Stop modding the electronics and work on this

[the_vape_nerd]

Umm...ok I got this idea from another thread.

We have some brilliant people here. Gadget freaks, modders, people doing their own welding. Coil making has taken on a life of its own and we've got some of you here on ecf arguing which matters most wattage or wire temperature and quite frankly some of these debates you have make no sense whatever to me. But I appreciate you doing it for the more dumb members like me.

Anyway, I want all you smart people to quit fooling with the electronics until such time as you can come up with an EASY method of nic extraction that I can do in my kitchen from tobacco leaves.

If you can build a .27 coil and wick it with stuff from CVS, you can do this. Besides, how much more vape can you get from a coil? Some of you people's youtube videos remind me of an Ozzy concert I attended circa 1987. Put down the electronics for a minute and work on this.

The nic is the choke point and the big bad FDA is coming, so let's focus all this attention where it belongs. Who wants to be the new nic extraction guru?

It's time for a new vape celebrity. Maybe you could even get A&E to feature you on a reality show. They already have one for moonshine which I really don't get because I thought it was illegal. Yet here's A&E with video evidence of illegal activity and no one goes to jail???

Anyway, come on you nerds, stop the electronics and put the chemistry hats on!

 

[supermarket]

Doesn't nicotine has other purposes besides use in e-cigs?

I thought I read somewhere that nicotine is bought and sold for other purposes, although I don't remember what. If that if the case, I don't think nicotine would be regulated.

 

[cableparrot]

I've actually done this before to be able to quadruple the strength of the dip I was chewing. For me it was fairly simple, get some vegetable glycerine from pretty much anywhere, (I got kosher food grade from Vitamin Shoppe) and then put it in a double boiler. I'd then take some tobaqqy and chop and shred it so it was as small as possible. Once the glycerin became extremely thin in the double boiler (boiling temp is just above 550 Fahrenheit), I would throw in the tiny pieces of tobacco and leave it to break down in the glycerin for about an hour, stirring occasionally. After that, strain it and I would now have nicotine soaked glycerine, to take it to the maximum concentration possible, I would try to cram as much tobacco as possible in the glycerin and then put one or two drops in each can of dip. This is a very rough extraction measure, because the amount of nicotine in the glycerin post extraction is unknown.
This is what I did, hope it gives you a place to go from.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Doesn't nicotine has other purposes besides use in e-cigs?

I thought I read somewhere that nicotine is bought and sold for other purposes, although I don't remember what. If that if the case, I don't think nicotine would be regulated.

It has some industrial and farming uses but I think licenses or maybe permits are required for those uses.

I'm afraid what is going to happen is the fda will set a concentration for it and then say "in order to buy it above this concentration you must have a license". The biggest fear is that they will only allow tamper proof pre-filled cartomizers.

 

[SpiritBear]

Ideally, one would do it from clean, organically grown tobacco leaves. It can be done from shredded cigarette or cigar tobacco, but if cigs/cigars are used, then you have the additives to that tobacco involved .... which of course we all want to avoid.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I've actually done this before to be able to quadruple the strength of the dip I was chewing. For me it was fairly simple, get some vegetable glycerine from pretty much anywhere, (I got kosher food grade from Vitamin Shoppe) and then put it in a double boiler. I'd then take some tobaqqy and chop and shred it so it was as small as possible. Once the glycerin became extremely thin in the double boiler (boiling temp is just above 550 Fahrenheit), I would throw in the tiny pieces of tobacco and leave it to break down in the glycerin for about an hour, stirring occasionally. After that, strain it and I would now have nicotine soaked glycerine, to take it to the maximum concentration possible, I would try to cram as much tobacco as possible in the glycerin and then put one or two drops in each can of dip. This is a very rough extraction measure, because the amount of nicotine in the glycerin post extraction is unknown.
This is what I did, hope it gives you a place to go from.

What you did is called Naturally Extracted Tobacco, or NET. As I recall from the DIY forum, actual nicotine level tests of liquids produced in this manner showed very, very little actual nicotine was extracted.

Nicotine is an alkaloid. If you're going to extract it from the plant matter containing it, you have to use some pretty dangerous acids in order to ionize the nicotine and get it into a soluble form.

There is a small number of people who are doing what's called Whole Tobacco Alkaloid extraction, and they are undoubtedly using the ionization process. However, unlike the companies extracting nicotine commercially, the WTA people are not further refining their product to remove the 5% or so of other, non-nicotine alkaloids present in tobacco.

The WTA liquids have a grassy, mellow flavor that's a lot like chewing on a fresh, green tobacco leaf. They are pricey beyond pricey.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

I've actually done this before to be able to quadruple the strength of the dip I was chewing. For me it was fairly simple, get some vegetable glycerine from pretty much anywhere, (I got kosher food grade from Vitamin Shoppe) and then put it in a double boiler. I'd then take some tobaqqy and chop and shred it so it was as small as possible. Once the glycerin became extremely thin in the double boiler (boiling temp is just above 550 Fahrenheit), I would throw in the tiny pieces of tobacco and leave it to break down in the glycerin for about an hour, stirring occasionally. After that, strain it and I would now have nicotine soaked glycerine, to take it to the maximum concentration possible, I would try to cram as much tobacco as possible in the glycerin and then put one or two drops in each can of dip. This is a very rough extraction measure, because the amount of nicotine in the glycerin post extraction is unknown.
This is what I did, hope it gives you a place to go from.

I can't really argue with you since I lack the knowledge here, but there is a long running thread (probably a sticky) wherein they discuss how this won't work. It's possible that you simply upped the flavor without upping the nic?

From what I gather from my very limited reading, its not as easy as just steeping a tobacco leaf into either pg or vg. I mean you can get the flavor of the tobacco that way but you can't get the nicotine into the pg or vg that way.

The thread goes into a rather long process of how one would extract it. It seems to require some base level knowledge of chemistry and the purchasing or building maybe of distilling equipment.

 

[bikerbeagle]

In most states, making moonshine for your own consumption is legal - it's the selling of it that is illegal ...as a tax code violation.

The federal laws prohibiting distillation are based on tax fraud, so it is technically not illegal to distill moonshine so long as you have filed for the proper permits and paid your taxes. The federal government generally charges liquor producers $2.14 per 750 mL bottle of 80-proof liquor. Per gallon of 50% alcohol content liquor, the tax rounds out to about $13.50. This doesn't include the state excise tax you would owe, which can be as high as Alaska's $12.80 per gallon.

By making and selling your own moonshine, you may be stealing up to $25 per gallon from taxpayers the government.

On the topic at hand, the technology of electronics is a far cry distant from the technology of chemistry.

 

[the_vape_nerd]

Yes well on the A&E show they are selling it so it still seems like they are criminals getting away with it.

 

[fourtytwo]

Interesting problem. Once this is solved, won't they just restrict access to raw tobacco?

 

[cableparrot]

What you did is called Naturally Extracted Tobacco, or NET. As I recall from the DIY forum, actual nicotine level tests of liquids produced in this manner showed very, very little actual nicotine was extracted.

Nicotine is an alkaloid. If you're going to extract it from the plant matter containing it, you have to use some pretty dangerous acids in order to ionize the nicotine and get it into a soluble form.

There is a small number of people who are doing what's called Whole Tobacco Alkaloid extraction, and they are undoubtedly using the ionization process. However, unlike the companies extracting nicotine commercially, the WTA people are not further refining their product to remove the 5% or so of other, non-nicotine alkaloids present in tobacco.

The WTA liquids have a grassy, mellow flavor that's a lot like chewing on a fresh, green tobacco leaf. They are pricey beyond pricey.

Could you link me please? It'd be nice to know how to make my own, just for kicks if I don't do it all the time. Tis nice to know why it didn't work too well, thanks man!

 

[bluecat]

When I first decided to try vaping to stop smoking, I read a lot of info on it. Just how I am. There was a site I found on how to extract nicotine in your kitchen. Too many toxic chemicals for me. Besides pure nicotine will kill you. I still have it bookmarked and read it time to time. Basically a chemistry student asked if he could post and the mod said sure just make sure you put death warnings on it.

Basically need are hydrochloric acid, liquid ammonia and benzene or toluene... oh and tobacco leaves.

It is out there on the internet.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Could you link me please? It'd be nice to know how to make my own, just for kicks if I don't do it all the time. Tis nice to know why it didn't work too well, thanks man!

http://www.wholecig.com

He doesn't go into any detail on how he does what he does, but whatever he's doing tastes different from any other tobacco liquid I've ever tried.

I am searching furiously for the thread where the ionization process was described, but coming up snake eyes.

 

[retired1]

The chemicals need to extract nicotine are much more dangerous than the nicotine itself. HCL, not so much, but ammonia, benzene and toluene aren't things to mess with outside of a lab that has taken all the necessary precautions. Benzene is also considered carcinogenic. Both Benzene and Toluene are extremely flammable.

This isn't something ECF is going to recommend as a DIY project.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

The chemicals need to extract nicotine are much more dangerous than the nicotine itself. HCL, not so much, but ammonia, benzene and toluene aren't things to mess with outside of a lab that has taken all the necessary precautions. Benzene is also considered carcinogenic. Both Benzene and Toluene are extremely flammable.

This isn't something ECF is going to recommend as a DIY project.

Not only that, but ammonia is also used in certain other processes, and buying it in any significant quantity will absolutely arouse suspicion. We aren't talking about household cleaning supplies, here.

I've done some NET with limited success. The first time I tried it (using store-bought VG, a mini coffee pot and some shredded cigar, pipe and RYO tobacco), the result tasted like a composted pile of grass clippings. The second and third times got better, but I was going through VG like a dog goes through water on a hot summer day and it pretty much wrecked the coffee pot for any other use.

 

[fourtytwo]

The chemicals need to extract nicotine are much more dangerous than the nicotine itself. HCL, not so much, but ammonia, benzene and toluene aren't things to mess with outside of a lab that has taken all the necessary precautions. Benzene is also considered carcinogenic. Both Benzene and Toluene are extremely flammable.

This isn't something ECF is going to recommend as a DIY project.

Well, that is just what the vaping world needs. A news story of police raiding an illegal e-cig lab in a residential neighbourhood.

 

[Lombaowski]

Doesn't nicotine has other purposes besides use in e-cigs?

Pretty sure it's the main ingredient in Astroglyde.

 

[retired1]

Not sure it would be illegal, but it sure wouldn't take much to touch off the benzene or toluene fumes and leave a smoking crater where your house was.

 

[Robino1]

I'm pretty sure that if there was a way to do this, somebody would be already doing it. There are boatloads of VERY intelligent people on ECF. I do believe, in my wanderings through some very old threads, this has been discussed. Numerous times.

Consensus normally being too dangerous and too expensive.

 

[fourtytwo]

Not sure it would be illegal, but it sure wouldn't take much to touch off the benzene or toluene fumes and leave a smoking crater where your house was.

I don't think the fire hazard from the benzene or toluene would be as great as that from the highly explosive eGo batteries that are likely to be present.