Stacking 2 18350 Battery Question

Status
Not open for further replies.

The Ministry

Moderator
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 27, 2013
1,007
811
Cramlington, Northumberland, UK
This is all so confusing...

I got a Vamo V5 and it came with two 18350 batteries so I just assumed it was perfectly safe to stack them and be done with it.

Starting to wonder now, lot's to read through!

Not wanting to hijack, but it does seem like most people lean towards not stacking and using a single 18650 battery. I'll have to invest in one if this is the case. One 350 is lasting less than 5 hours so no good for long distance driving, or a day in the office :(
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,663
1
84,887
So-Cal
... In addition I would not even use any XXXFIRE brand/non-branded batteries anywhere near my face! ...

This is Very Good Advice.

I don't know what a Trustfire Battery is Anymore. They have been Boot-Legged so much, who knows what is even inside them under the Trustfire Wrapper.
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,663
1
84,887
So-Cal
This is all so confusing...

I got a Vamo V5 and it came with two 18350 batteries so I just assumed it was perfectly safe to stack them and be done with it.

Starting to wonder now, lot's to read through!
...(

If done Correctly, with a Matched Pair of Good Batteries, Stacking shouldn't be a Problem. How many Flashlights have I owned in my Life that used Stacked Batteries?

But something like a Flashlight was designed to have a Certain Amp draw that Never Changed. Where as the Amps that a Stacked Battery Se inside a Mod depends on what the Ohms of the Clearo/Tank/RBA. And what Voltage the user has the Mod set at when He/She pushes the Fire Button.

There is also the Constant pressure of Retailers to have the Lowest Price.

I'm Amazed when I here people say things like... "That $69.95 Vamo Kit is WAY OVERPRICE! So-a-So web site has a kit for $64.49"

So how does So-n-So shave 5 Bucks off the Price of there kit? One way is to use Poorer Quality Batteries.

There is also the Issue that Many Retailers know Very Little about the Products they sell. They just Regurge the Description to their Website of whatever the Wholesaler says about it and then Chuck them into a Box when the Orders come in.

My advice if you want to use Stacked Batteries is do some reading about Battery Types and things like Pairing.
 

The Ministry

Moderator
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 27, 2013
1,007
811
Cramlington, Northumberland, UK
I don't trust myself to be able to rotate them correctly, and would rather not increase the risk of anything blowing up. Reasonably safe isn't good enough really - I'll stop stacking methinks.

Sourced a pair of 18650's from Samsung that will fit the bill.

All I can say is "thank God for this forum"

Excellent advice, as always. Many thanks :)
 

Ranger71d

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 5, 2014
102
88
I use Li Po batteries alot. In RC helicopters. Not the same battery but the basics still apply. Safety has been the major factor in my learning about electrical safety. Specifically in reference to multiple cell battery packs.

Batteries should be matched when used in multiples. True mAh and internal resistance having been measured. The labels aren't the best reference when matching as they are mass produced. And I haven't seen any batteries with IR listed on them, as it increases with use / age. So you have to measure this. And the discharge rate (C rating) should be the same.

What you call stacking is really placing the batteries in Series. Meaning the positive on one is connected to negative on the other. This basically doubles the voltage output. The capacity, measured in mAh in this case, will remain the same.

Running them in Parallel is when the negatives are connected to each other, and the positives are also connected to each other. This doubles the mAh, with the voltage output remaining the same.

Doubling voltage will basically drop amperage by half. But the mod or coil may not be able to handle the extra power.

"C rating" is the discharge rate. It's important, as you don't want one battery discharging faster than the other. IR will have an impact here. So you want batteries with similar IR
Like wise you don't want two different True capacities (mAh).
As the capacity is used up the voltage will drop. This is a predictable ratio based on battery chemistry.
Differing C ratings or true capacities can easily result in one battery becoming over discharging and becoming unstable. And batteries catching fire and or exploding near your face usually falls into the "Not a good day" category.

So when measuring voltage levels on multi battery (cell) devices you'll need to measure each individual cell.

You'll have to research battery chemistry, and the minimum safe voltage and minimum safe capacity of the every battery type you use.

Most LiPo batteries are made at the same few factories. The quality of batteries vary depending on what each company wants to pay. So just because they are made at the same factory, the name on the label can make a difference in quality.
Higher quality batteries will almost always cost more. But they will almost always have a high number of cycles over the course of their life (number of times it can be charged and discharged). Along with lower IR and more consistent mAh rating. You'll end up saving money in the long run.

If you plan to use unmatched batteries in series or parallel I recommend you test them before use. And research the basic info on the battery chemistry you will use. You'll also have research the equipment you use it in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

Furryka

Full Member
Oct 8, 2013
5
0
Olaine
I don't know if i can ask a question here or should I make another post, but since it's kind of related then -

My old charger broke (Universal Charger Model - HG-1206W), it came with Vamo V2 set. Now I'm left with 2 350 (I have no idea what kind of brand they are) and a ML-103 charger. When I stack 2 350 they fit perfectly. I've looked around the google, but could not find an answer. I am not a braniac in those things, but it kinda feels unsafe. Should I try to charge them stacked or I would burn down my house once with those ideas.

Sorry for asking it here again and thank you for help.
 

niczgreat

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 5, 2009
2,500
2,141
Chino California
Those who know me, know that I take the edgier choice.

In my opinion stacking batteries is fine on a regulated mod. [VV] like the Vamo. The system has safeguards that will shut off if there is a problem. If the Mod is mechanical then it's fine as long as they are LIMN technology. Never stack non LIMN on a Mechanical.

Now it's borderline call whether to stack ICR batteries on a Regulated Mod. I've successfully done it without issue but I wouldn't recommend it universally because different VV Mods have different protections. On a Vamos you'd probably be Ok. But do so at your own risk and against the advise of more level heads like Batitude.
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,663
1
84,887
So-Cal
I don't know if i can ask a question here or should I make another post, but since it's kind of related then -

My old charger broke (Universal Charger Model - HG-1206W), it came with Vamo V2 set. Now I'm left with 2 350 (I have no idea what kind of brand they are) and a ML-103 charger. When I stack 2 350 they fit perfectly. I've looked around the google, but could not find an answer. I am not a braniac in those things, but it kinda feels unsafe. Should I try to charge them stacked or I would burn down my house once with those ideas.

Sorry for asking it here again and thank you for help.

When your "Stack Them", do you mean in your Vamo? Or do you mean in your Charger?
 

niczgreat

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 5, 2009
2,500
2,141
Chino California
Danger Will Robinson

Do not ever stack batteries in a charger.
They make Battery extenders for most chargers.

If you are in a hurry and it's the xtar go to a home depot and buy a long Screw, test out the different ones and screw into Positive side. It's a mickey mouse solution but it will work.
 

Attachments

  • Danger_W.jpg
    Danger_W.jpg
    11.6 KB · Views: 14

Furryka

Full Member
Oct 8, 2013
5
0
Olaine
I see, Thank you everyone for kind help and preventing me from burning down something. :rolleyes:

I've done a bit more research on this and found out, that basically the charger just won't handle it.

2x18350 = 8.4 volts fresh from charge
1x18650 = 4.2 volts fresh from charge

Now I know that I probably should not do it, but, theoretically - if I use one 350 in 650 charger and fill blank space for example with tinfoil to make a connection. Would that work out? Sometimes I have "weird" ideas, but before doing anything like that, it's better to ask for opinion. Thanks once again.
 

Furryka

Full Member
Oct 8, 2013
5
0
Olaine
You nee to use better battery like efest or even better cell like vtc,stackin will get your volt doubled but its very risky because li-ion are not made to be stacked

I see, well i do use NCR18650A Li-ion MH12210 - 3100mAh (green colour) in my VV-Nova v2 and Innokin SVD, but the thing is - I'm stuck with 2 18350 and without a proper charger I have no idea what to do with them.

P.S. It's pretty damn hard to find rc-batteries like those and chargers around here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread