Thanks dream. That's not the study report I was looking for but the conclusions are the same as is the product design. In a nut shell the "dry leaf" vapor is on par with light cigs and not really better than smoking. Now you guys using NET liquids have something new to ponder since the only difference I can see is your not leaving the tobacco in the liquid like the BT dry leaf product
some thoughts on "dry leaf", legislation, and ECF
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Find the study you were referring to because, at a minimum, Dr Gregory N Connolly is about as Anti tobacco/Nicotine as they come. Of course the only good nicotine comes from BP as we all should be aware by this time. He left the FDA advisory panel for personal reasons and acknowledged he wasn't well received there. I liken him to GlANTZ.
I do not know anything about those products.
I do, however, know very well that the last people whom I would trust for truthful information about the product is - Tobacco Control.
Read Glands and his buddies on ecigs and you will know what I mean.
Now, please tell me what product they are talking about.
Sure sounds to me like they are talking about ecigs. I have read all this before, many many times....
I am willing to give the dry leave alternative the benefit of the doubt right now. Until I can learn more about it.
But I am most certainly not willing to "learn about it" from the same people who declare as "safe and effective" a mind-altering drug which has been responsible for over 500 suicides and over 1800 attempted suicides in the US alone. Thank you but no thank you.
These people have been working off Godber's blueprint for decades. If it wasn't 2014, you might think it was 1914. Science has left the building as the end (as they see it) justifies any means they use. Smoking isn't good for you if you're physiology doesn't handle smoke well. However using a continuously increasing base of diseases effected by smoking to create smoking related mortality and changing to word smoking to tobacco or nicoting products (e cigs) makes it difficult to believe much of what comes out of tobacco control. After all, these people need to make a good living doing basically nothing but trying to control others.
We're all posting here and I can guarantee almost all of us will be part of a smoking mortality statistic. They were trying to pry out of my 95 year old mother whether she was a smoker or if she ever smoked. They want to get that box checked in your records so you too can become a statistic. We constantly told them no but we know she smoked at least once. She tells us she had only one cigarette but she doesn't remember anything but roller skating when she was young so who knows.
What I do know, there are a lot of records with the box checked so they can continue with the campaign. I don't know if they even worry about the "ever smoker" category you are supposed to reach once you have your 100th cigarette. The was originally where the Scarlet Letter was earned. Smoke 100 cigarettes, you became a smoker for life. A 105 year old man who died of one of the growing menu of smoking related disease and had smoked 5 packs when he was 18 and never smoked again is a smoking mortality.
@rothenbj:
Excellent summary.
That is precisely the truth.
@Ca Ike:
Read enough of the ANTZ blathering, lies and knee-jerk responses to anything that does not make them money, and you will catch it immediately, next time. I promise. The Godber blueprint is not called a "blueprint" for nothing.
For the Godber blueprint, see here: Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
Long, but the most useful reading that any vaper can do.
Excellent summary.
That is precisely the truth.
@Ca Ike:
Read enough of the ANTZ blathering, lies and knee-jerk responses to anything that does not make them money, and you will catch it immediately, next time. I promise. The Godber blueprint is not called a "blueprint" for nothing.
For the Godber blueprint, see here: Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
Long, but the most useful reading that any vaper can do.
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Precisely. In their twisted logic, a death at the respectable age of 105 is a premature one - that is, if you have ever smoked in your lifetime
Let's just change the name from ECF to "NDF"- Nicotine Delivery Forum. Would be more fitting, since NONE of this garbage is related to e-cigarettes.
Better stated, the SHRF or Smoker's Harm Reduction Forum since that is what evolved over the last six years. Our eyes were opened, as smokers, to the viable alternatives due to the introduction of Ecigs. So much so that the well crafted war against smokers was justifiably exposed. Propaganda has brought us to a group consciousness that now requires a change in perception to bring us back to reality.
Well that's great I guess. I think changing it to "High Times Hardware" would be better suited though... maybe change the graphics to some illicit plant matter, and require users to say "Heeyyyyy duuuuuuuuuuude, I've got the MUNCHIES!" for their first post.
Aside from the close to inappropriate post, that line of thinking reminds me of the QSMB and it's members. In case you're not familiar with it, purists have taken control of it and quitting smoking is no longer acceptable, you must quit "puffing the nicotine". Even if you are using 0 nic e liquid, you haven't quit smoking because you still have the habit.
As an e cig user, most on that site believes you're just an addict one day away from your next cigarette and they may be right in terms of e cig purists. If the FDA effectively removes all but the most ineffective hardware, suppliers of pharma grade nic are regulated against supplying any company other than FDA approved e cig manufacturers (potentially BT and BV to put into low nic tamper proof cartridges), flavors banned other than tobacco and menthol and unapproved e cig companies are vigorously prosecuted, you're going to have some decisions to make- comply, attempt to procure via the black market, quit, return to smoking or find an alternative to smoking that keeps you from inhaling combustible tobacco.
I know for sure I'm good even if the worst case scenario occurs. Are you?
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Yep I'm fully ready and equipped to handle doomsday. What's this have to do with smoking vs vaping? This is a vaping forum. If adding smoking to the list, the name should be changed and people who don't want to be mixed up in it should be duly informed, so that they can find a real vaping forum rather than be encouraged to pick a proven awful habit back up.
This has nothing to do with smoking. Don't confuse heating dry leaf with burning tobacco. Heating is not burning, thus not smoking.
Au contraire my white puffy friend. Smoke is the product of heating and it is the smoke that is capable of burning.
Strictly speaking there are three types of inhalation practice: smoking (burning the leaf), vaporizing (HnB / heat not burn, and vaporizers, which heat the leaf and don't ignite/burn it), and vaping (a water-based aerosol generated by gently heating an excipient base).
I don't know what the technical term for the vapor produced by heating leaves is, maybe it's smoke. It's different from the smoke produced by burning the leaves, though; it can be considered a THR solution, since it won't contain many of the pyrolytic compounds created by burning ('smoke' constituents).
I think that argument is still ongoing about the exact reduction of risk, but there must be some. No one in public health or regulation cares about these issues because as far as they are concerned, inhalation of anything/everything must be stopped, so there is no real research. Both HnB and nicotine inhaler cigs ('Favor') were blocked by the FDA when it looked as if smoking could continue but more safely, and nobody wants that. Shisha is a similar issue: it's bad mainly because it looks like smoking. There are almost as many lies published about that as for ecigs.
I don't know what the technical term for the vapor produced by heating leaves is, maybe it's smoke. It's different from the smoke produced by burning the leaves, though; it can be considered a THR solution, since it won't contain many of the pyrolytic compounds created by burning ('smoke' constituents).
I think that argument is still ongoing about the exact reduction of risk, but there must be some. No one in public health or regulation cares about these issues because as far as they are concerned, inhalation of anything/everything must be stopped, so there is no real research. Both HnB and nicotine inhaler cigs ('Favor') were blocked by the FDA when it looked as if smoking could continue but more safely, and nobody wants that. Shisha is a similar issue: it's bad mainly because it looks like smoking. There are almost as many lies published about that as for ecigs.
HnB 'vapor produced' comes from heated fuel. It does not combust as there is not sufficient oxygen / air to sustain combustion. True that combusted fuel includes products transformed from fuel that is merely heated. It is also the case that the basis of the transformed products is in the fuel and / or air. A lit match applied to HnB vapor (from tobacco) will surely cause it to burn.
In the case of eliquids, there is no fuel as commonly understood. That vapor is of a completely different nature than the smoke that comes from heated, combusted or non-combusted fuel.
If vapers are to continue to claim the high moral ground by avoiding the Junk Science that the opposition is oft accused of, great care should be given to HnB's potential camel's nose under the tent.
It would seem prudent for the notions of HnB to be reviewed by someone qualified in the realm of heated fuels, both combusted and non-combusted.
In the case of eliquids, there is no fuel as commonly understood. That vapor is of a completely different nature than the smoke that comes from heated, combusted or non-combusted fuel.
If vapers are to continue to claim the high moral ground by avoiding the Junk Science that the opposition is oft accused of, great care should be given to HnB's potential camel's nose under the tent.
It would seem prudent for the notions of HnB to be reviewed by someone qualified in the realm of heated fuels, both combusted and non-combusted.
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