out my flavoring recipes first and then add those to a filled bottle of premixed base juice containing my standard amount of nicotine (in my case 15mg). I was going to use 1ml of the 0mg juice to test drops per ml to add.

2. In making my very simple juices (the Unflavored and the Menthol Only) I noticed that the VG was incredibly thick and was difficult for me to suck up with my pipette. Is there some way to make it less viscous without adding distilled water or PG to it?

3. How much is DIY juice an art vs. it being a science? I'll give an example of what I mean from cooking (since my profession is chef) Baking a cake would be a science. You have to follow the recipe to the letter or the cake will be ruined there is no room for error. Wheras making gravy is an art. You have to make it based upon experience both personal and shared of how much liquid a roux will absorb and is effected by such things as time of day, humidity in the room and so on.

 

[amiller36]

Nicotine dilutes your flavoring - you are right to say the lower levels of nic are usualy higher in flavor (but you can fix that with DIY). The way you are thinking is the way I did it - 0mg then adding nic after - then adding flavor to my liking.

I mixed my pg/vg together to make it easier to handle. Do not mix it ALL together, but having a nice batch of mixed pg/vg does make it a ton easier to use pipets and blunt nose needle syringes. I use a 50/50 mix - love it - some people swear by not going above 30% vg ever. Find what works for you - pre mix it.

DIY art or science? Exactly what you want it to be. As you said, there are recipes that you can follow exactly and come out with a wonderful flavor - get as simple or as complex of recipes as you want and be very scientific about mixing them exactly. The art side is your trial and error, your test and retest, the finding of the "perfect all day vape" for you. The best part of DIY is you can get exactly what you want. For me - its an art. I want to experiment and adjust recipes to exactly what I want. To each his own

 

[Abe_Katz]

Indeed my thoughts were that since nicotine liquid is rather expensive for me but PG and VG are not what I would do since I'm probably going to have to experiment with the flavoring quite a bit to get it to my liking was to use a 0mg for testing and once I have the drops of flavor to ml figured out then add it to a previously made liquid. In my case 60/40 pg/vg at 15mg (I find I prefer 60/40--probably because I got used to vaping Hooligan Vapes and Upstomp's juices).

I'm slowly working down my nicotine though I have no plans to get off it entirely.

The problem I'm having with the VG being too viscus is before I mix it with PG or anything else. I'm wondering if warming it may loosen it up a bit. Or if there is perhaps an other trick to it.

As far as the science part in mixing for me, it has to be the mg/ml level that I'm most concerned about. I want to have that right. The PG/VG ratio and measuring for flavoring I'm less concerned about. For me it is likely to be more of an art form--I'm a pretty good chef (20+ years experience) but not so good at things like baking.

 

[Red_Bird]

Nicotine changes the flavor profile slightly.

Use a 14 gauge blunt tip needle for drawing up VG, its kinda thick for 16 or 18 gauge tips.

For measuring out large batches of eliquid components you can buy Anchor Hocking glassware that has the measurements on the side. I sometimes just pour VG into this and dispense the pg, nic and flavoring via different sized syringes:

 

[Charlie C]

I too was a chef and have had a lot of exposure to the wine industry.
It's given me just enough knowledge to make me look at DIYing in a slightly different way.
May be the WRONG way but it’s the results that count.

I am NOT an expert, far from it and my response is merely what works for me IMHO.
Not all the unicorn farts and butterfly tears have been discovered but I’m moving in the right direction for MY taste buds. See Hoosier blogs.

DIY is indeed both an art form and a science.
(BTW I am not one of those that look at a pastry chef as merely being a science. To be a great pastry chef one needs creativity as well.)

Nicotine WILL and DOES add considerable flavor. Many forms of nic juice are peppery and in its raw form the smell is far from pleasant.
There are ways to rid this (to some extent anyway)
One SHOULD develop their nic juice.

VG is thick and therefore it may require Dist.Water or alcohol to thin. Experiment.

Naturally your delivery system, whether it be a carto, carto tank, clearo or a dripping RBA are going to be crucial elements in determining the correct viscosity and therefore one should take into consideration their delivery system when mixing.
As many know, thicker VG juices don't always vape well in a carto or carto tank.
When I want to vape thick VG juices (which I love) I use a dripping RBA or a IKV i06 atty with drip tip.
(OR at times if I only have a carto hanging around I'll simply add a few drops of DW.)

Most vapers seem to prefer a higher PG base; say a 70/30 base.

You may certainly vape a flavor concentrate with pg/vg to test but adding nic juice will alter the flavor AND your perception so I test my flavors with nic juice. I bypass the step of mixing/steeping flavor concentrates in solely PG or VG. Don't see the point.

I cannot underscore the importance of developing flavors individually.
This is one step that is frequently overlooked. Perhaps due to many wanting immediate results.

Most concentrated flavors require additional developing and much steeping to bring out the richness.

I always have as many as 15 single flavors steeping in my nic base (with various additives depending on the flavor) When the time comes to mixing a blueberry crumble tobacco I have three bottles of flavors that are steeped and ready for mixing.

I steep my flavors for a minimum of 3 weeks now.
THIS works for me and as I said before it’s the results that count.

Vaping IS an art form and a science too.
However we learn from trial and error and one man’s practice may seem ludicrous but if it works it works.

BTW……. I use Nature’s Flavors and Capella’s for the most part.

 

[Hoosier]

--in before someone tells me "you're doing it wrong"]).

You're doing it wrong. You have to be. Being all read up and practiced before you get anything just doesn't fit...

1. With flavoring, is it a good idea to experiment with flavors using a 0mg nicotine base juice in a drip atomizer? What I'm really asking is does the nicotine itself affect the flavoring? I've noticed with my pre-made juices that I got more flavor as I've slowly dialed back the nicotine. So I need to know if that is in my head, or if there is an actual taste to the nicotine that I may need to compensate for.

Different nicotines have different tastes and it really depends on which nicotine you're using. I use a very clean nic and don't notice a difference in taste between 48 to 18mg/ml.

My initial plan is to work out my flavoring recipes first and then add those to a filled bottle of premixed base juice containing my standard amount of nicotine (in my case 15mg). I was going to use 1ml of the 0mg juice to test drops per ml to add.

OK

2. In making my very simple juices (the Unflavored and the Menthol Only) I noticed that the VG was incredibly thick and was difficult for me to suck up with my pipette. Is there some way to make it less viscous without adding distilled water or PG to it?

Some have good luck gently warming it. I've been known to put some PGA into it to thin it. Mostly I use syringes that have a larger opening than the standard luer and don't have an issue.

3. How much is DIY juice an art vs. it being a science? I'll give an example of what I mean from cooking (since my profession is chef) Baking a cake would be a science. You have to follow the recipe to the letter or the cake will be ruined there is no room for error. Wheras making gravy is an art. You have to make it based upon experience both personal and shared of how much liquid a roux will absorb and is effected by such things as time of day, humidity in the room and so on.

Developing a mix is more art. Repeating it is more science. If you don't mind making something fantastic and never being able to repeat it then it's all art. If you just want to repeat what others have done then it's all science. As in cooking, there are some that can seamlessly do both with mixing.

An example of this in cooking was my grandmother who could make an apple pie taste exactly the same fantastic way with the same texture regardless of the type of apples she started with for the pie and she never used a recipe. (And if you got her to write a recipe down, it never worked for you, so to learn it you had to do it repeatedly in front of her so she could guide you until you got it. That is why my sister "has" the Slickem recipe while we all have the same ingredient list and instructions, only my sister can make them right. (An odd cross between a dumpling and noodle that is a staple of our family dinners.) An why I "have" some others like the Cheeseball. (Seriously, something as simple as a cheeseball, but the trick is knowing the correct texture of the ingredients and a certain way to prep combine them makes a huge difference.) I could never learn the gravies. Grandmother was just too darn good at gravy and I'm forever ruined to any other gravy...