Starting to DIY first order,what to get?

[Robbert]

I'm having not so much luck with premixed liquids.
I'm going to start as simple as possible then add flavorings one at a time so I can find out what's causing side effects.
I've heard of a few who vape plain nicotine in pg vg mix no flavoring and seem to like it plain.
If I mix pure vg with 12mg of nicotine in pg will it mix up without any additives and be vape ready?
Im using lizards lab so the nicotine will already be dissolved in pg.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Sorry you are having problems with juice. See post below.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

To answer your question then yes technically you can do that but Nic is sold in strengths from 2mg up thru 100mg in 120ml on up to a gallon.

If you buy 12mg nic and add anything in it, it will dilute the strength of the nic in the final product.

If you buy 24mg then you have room for the final product to be at the strength you are vaping at.

You can look at a few different calculators to help you understand how to accomplish that. eJuice Calculator 4.0 | EcigExpress Archive Cookbook is just one of many good ones out there.

Base level is the strength and amount you buy the nic in. If your nic is 100%pg then enter that.
Target is what nic level you want to have in your finished product. pg and vg can also be set at the ratio you want in final product.
Amount to be made is the size of the bottle you will be mixing in and keep in your final product.
If you want 0 flavoring then do not add anything to those boxes.

On the right side of the calculator it will tell you how much of nic and pg and vg to measure and mix.
Hope this helps

 

[Robbert]

Thanks,

I wasn't for sure if catalyst or heat bathes are needed if nicotine is the only flavor.

 

[DaveP]

EjuiceMeUp is a good juice calculator, but there are others that are also good. Check the reviews on them.

As Sugar_and_Spice said, anything you add to a mix dilutes the mix and changes the percentages slightly. If you add X% of anything (flavors or PG/VG) your original mix nic percentage drops by some amount.

For example, if you start with 10ml of Nic and PG that's originally at 12mg level and add 5% of a flavor, the nic percentage will drop because the total amount of juice has increased by 5%, even though the actual quantity of nic in the juice is the same as before. If you then add VG, then the strength of all previous components of the juice drop again.

This is where the Ejuice calculator shines. As you add things, it will recalculate and tell you what the final result will be. You set the values in percentages for nic, flavors, PG, and VG and as you add things it adjusts the mix amounts to maintain PG/VG ratio, nic, and flavor amounts to add. Once you have finished adding to your mix, then you recalculate and actually mix the components as instructed by the recipe it creates.

It sounds complicated, but it's actually the easiest way to mix juice and produce what you actually want each time you make that recipe. Once you like the result, it's saved so that you can reproduce that juice mix anytime and get it right every time. Make small batches at 5ml or 10ml, tweak them until you get it right, and save the mix formula for future DIY.

This video is a good tutorial on mixing by weight. You can buy a good set of digital scales for about $25 from Amazon.

 

[JCinFLA]

Im using lizards lab so the nicotine will already be dissolved in pg.

I didn't know there's a Lizard's Lab. Did you mean Wizard Labs in FL? Doesn't really matter though, I'm just curious.

As suggested above, I'd get your Nic base at 24mg at a minimum, so it'll be easier to end up with your 12mg final Nic. You'll also want to decide which base (100% PG or 100% VG or combination of both) that you'll order it in.

Before you put out a bunch of money on scales, or large quantities of the PG, VG, and Nic bases...I'd first get smaller quantities of the liquids and some syringes first. Wizard Labs sells 120mL of all of those things, and several sizes of syringes and blunt needle tips. I'd get maybe a couple of the 1mL, 3mL, and 5mL syringes and several of the 14ga blunt needle tips, so you won't have problems getting the VG drawn up into the syringe. That's about the least expensive way you can find out if DIY may work for you.

Work with those amounts of your PG, VG, and Nic Base to see if you can make a flavorless eliquid you enjoy. If you do, and you're sure you want to keep DIY...then order larger quantities of the liquids when you need more. It'll save you money in the longrun!

You can also decide then, if you're going to continue with DIY...if buying some scales will be a wise investment for you, or if you want to stick with measuring by volume using syringes.

Also, if you decide to try some flavorings as well...find some recipes first that you want to make, and then order the flavorings needed for those recipes. Don't just pick out a bunch of flavorings that you think "sound" good. Recipes contain the various "types" of flavorings needed to make the resulting eliquid taste good. However, ordering a bunch of flavorings that simply "sound good to you"...most likely won't include all the types you'll need to make a good eliquid.

 

[Robbert]

Wizards lab.
I'm going to make a 3mg strength of plain nicotine with different ratios of pg:vg until I can eliminate what's causing side effects.I may reduce it down to 1.5mg.
I've read nicotine dissolves in pg best so I'll get nicotine in pg and then both pure vg and pg to build on.
So far my favorites are Prime 15 and Tribecca from halo.
After I find the base I like the first flavor I'll try to make is one of the above,which ever is simplier.

 

[DaveP]

Wizards lab.
I'm going to make a 3mg strength of plain nicotine with different ratios of pg:vg until I can eliminate what's causing side effects.I may reduce it down to 1.5mg.
I've read nicotine dissolves in pg best so I'll get nicotine in pg and then both pure vg and pg to build on.
So far my favorites are Prime 15 and Tribecca from halo.
After I find the base I like the first flavor I'll try to make is one of the above,which ever is simplier.

I agree with JCinFLA about not spending money on scales and other diy equipment until you know what's causing reactions. You can add ingredients and discover what works without seriously affecting your mix for the time being. Once you find out what it is you can decide if you want to spend the money to DIY full scale.

 

[BrotherBob]

Might like to read: Tips for Beginners – DIY OR DIE VAPING
Could read the stickies in this forum:
DIY E-Liquid

 

[JCinFLA]

So far my favorites are Prime 15 and Tribecca from halo.
After I find the base I like the first flavor I'll try to make is one of the above,which ever is simplier.

Just a heads up and a few words of caution, if you don't mind. Trying to clone a favorite ready-made eliquid isn't easy, and many spend months or even years trying to duplicate a "favorite" illusive mixture. Many never succeed, but...find that some of their trial batches result in perfectly good eliquids that they enjoy.

You might want to try searching eliquid recipe websites for clones of your favorite ones from Halo. Someone may have come pretty close, or even in their opinion...discovered a nearly "spot on" recipe, for the real ones. Just don't let possible frustration trying to make them, ruin your enjoyment and enthusiasm for DIY. You may just discover MANY other mixtures that you enjoy equally as well in the process!

 

[IDJoel]

Hi Robert,
About 70% of what I vape is an unflavored 40Pg/60VG 6mg/mL nic mix that I make myself. It is fast, about as simple as DIY can get, and requires no steeping or other "special" handling. It is "mix it, shake the stuffings out of it, and vape away."

If you are have unwanted flavors, or reactions; I agree that it would be smart to work on one component at a time. Of course your nicotine concentrate is the exception; do not vape until properly diluted. I would start with a clean wick and coil and vape the VG all by itself to understand its taste/flavor profile and check for your "side effects" (which are what by the way?). Repeat the process for your PG by itself. Once you have established you have an acceptable VG and PG you are ready to mix your your first unflavored nic recipe.

• Start Small - you can always mix larger batches later. It is much harder to "tweak" an unacceptable mix into something vapable... and especially to do it with repeatable results.
• Use A Calculator - There are lots of free options out there, and for most platforms, so find one that works best for you. Calculators help us from making mathematical errors but we still need to input the information correctly. Remember 1% DOES NOT equal 1mg/mL.
• Do your homework - There is a ton of information available to you but you have to go seek it out. Almost every error I have made (and I've made plenty), I could have avoided, if I had spent a bit more time reading and asking questions from all the helpful people that make up this great community.

Let us know how your journey progresses.

 

[DaveP]

Robbert, there are web sources that talk about allergies to various ingredients in ejuice. You might want to check out these and Google up "allergy test for pg vg nicotine" and see what's returned. Here's a few.

PG Sensitivity

Allergy Test on E-Liquids - how?

E-Liquid and PG (Propylene Glycol) Allergies – What to Know - Everything You Need To Know About E-Cigarettes

I've been to an allergy doctor a couple of times to check out what might be causing seasonal allergies. The first thing they do is bring in a tray of little cups with liquid containing common allergens with plastic stick pins and a scratch test matrix sheet that shows what is in each cup. All they do is create a matrix of black dots on your arm with a marker and use the little plastic pin from each cup to place a drop of liquid and then lightly scratch the surface of the skin in the corresponding spot. After 15 minutes they come back in and look for redness or a whelp, and compare them to the sheet to see which reacted. I'm not suggesting you try to play doctor, but it makes sense that this could be done at home with PG, VG, flavors, and Nic. That test is about $700 before insurance kicks in.

Here's a link to a Mayo Clinic video that shows how its done.
Video: Allergy tests - Mayo Clinic

 

[Bonskibon]

Don't think you mentioned what type of side effects you are having. Knowing this may help us help you.

 

[dannyv45]

Wizards lab.
I'm going to make a 3mg strength of plain nicotine with different ratios of pg:vg until I can eliminate what's causing side effects.I may reduce it down to 1.5mg.
I've read nicotine dissolves in pg best so I'll get nicotine in pg and then both pure vg and pg to build on.
So far my favorites are Prime 15 and Tribecca from halo.
After I find the base I like the first flavor I'll try to make is one of the above,which ever is simplier.

If you go into a little more detail about what side effects your experiencing maybe I can help with that. I have many suggestions on harsh, strong or undesirable taste from Nicotine base and how to handle those issues in my blog.
If your having some type of physical reaction to NIC then it's important to get that out in the open so you can get better, more informed opinions.
dannyv45's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

If it's a prime clone you are after here's a nice recipe I started my halo DIY with many years ago.

Get your base tasting good to you then use

5 - 7% Hangsen No.5
No.5-HS

1% Inawera chocolate
Chocolate-INW

.5 - 1% AP (Supplements nuttyness)
Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG-TFA

Let it steep 2 or more weeks.

Then to add a nice tribeca twist to it add 1 - 2% of your favorite caramel. This may not be a 1 to 1 exact clone but this will get you started with a couple of vapes that are right in your wheel house.

Always remember it does not have to be an exact clone it just has to taste better then the original

 

[Robbert]

Dizziness and ringing in the ears.Also,weakness, energy loss and runny nose.Sometimes after I vape some flavors I feel weak and tired.

I reduced nicotine to 1.5mg and 0mg same effects but ringing in ears might be less.
I tried 6mg and sweats,nausea and @ 1.5-3.0mg those went away.So nicotine might not be the culprit.
Halo is tolerable but this last batch I got is so sweet I'm suspecting there was a reason it was over 50% off.

 

[Robbert]

Thanks for the recipe.
I'll give that a try once I get a base made.
I just figured out a flavor that's may be causing issues and it smells like black liquerish.I hope it's not a common flavor and I detect it in a raspberry flavor,which I wasn't suspecting.

Are fruit flavors just one basic or a mixture of different flavors?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Thanks for the recipe.
I'll give that a try once I get a base made.
I just figured out a flavor that's may be causing issues and it smells like black liquerish.I hope it's not a common flavor and I detect it in a raspberry flavor,which I wasn't suspecting.

Are fruit flavors just one basic or a mixture of different flavors?

Fruit flavors usually can be vaped as stand alone flavors. However, I find a better option is to combine 2 or more of the same flavor from different manufacturers. To me you get a fuller tasting type of product. A flavor is a flavor you might say....well, yes and no. Different companies use different methods in achieving their goals and taste is so subjective. But in just starting out yes, you can just mix 1 flavor with nic/pg/vg and go from there. Nothing wrong with that. Some turn out really good.

Is trying 1 flavor where you are up to now. How did just the nic pg/vg testing go?

 

[Robbert]

I'm putting an order together for the vg pg nicotine base and then enough flavoring for the TriBeCa DIY and a simple fruit flavor maybe with and without menthol.
Ill probably get an order out either tonight or in the AM.

 

[Robbert]

If you go into a little more detail about what side effects your experiencing maybe I can help with that. I have many suggestions on harsh, strong or undesirable taste from Nicotine base and how to handle those issues in my blog.
If your having some type of physical reaction to NIC then it's important to get that out in the open so you can get better, more informed opinions.
dannyv45's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

If it's a prime clone you are after here's a nice recipe I started my halo DIY with many years ago.

Get your base tasting good to you then use

5 - 7% Hangsen No.5
No.5-HS

1% Inawera chocolate
Chocolate-INW

.5 - 1% AP (Supplements nuttyness)
Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG-TFA

Let it steep 2 or more weeks.

Then to add a nice tribeca twist to it add 1 - 2% of your favorite caramel. This may not be a 1 to 1 exact clone but this will get you started with a couple of vapes that are right in your wheel house.

Always remember it does not have to be an exact clone it just has to taste better then the original

I was going to make the above.
Are those the % of each needed to make it?
So if I'm making 10ml total,
I'd mix 0.7ml of No.5,0.1ml of chocolate-INW and 0.05-0.1ml of AP?

Would a hot bath and mixing flask help mix or is shaking sufficient?
I have jewelry scales that measure 1/100 of a unit.

 

[IDJoel]

I was going to make the above.
Are those the % of each needed to make it?
So if I'm making 10ml total,
I'd mix 0.7ml of No.5,0.1ml of chocolate-INW and 0.05-0.1ml of AP?

That's the basic idea. What will vary is the residual PG, VG, and nic; based on what you want the final outcome. This is where a DIY calculator really helps. The following screen shots show what I am talking about:

This first example shows Danny's recipe with a 50PG/50VG 3mg/mL target using 100mg/ml nic base in 100% PG

In this second example note that my target remains the same: 50PG/50VG 3mg/mL and the only thing I change was the nic base. It is still 100mg/mL but now it is 100% VG based. Notice how the amounts of PG and VG to add change? These will change further if you change your target ratios and/or nic strength.
My recommendation: find a calculator you like and use it.

Would a hot bath and mixing flask help mix or is shaking sufficient?

I'll leave this for @dannyv45 to answer since I have not personally mixed this recipe.

I have jewelry scales that measure 1/100 of a unit.

What capacities? Total capacity will dictate maximum size of recipe (all liquids + container must be equal to/or less than total capacity).
I started mixing by weight using a reloading (powder) scale that could measure to 0.001gm but it had a max capacity of 50gm. This was fine for 30mL and smaller batches (mixed in plastic containers), but when I wanted to mix larger batches (esp. in glass), I had to get a different scale. A common recommendation for a scale is 500gm. capacity at 0.01gm resolution.