Some sub ohm ?s beginner noob

[veganvap]

I didn't read much on sub/micro coils yet. Mashing questions together and seeing what I get. Hoping for a full quote and dissection reply.

I'll be making dual coils with an RDA like a Trident/nimbus/IGO.

I'm use a plastic Smoktech Groove which was recalled but I've never had a problem with it in like 5 months. There are others still using the plastic Grooves without a problem. I couldn't find a single issue ever reported with the plastic version. The problem was with the metal version which had a physical design flaw that's not found on the plastic version, but they recalled them both because of 'protection'. I think my Groove passed every protection test possible numerous times.

Anyway, the Groove maxes at 5 Amps 15 Watt 6 Volt.
I asked before if dual coils were okay on an MVP Version 2 but didn't mention that I'm pretty sure it only has a 3 Amp max like Version 1.

Amp calculator: Voltage current resistance and electric power general basic formulas calculations calculator formula of watts general electrical pie chart electricity calculation - electrical voltage power formula equation general ohms law audio physics electricity
If I calculate 1.3 ohms resistance and 5 Volts (MVP's max 5V), the Amps are 3.8 (higher than MVPs 3A max) and Watts are 19.2 (higher than MVP's 11 max). So when people said 'just don't use ohms under 1.3', they really meant 'don't exceed the MOD's Amp or Watt limit'?

I've accidentally tried sub ohms with the Groove and it just flashes 'low ohm'. That just means I tried to draw more than it's 5 Amp limit, and that it has built-in protection and I don't have to ever worry about drawing more than 5 Amps?
I'm not familiar with the MVP or other VV mods, but I'd assume they'd just flash a warning if more Amps/watts were attempted than it could push.
if I try to draw too many Amps from a VV mod that has Amp limit protection, which they probably all do, it should just not fire and maybe read 'low ohm', but with a mechanical, it would fire anyway and potentially explode, correct? Everyone mentions safety with sub ohms, but isn't it harmless on a VV mod with amp protection?
Mechanicals are more popular for high-watts because they're a lot cheaper than high-watt VV mods like a DNA20 which has amp protection and therefore wouldn't pose a safety concern? (or is that the DNA20 is only 20W, and a common 3.7V .3ohm sub ohm coil is 45.6Wats and therefore not do-able on a 20W DNA20? But aren't there 40W non-mech mods besides the new Gi2 40W?)

Accordig to an Amp calculator, with a limit of 5 Amp 6V 15W(Smok Groove) I can do .6 ohm at 3V which equals 15Watts and 5A. If I do 6V with a 1.2 ohm resistance, It's still 5 Amps, but 30 Watts.
I could raise the ohm and volts but that would start leaning more towards a micro coil instead of sub ohm which is a whole nother debate?

I don't really understand sub ohms, I mean, the watts are like 20X past what an e-cig volt chart and myself know as a burnt hit. I'd think you'd get maybe half a second of great dense vapor and then a horrible burn, but I see long hits on sub ohms in videos.

The difference between sub ohm and micro coil is? = micro coil is still a very low ohm so it doesn't take long to heat up and give off a lot of vapor, It's just not under 1ohm. The reason for many wraps with low resistance (thick) wire is to get a lot of surface area for more vapor production and the ohms don't get too high with thick wire and thus high watts are possible?

TY

 

[veganvap]

bump
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[patrao_n]

Ok ill bite. If your mod has protection it wouldnt even attempt to fire a sub ohm coil. You need to keep your coils within range of your mods limits. A mech wont necessarily explode. If you are using legitimate high drain batteries(meaning no battery with the name fire in it) you can safely vape with a .6 ohm coil. I say safe meaning as safe as the user is capable of. If you dont have a multimeter or have knock off batteries there could be a big problem and fire will ensue. For some the 20 watts is enough from the dna 20. Some want even more. I prefer micro coils but I am still waiting on my mech mod to come in. Micro coils dont have to be low ohms though. Some people are quite happy with a 3 ohm micro coil. Not sure if I covered everything. If not im sure baditude or someone will be along shortly. Goodluck

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

 

[danny4x4]

The difference between sub ohm and micro coil is? = micro coil is still a very low ohm so it doesn't take long to heat up and give off a lot of vapor, It's just not under 1ohm. The reason for many wraps with low resistance (thick) wire is to get a lot of surface area for more vapor production and the ohms don't get too high with thick wire and thus high watts are possible?

TY

I'll just attempt to answer this part of the questions as best as I can.
Microcoils DO NOT have to be low in resistance. It started when super_X_drifter pioneered/popularised the microcoils with cotton at "standard" resistance, typically 2ohms and above to achieve the same flavor, throat hit and vapor on a regulated mod.

Microcoils is not about surface area. After all, 2 inches of wire will cover the same surface area regardless of the number of coils. I believe it's more about thermal??? (can't remember the scientific term). Look at the heating element on an electric kettle or water heater and you'll get my drift. Hence in microcoils, the coils are touching and the size of the inner diameter comes into play too.

You may have started reading the microcoil thread by super_X_drifter from the back. I would encourage you to start from the very beginning. It's a long long read. The orang utan, the housefly, the guy who eats tyres, mundy,..... etc. Lol. They are all experienced, know their batteries, and have safety precautions. Hence they build sub ohm microcoils.

So, in conclusion, you don't have to go subohm with micro coils. Even a micro coil at 1.8ohms vapes terrifically on a mechanical.

If I'm wrong in any way, please correct me.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Will read this later.

 

[StarsAndBars]

Do you feel the need to use 5 volts with a 1.3 ohm coil? A vv device will do one of two things if you exceed its amp limit. It will cut off and not fire under that load (preferably), or it will fire (means the cutoff is malfunctioning) and damage your battery, or your face. Do you really want to trust your face to the build quality of a Chinese mod?

Too many question marks for me to address but it sounds like you have at least a basic idea of volt/ohm=amp thing. There is really not much else to say. If the coil you build and the voltage you apply results in a higher amp draw than any battery is safely rated for, you are risking being disfigured, or killed.

When it comes to micro coils, the point is to get the same vapor without going sub ohm. This is achieved by using lower resistance wire, but making more coil wraps which means you are simply using more of it to create the same resistance. I am using a micro coil on an MVP (yes 3 amp limit) that is ringing out at 2 ohms. At 4.8 volts its pulling 2.4 amps which is well within the safe range I feel, and it vapes very well. The benefit is having so many more wraps, it's almost as if I have 2 coils.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you want to be able to pull high amperage, you're really gonna need to get a mechanical with a high amp rated drop in battery.

 

[Ryedan]

I've accidentally tried sub ohms with the Groove and it just flashes 'low ohm'. That just means I tried to draw more than it's 5 Amp limit, and that it has built-in protection and I don't have to ever worry about drawing more than 5 Amps?

No. It means the coil resistance was too low. It's basically short protection. You generally also have over-current protection. Sometimes the mod doesn't fire when that activates and sometimes it does fire but at a power level within the amp limit.

if I try to draw too many Amps from a VV mod that has Amp limit protection, which they probably all do, it should just not fire

Yes, or fire at acceptable amperage, as long as the circuit works. The protection is not designed to be used regularly and can degrade or simply fail.

but with a mechanical, it would fire anyway and potentially explode, correct?

Correct. The solution is to not go over the amp limit of the battery and to use batteries that are least likely to burn if they vent. The AW 18650 1600 mAh is one of the safest around AFAIK.

 

[abstractcousin]

sub ohm coils on a 3.7v battery and microcoil builds on a vv mod can have the same wattage but are different because of amps. you wont get the same performance out of microcoils as you will with sub ohm because the amps produced with microcoils are lower than that of sub ohm builds.

hope this helps

 

[JMarca]

Stop... put the wick and wire down.

Buy a decent multi-meter doesn't have to be expensive something like this should do, a decent charger like this. Now research, read this then read this after you've done ALL of this come back to this thread and we'll be glad to answer any questions that might still remain but please, please don't jump head first into sub-ohm'ing without doing your homework first.

 

[corsairhawkvap3]

I didn't read much on sub/micro coils yet. Mashing questions together and seeing what I get. Hoping for a full quote and dissection reply.

I'll be making dual coils with an RDA like a Trident/nimbus/IGO.

I'm use a plastic Smoktech Groove which was recalled but I've never had a problem with it in like 5 months. There are others still using the plastic Grooves without a problem. I couldn't find a single issue ever reported with the plastic version. The problem was with the metal version which had a physical design flaw that's not found on the plastic version, but they recalled them both because of 'protection'. I think my Groove passed every protection test possible numerous times.

Anyway, the Groove maxes at 5 Amps 15 Watt 6 Volt.
I asked before if dual coils were okay on an MVP Version 2 but didn't mention that I'm pretty sure it only has a 3 Amp max like Version 1.

Amp calculator: Voltage current resistance and electric power general basic formulas calculations calculator formula of watts general electrical pie chart electricity calculation - electrical voltage power formula equation general ohms law audio physics electricity
If I calculate 1.3 ohms resistance and 5 Volts (MVP's max 5V), the Amps are 3.8 (higher than MVPs 3A max) and Watts are 19.2 (higher than MVP's 11 max). So when people said 'just don't use ohms under 1.3', they really meant 'don't exceed the MOD's Amp or Watt limit'?

I've accidentally tried sub ohms with the Groove and it just flashes 'low ohm'. That just means I tried to draw more than it's 5 Amp limit, and that it has built-in protection and I don't have to ever worry about drawing more than 5 Amps?
I'm not familiar with the MVP or other VV mods, but I'd assume they'd just flash a warning if more Amps/watts were attempted than it could push.
if I try to draw too many Amps from a VV mod that has Amp limit protection, which they probably all do, it should just not fire and maybe read 'low ohm', but with a mechanical, it would fire anyway and potentially explode, correct? Everyone mentions safety with sub ohms, but isn't it harmless on a VV mod with amp protection?
Mechanicals are more popular for high-watts because they're a lot cheaper than high-watt VV mods like a DNA20 which has amp protection and therefore wouldn't pose a safety concern? (or is that the DNA20 is only 20W, and a common 3.7V .3ohm sub ohm coil is 45.6Wats and therefore not do-able on a 20W DNA20? But aren't there 40W non-mech mods besides the new Gi2 40W?)

Accordig to an Amp calculator, with a limit of 5 Amp 6V 15W(Smok Groove) I can do .6 ohm at 3V which equals 15Watts and 5A. If I do 6V with a 1.2 ohm resistance, It's still 5 Amps, but 30 Watts.
I could raise the ohm and volts but that would start leaning more towards a micro coil instead of sub ohm which is a whole nother debate?

I don't really understand sub ohms, I mean, the watts are like 20X past what an e-cig volt chart and myself know as a burnt hit. I'd think you'd get maybe half a second of great dense vapor and then a horrible burn, but I see long hits on sub ohms in videos.

The difference between sub ohm and micro coil is? = micro coil is still a very low ohm so it doesn't take long to heat up and give off a lot of vapor, It's just not under 1ohm. The reason for many wraps with low resistance (thick) wire is to get a lot of surface area for more vapor production and the ohms don't get too high with thick wire and thus high watts are possible?

TY

Alright let me take a stab at this. First if your using a VV/VW device you don't have to worry about the amp limits on the battery since the device's circuit board has protection. Most vv/vw devices will not let your fire a 1.2 or lower ohm, you'll usually either get the "short" sign or low ohm sign.

As long you build a coil above at least 1.3 ohms, the Groove should fire that coil perfectly fine. When people say "don't use ohms under 1.3 ohms" it means don't use 1.3 ohm coils on a vv/vw device because it won't fire no matter what xD

So about the sub-ohm subject now. Vaping at sub ohm is having a coil with a resistance of anything lower than 1.0 ohm. Micro coils are just a type of coil design that people use since it gives good flavor and vapor production but this is my opinion. When it comes to building a coil it's personal preference. Some people like micro coils and some people just like using 2/3 wraps, 3/4 wraps etc.

Also having multiple wraps with a micro coil does give you more surface area to vaporize e liquid but doesn't always mean that it will give you more vapor production. There are many factors when it comes down to producing vapor production which i don't feel like getting into since there would be too much to cover xD

Hope this helps
Vape On =)

 

[JMarca]

Accordig to an Amp calculator, with a limit of 5 Amp 6V 15W(Smok Groove) I can do .6 ohm at 3V which equals 15Watts and 5A. If I do 6V with a 1.2 ohm resistance, It's still 5 Amps, but 30 Watts.
I could raise the ohm and volts but that would start leaning more towards a micro coil instead of sub ohm which is a whole nother debate?

Or you could do 4.2v @ 1.2 Ohm which is only 14.7w with a 3.5 amp draw and have the exact same vape all within your equipment's margins. Please read my links on my other post above, they will greatly help you understand how Ohm's Law works.

 

[veganvap]

thanks for the replies.
they shoud re-name micro coils as jumbo coils or fat coils or something.

I don't really understand sub ohms, I mean, the watts are like 20X past what an e-cig volt chart and myself know as a burnt hit. I'd think you'd get maybe half a second of great dense vapor and then a horrible burn, but I see long hits on sub ohms in videos.

 

[corsairhawkvap3]

thanks for the replies.
they shoud re-name micro coils as jumbo coils or fat coils or something.

I don't really understand sub ohms, I mean, the watts are like 20X past what an e-cig volt chart and myself know as a burnt hit. I'd think you'd get maybe half a second of great dense vapor and then a horrible burn, but I see long hits on sub ohms in videos.

You'd be surprised on how many hit you could get on a sub ohm build. Most people have enough wicking material in there build to absorb 10+ drops of e-liquid. But before you try to dive in into sub-ohm, please read the threads that Jmarca has linked to and also do more research. Try to learn as much as you can from all the threads that are posted on this forum and other forums. Vape safe my friend =)

 

[Butters78]

I like my microcoils.

I know people think sub ohms are cool and what not but you show a YouTube video of someone blowing huge clouds to a non vaper and they'll say, "why the hell is that guy trying to look like a dragon?"

 

[veganvap]

yeah there's a lot to understand before correctly doing sub ohms. I just learned the actual drip tanks have an amp limit themselves.
I'm just going to do RDA dual coils, micros with ribbon wire, then maybe the 40W Gi2 box mod will have been cloned and I'll get that to make things easier and safer.