Steeping: Research and Study

[JusticeKnuckles]

Of course we all know that steeping is the process of letting an eliquid sit for an extended period of time so we can enjoy a richer/more flavorful vaping experience.

I've heard a lot about steeping methods from many users over different topics and posts... Shake once a day... Let sit still... leave the top off so the water can evaporate... Don't uncap as it may lose flavor... wait 5 days... Wait 5 weeks.. Sit in a warm bath... Etc etc

What I would like to do is find a scientific way actually measure the effectiveness of the methods of steeping and how it truly affects our juice.

Is steeping really more about letting a flavor bind to a base? If so, how long does it actually take? Does flavoring bind to pg easier to vg? Does the amount of juice (volume) make a difference in the time it takes to do so?

Or...

Is steeping actually about letting the flavoring develop? How long does it take for a flavor to peak? Do different bases change the rate of this? How does temperature affect this development? Do extracts, artificial and organic flavorings have different times it takes them to develop?

I would love to run many tests on steeping and truly understand what makes it affective and what doesn't really matter. Would I have the support of the forum and some members to help me carry out some tests on steeping? Nerds unite! Thanks you in advance for your responses

 

[darkhood]

It's both...scientific studies would contradict the true nature of steeping...it's a magical process thats intricacies eludes all of us mere mortals....

 

[Jerms]

I would love to run many tests on steeping and truly understand what makes it affective and what doesn't really matter. Would I have the support of the forum and some members to help me carry out some tests on steeping? Nerds unite! Thanks you in advance for your responses

You sure have my support. A big mystery to me is how much steeping effects juice compared to how much we think it does. Sometimes it's obvious, for example Smooth Criminal from Ahlusion, which started out as a very sweet tobacco, became more tobacco heavy and less sweet after weeks of aging. Another Ahlusion example is Caramel Pear Black tea, which was predominately caramel at the beginning and many weeks later the pear and tea are much more in the front while the caramel is barely noticable. Like many other I have multiple experiences with a big change. More often, it seems like the flavor rounds out or becomes settled as it ages. For those, though they seem to start tasting different, if I tried them side-by-side blindly could I tell the difference? Is becoming acquanted with the flavor the reason it starts tasting different to me? And for the drastic changes, what's causing that and what can I do quicken, lessen, or somehow alter that change.

The latest explanation that makes a lot of sense to me is oxidation. That process happens when we first expose the juice to air and continues, and it can be quickened by exposing the juice to air daily and shaking it to allow air bubbles to travel through the juice. One vendor suggest opening for 5 minutes a day and shaking to advance the steeping process rather than the older practice of leaving cap off for 48 hours, citing that doing the latter will cause too much oxidation. Oxidation can be visibly seen by the darkening of juice, and is said to also be the cause of the flavors blending or changing. But is it the only cause, the main cause, or just a minor cause?

I use the term aging a lot as a substute for steeping. As a juice ages, most seem to morph like many other things like wine, liquor, cheese, etc., and the result is usually for the better. Not always though, I've had tobaccos that lose certain notes after several weeks making it a lesser juice. Those are definately the exception instead of the rule though.

Steeping seems to happen quicker in plastic rather than glass; and the stiff, clear plastic also seems to keep juices from steeping compared to the more common squishy, slightly opaque plastic. This is further proof for me that oxidation is the key in this as those common, easy-to-squeeze ones allow gas to permeate it's surface, evident in that the juice can be smelled by smelling the bottle, while the clear plastic bottles and glass bottles hold the scent in.

As someone who ownes many juices at a time and each bottle tends to last a while, I tend to let time do most of the work now. Often I will open bottles for about 5 minutes and shake well daily for a little bit while storing for steeping purposes, but as a dripper who often opens and closes my bottles it will happen anyways.

Like most others, I have my prefered methods, theories, and anecdotal evidence in relation to this phenomenon of juice aging we have dubbed steeping, but little scientific proof and no unbiased testing results. Double-blind studies would be so awesome for this, but no one has stepped up to the plate for such a big undertaking. My own anecdotal evidence has proven to me that as juices age they change, but like you I would love to see more solid information on this.

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[Aurora-Oblivion]

I agree Jerms, it would be great if someone would do some double-blind studies on this!

Vendors could easily do this, and they'd be the best group to do it too, because they'd have a chance to do it with every flavor they have. They could make it a company wide doble blind test once a month or something! Wonder why no company hasn't ventured into this area yet?

 

[EddardinWinter]

Trying to quantify steeping reminds me of that stupid midichlorians thing Lucas did to the Star Wars movies.

Here is a short video, notice the new way, and the old way of describing the Force. Which one is better?



Aside from the fact that this kid's acting is so bad he makes you want to take a flame thrower to the screen, this attempt by that dreadful windbag Lucas to scientifically explain the mystical thing that is The Force is nauseating. Why????

Steeping is the magical process in all living juices. It binds the flavors and joins the vapor in harmony with your PV. A Vapor Knight feels the Steep flowing through him.

 

[boomerdude]

Oxidation is not good for e-juice. I agree, some research is needed. Steeping is a process that lets different flavor molecules adhere to each other in lattice formations, like crystals. You can only accomplish this over time. Heat below 150*F will help at the initial phase of mixing. Occasional shaking is also good.

Oxidation is for evaporating alcohol. Additives with alcohol like TA can use sitting in an open bottle after shaking for about 15 minutes. That's it. Close it up and let it steep for however long your experience dictates.

 

[Rin13]

This interests me as well. I have no research/etc to prove it... but my guess is that steeping allows the PG/VG/flavors to blend. And since VG is much thicker than PG, my guess is that it would take longer to blend. I soak my liquids in a hot bath, which definitely helps everything blend. However, I do not use nicotine. I think I read somewhere that doing that w/ nicotine can weaken it. I have no clue

 

[rotku]

I would be interested in the information. Some things, though, we just take for granted, improve with age. Wine, cheeses, scotch, whisky, peeps easter candy. Some things just don't improve with age, Chicago Cubs, ice cream, college girlfriends. So far, with e-liquids it seems hit and miss on the benefits of steeping.

 

[Jerms]

I would be interested in the information. Some things, though, we just take for granted, improve with age. Wine, cheeses, scotch, whisky, peeps easter candy. Some things just don't improve with age, Chicago Cubs, ice cream, college girlfriends. So far, with e-liquids it seems hit and miss on the benefits of steeping.

That's why I'd like to see more scientific explainations and testing. If all juices hit their prime after 2 weeks and stayed good it would be easy, but that's not the case. Some stay the same as they age, many improve, and a few actually get worse. The ones that improve take anywhere from a couple days to several months to hit their peak.

Like many here, I have learned the ins and outs of steeping and don't consider finding a juices sweet spot a hassle, but I only learned that with time and out of neccessity. I could buy Chinese juices which are already well steeped and not have to worry about it, but if I want to enjoy the small vendor blends that are made to order, I needed to figure out this steeping thing. I've accepted it and incorporated it into my hobby, but can admit it's far from an ideal situation, especially for people new to vaping.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ruppy]

You sure have my support. A big mystery to me is how much steeping effects juice compared to how much we think it does. Sometimes it's obvious, for example Smooth Criminal from Ahlusion, which started out as a very sweet tobacco, became more tobacco heavy and less sweet after weeks of aging. Another Ahlusion example is Caramel Pear Black tea, which was predominately caramel at the beginning and many weeks later the pear and tea are much more in the front while the caramel is barely noticable. Like many other I have multiple experiences with a big change. More often, it seems like the flavor rounds out or becomes settled as it ages. For those, though they seem to start tasting different, if I tried them side-by-side blindly could I tell the difference? Is becoming acquanted with the flavor the reason it starts tasting different to me? And for the drastic changes, what's causing that and what can I do quicken, lessen, or somehow alter that change.

The latest explanation that makes a lot of sense to me is oxidation. That process happens when we first expose the juice to air and continues, and it can be quickened by exposing the juice to air daily and shaking it to allow air bubbles to travel through the juice. One vendor suggest opening for 5 minutes a day and shaking to advance the steeping process rather than the older practice of leaving cap off for 48 hours, citing that doing the latter will cause too much oxidation. Oxidation can be visibly seen by the darkening of juice, and is said to also be the cause of the flavors blending or changing. But is it the only cause, the main cause, or just a minor cause?

I use the term aging a lot as a substute for steeping. As a juice ages, most seem to morph like many other things like wine, liquor, cheese, etc., and the result is usually for the better. Not always though, I've had tobaccos that lose certain notes after several weeks making it a lesser juice. Those are definately the exception instead of the rule though.

Steeping seems to happen quicker in plastic rather than glass; and the stiff, clear plastic also seems to keep juices from steeping compared to the more common squishy, slightly opaque plastic. This is further proof for me that oxidation is the key in this as those common, easy-to-squeeze ones allow gas to permeate it's surface, evident in that the juice can be smelled by smelling the bottle, while the clear plastic bottles and glass bottles hold the scent in.

As someone who ownes many juices at a time and each bottle tends to last a while, I tend to let time do most of the work now. Often I will open bottles for about 5 minutes and shake well daily for a little bit while storing for steeping purposes, but as a dripper who often opens and closes my bottles it will happen anyways.

Like most others, I have my prefered methods, theories, and anecdotal evidence in relation to this phenomenon of juice aging we have dubbed steeping, but little scientific proof and no unbiased testing results. Double-blind studies would be so awesome for this, but no one has stepped up to the plate for such a big undertaking. My own anecdotal evidence has proven to me that as juices age they change, but like you I would love to see more solid information on this.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Overall a pretty good outline of reasonable causes.

Good or bad oxidation is definitely a portion of it. The minute air goes into the bottle the nic is oxidizing. This will change flavor over time. Not always to the good.

IMO the rest is at least partialy based on how far a vendor mixes their juice. Putting everything in a bottle and stirring it, or even shaking it, really is not going to blend a PG or VG base with the flavors fully. That takes time or a more severe form of agitation. Some vendors use a more thorough mixing process. I know AVE does. However, most dont.

The biggest reason no one has gone to the trouble of monitoring steeping is its so subjective. You might like juice X steeped a week. I might think its perfect at a month. Most of the time 10 people will have 8 opinions on what steeped juice tastes like.

 

[Grimwald]

Wait...some of you bath with your e-liquids???

 

[Jerms]

The biggest reason no one has gone to the trouble of monitoring steeping is its so subjective. You might like juice X steeped a week. I might think its perfect at a month. Most of the time 10 people will have 8 opinions on what steeped juice tastes like.

That's a great point. There are quite a few juices in the Natural Tobacco thread I prefer fresh or a couple weeks old, while others wait months before enjoying the same juice, and vice versa. That's why one rule of thumb has always worked for me, if I think it tastes good it's ready. If it doesn't taste great it will age anyways since I won't want to vape it as much. One piece of info that's great to know and would be nice for vendors to comment on per juice is; will this particular juice change much as it ages or will it mostly stay the same.

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[Talyon]

A little behind each ear does wonders. J/k

Very interesting this steep thing is, I've found that depending on where I got my liquid from they did require a week or so to develope but that's just me. Others were and still are great right off the bat.

 

[Ruppy]

That's a great point. There are quite a few juices in the Natural Tobacco thread I prefer fresh or a couple weeks old, while others wait months before enjoying the same juice, and vice versa. That's why one rule of thumb has always worked for me, if I think it tastes good it's ready. If it doesn't taste great it will age anyways since I won't want to vape it as much. One piece of info that's great to know and would be nice for vendors to comment on per juice is; will this particular juice change much as it ages or will it mostly stay the same.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

What BWB did on ther site is about the closest ive seen to suggested steeping.

 

[Koman]

Wait...some of you bath with your e-liquids???

LOL yeah, taking it to next level.

 

[RottenJeeves]

Is there not so much variation in different e-juice that it would be impossible to find a method that works best for all?

 

[UncHellMatt]

I've been thinking about this, and as it happens I have an order coming in from Mt Baker Vapor this afternoon. Part of my order is going to be empty bottles. Here's what I'm a'gunna' do:

- Take one bottle, and transfer to 4 empty (well rinsed and sanitized) bottles, keeping some in the original bottle, and label each
- Photo each bottle in turn to document any color changes
- I'll use what remains in the original bottle with a fresh carto and make notes on its flavor, etc.
- The other 4 bottles, I'll set aside on a dark shelf in my back hall where I brew my beer, since it's a pretty consistent 70°
- Of those 4 bottles, two will have the caps on, two will have the caps off
- After, what, I suppose 7 days? I'll vape, using fresh cartos, one of the cap on and one of the cap off, and note any changes
- After perhaps (suggestions welcome!) a month, do the same with the remaining two.

To try and avoid contamination, does anyone think cheese cloth would be OK over the tops of the two "cap off"? Wouldn't want any dust particles with potential air borne critters getting in. Or am I being too cautious?

Another thing comes to mind... Which to age? I have some Black Tea, Mango and Green Apple. Suggestions on which to age? I'd heard that Green Apple was great right out of the bottle.

Of course, this "test" will be entirely subjective to my sense of taste, so it may be that to me, the aging is detrimental. But I can at least well document what I can, if the color changes, flavor changes, etc.

 

[boomerdude]

That's an excellent test. I don't think cheesecloth will hurt anything. I do however think you picked the wrong juices to test. My thinking is that those two juices will not taste any different from the one week point on. I think your test method would work great with more complex juices. Especially tobacco juices.

 

[UncHellMatt]

Any suggestions? I have an order out with Alice in Vapeland. A sampler and ... errr... Let me see... ZA, Twas Brillig and Cherry Blossom Tea (I like teas). If there's others to try, specifics, I'm game This is right up my alley.

That's an excellent test. I don't think cheesecloth will hurt anything. I do however think you picked the wrong juices to test. My thinking is that those two juices will not taste any different from the one week point on. I think your test method would work great with more complex juices. Especially tobacco juices.

 

[boomerdude]

Hmmm..... I'm not familiar with AV's juices. I do DIY for the most part. Although, because an ECF member here said if you don't try W2V and HHV your missing out, I ordered a sampler from each. All tobacco. Maybe someone else familiar with AV will chime in with a suggestion.

As I said my steeping method is similar to yours but I make 95% of my juices tobacco. Some fruit and drink juices I mix need hardly any steeping and the flavor stays the same for the life of the juice. One in particular I mix 30ml bottles and they can last a month.

I was lucky when I started because I started reading threads about steeping here on ECF. I was astounded tasting the difference in RY4 from one week to a month. What a difference three weeks make. That's pretty much what I've run into in most of the tobacco flavors I've tried.

So when my Legend, Blondie, Huntsman, etc. arrives, it's going to be frustrating waiting on them to steep.