Storms and Saftey

[mudhill]

people say they want government out of their lives,,,,but let some thing happen,they yell,wheres the government!!!!

HELP,,,HELP,,,,,,where is the government,,,,,help,,,help!!!!

 

[dwsizme]

We need the gov't for some things.....to protect us....to rescue in times of tragedy.....just not to tell us what to do whether we smoke or vape or eat Big macs. I don't think because I expect them to step into some things that they have the right then to tell me what I can and cannot do in my own private spaces. And the Army, Nat'l Guard, Air Force...etc...are ours. We help every other country when they are in trouble. Our tax dollars do alot around the world. We need to get quicker about it when its in our own backyard.
We need gov't for some things.....and other things they need to let us be. Yeah....I believe in "we the people". Lets make it about that. And our people are in trouble.

 

[Renolizzie]

Hi guys still in the dark gas has run out around here too hoping for things to get better soon... Thank you all for watching over the forum in my absesece.

I'm sorry Imagine. I certainly hope things will get better soon. You poor little thing. We had a flood in our old town after we moved. It was a terrible mess. I'm thinking of you and sending you best wishes.

 

[mudhill]

We need the gov't for some things.....to protect us....to rescue in times of tragedy.....just not to tell us what to do whether we smoke or vape or eat Big macs. I don't think because I expect them to step into some things that they have the right then to tell me what I can and cannot do in my own private spaces. And the Army, Nat'l Guard, Air Force...etc...are ours. We help every other country when they are in trouble. Our tax dollars do alot around the world. We need to get quicker about it when its in our own backyard.
We need gov't for some things.....and other things they need to let us be. Yeah....I believe in "we the people". Lets make it about that. And our people are in trouble.

but people want them here yesterday,,that east coast is a mess and there is only so much they can do in a couple of days.

if they are not getting help fast enough,,jump on their mayors and their governors first,,,then start blaming the federal government.

for cry'n out loud man,,the have utility workers from all over the USA pouring in their,,it takes time,,,it takes time.

i remember a few years ago,,we had a ice storm and i was out of electricity for 5.5 days,,,i didn't cry about it,,i was prepared for them sort of things.

i live in the sticks and we depend on our selves to a point,,we are prepared for most any thing that life throws at us.

we are not whiners ,,we are preparers .

 

[dwsizme]

but people want them here yesterday,,that east coast is a mess and there is only so much they can do in a couple of days.

if they are not getting help fast enough,,jump on their mayors and their governors first,,,then start blaming the federal government.

for cry'n out loud man,,the have utility workers from all over the USA pouring in their,,it takes time,,,it takes time.

i remember a few years ago,,we had a ice storm and i was out of electricity for 5.5 days,,,i didn't cry about it,,i was prepared for them sort of things.

i live in the sticks and we depend on our selves to a point,,we are prepared for most any thing that life throws at us.

we are not whiners ,,we are preparers .

Didn't necessarily say "federal". I was including all. And they manage quickly enough in other places. Call out the National Guard. The Mayors (unlike the Mayor in the Katrina episode) already agreed to any help....now!
That's great you're prepared. But alot of "city folk" aren't and wouldn't have a clue how to be. America is dependant on her conveniences......me, too.
And my brother is a utility worker. I know they are all trying. They need help. That's when federal gov't should step in to help when the local gov't can't handle it all.

 

[awsum140]

I hope things get better for you soon, Imagine. The North Jersey coast and New York City areas have been very badly damaged. I don't think most people understand how badly damaged they actually are.

The infrastructure, bridges and highways, have been heavily damaged and if they haven't been damaged they are blocked by debris which makes moving relief supplies around a very difficult task. The ports of NY and NJ can't operate, even though they are technically open, there is no electricity to run things. That means shipments of heating oil and gas are being delayed until power comes back on. The two major refineries, Bayway and Hess, are shut down due to flooding damage so fuel has to be shipped in to a port that can't operate. Even then, with the damaged bridges, getting out to where it's needed will be a big problem. Now there's a cold front moving through and a Nor'easter coming in the middle of the week which only adds to the problem.

The other thing is that resources, like the Red Cross and FEMA, are being overwhelmed. The scope of the disaster is that large, trust me on this, that even the Feds are having a problem getting enough people and supplies into the areas that need help so badly. With all the homes that have been rendered uninhabitable there are not enough shelters and hotel/motel rooms for the people that are displaced, let alone the emergency workers trying to help. It's a mess to say the least.

I am ashamed to say that some power workers drove up here to aid in restoring electricity. They are not union members and the union members here cursed them and chased them out, yelling at them "go the f--k back where they belong, you're stealing my work and income from my family". What the heck is wrong here?

We now have moved back to the Carter years here, gas is being rationed on the old odd and even basis of the 70's. Yes, it is that bad. There are easily ten thousand or more homes that have been completely destroyed or left uninhabitable. At least Mayor Bloomberg had the common sense to cancel the NYC Marathon. They were tieing up two 200kw generators for the media circus in Central Park for it not to mention the army of cops and EMTs that would have been pulled off hurricane problems to handle the race and the crowds.

 

[dwsizme]

I hope things get better for you soon, Imagine. The North Jersey coast and New York City areas have been very badly damaged. I don't think most people understand how badly damaged they actually are.

The infrastructure, bridges and highways, have been heavily damaged and if they haven't been damaged they are blocked by debris which makes moving relief supplies around a very difficult task. The ports of NY and NJ can't operate, even though they are technically open, there is no electricity to run things. That means shipments of heating oil and gas are being delayed until power comes back on. The two major refineries, Bayway and Hess, are shut down due to flooding damage so fuel has to be shipped in to a port that can't operate. Even then, with the damaged bridges, getting out to where it's needed will be a big problem. Now there's a cold front moving through and a Nor'easter coming in the middle of the week which only adds to the problem.

The other thing is that resources, like the Red Cross and FEMA, are being overwhelmed. The scope of the disaster is that large, trust me on this, that even the Feds are having a problem getting enough people and supplies into the areas that need help so badly. With all the homes that have been rendered uninhabitable there are not enough shelters and hotel/motel rooms for the people that are displaced, let alone the emergency workers trying to help. It's a mess to say the least.

I am ashamed to say that some power workers drove up here to aid in restoring electricity. They are not union members and the union members here cursed them and chased them out, yelling at them "go the f--k back where they belong, you're stealing my work and income from my family". What the heck is wrong here?

We now have moved back to the Carter years here, gas is being rationed on the old odd and even basis of the 70's. Yes, it is that bad. There are easily ten thousand or more homes that have been completely destroyed or left uninhabitable. At least Mayor Bloomberg had the common sense to cancel the NYC Marathon. They were tieing up two 200kw generators for the media circus in Central Park for it not to mention the army of cops and EMTs that would have been pulled off hurricane problems to handle the race and the crowds.

I say give the military their heads on this and let them handle it. They'd know what to do. Dispatch all the armed services. Politicians aren't as smart. If I was President.....that's what I'd do.

 

[Renolizzie]

I think what I am really worried about is the weather turning really cold. People in the city don't have wood stoves in apartment buildings. They don't have the ability to store 30 gallons of gasoline so they can run a generator for a few hours a day. You can't run a generator in the hallway of an apartment building. Water is always an issue. Cleanup takes time. They also don't have camping gear stored in the shed or the garage. Big cities run on electricity and without electricity, life is very difficult.

We have camping gear, canned and dried food stuffs, a generator, propane in large canisters, 30 gallons of gas, a wood stove but our ability to store water is a little limited. It's hard to have enough of everything you need and certainly if an emergency were to go on here for too long, we would run out of gasoline. Without gasoline, we couldn't pump water from the well.

 

[awsum140]

One thing to keep in mind, the damage extends from, basically Atlantic City, NJ, on out to almost the end of Long Island. The population in that strip, even though it's basically the immediate coastal area only, probably totals over two million people. I won't discuss the logic of living in an area known to be heavily damaged by hurricanes in the past, but the sheer number of people effected is what's making it such a problem.

Having say ten or twenty or even fifty gallons of gas for your generator is a good thing, but it can't last long enough in a case like this and now there's no gas stations open in the damaged areas, either no power to pump or out of gas with no supplies on the way. Beides that, having a generator in an apartment or condo is kind of hard to do.

Using Armed Forces is problematic, constitutionally. It would literally take an act of Congress or maybe even a Constitutional ammendment to be able to do that. The exception is the National Guard which is being used heavily, but many of the members live in the very areas that have been damaged. The Armed Forces can be utilized for transportation or construction/clean-up and that is also being done. I think what this whole thing demonstartes is that no matter how well prepared you may be, or think you are, it's never going to be prepared enough. Only Hollywood or a novel can anticipate and "handle" things of this scope flawlessly.

 

[mudhill]

i feel for them folks,,but there is only so much that is humanly possible that can be done in a short time,,,on that i will crawl back in my hole.

 

[dwsizme]

i feel for them folks,,but there is only so much that is humanly possible that can be done in a short time,,,on that i will crawl back in my hole.

Know how you feel......helpless and frustrated at it....and sad. I will crawl back in mine, too. (and keep praying for everyone )

 

[awsum140]

That's what I'm getting to, Larry. No matter how much help is being thrown at it, there is a limit to what can be done. The people in the most heavily damaged areas are really suffering, everything is gone, and getting aid to them is an almost impossible task until more cleanup gets done.

 

[mudhill]

That's what I'm getting to, Larry. No matter how much help is being thrown at it, there is a limit to what can be done. The people in the most heavily damaged areas are really suffering, everything is gone, and getting aid to them is an almost impossible task until more cleanup gets done.

i agree Roland,,,as long as the country understands that and does not throw blame at the folks that are doing there best,,i would imagine.

united we stand.....divided we fall..........have you ever heard that one before ?

 

[dwsizme]

i agree Roland,,,as long as the country understands that and does not throw blame at the folks that are doing there best,,i would imagine.

united we stand.....divided we fall..........have you ever heard that one before ?

I totally agree....this country is way too divided. We need to find more common ground and concentrate on that....all of us, conservative, liberal and independant.......or we're going to lose it fighting over it. We the people. Let's be "we the people" again.

 

[Renolizzie]

Yep, we better start figuring out that we are all in this together.

 

[JoAnnW]

i wish we got storms here

Be careful about what you wish for... I would not wish for ANYTHING like this.

 

[Uncle]

That's what I'm getting to, Larry. No matter how much help is being thrown at it, there is a limit to what can be done. The people in the most heavily damaged areas are really suffering, everything is gone, and getting aid to them is an almost impossible task until more cleanup gets done.

I refuse to get involved with the political discussion here . . . However, what I will say - IMO - That ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ is the most important thing you said, and why this was all so frustrating for me when I was up North . . . Worse yet, to "Me" is the fact that it seems very few people were prepared or even took the time to really get ready, especially even if they only saw one NEWS report of the recent similar events - they should know what happens - particularly given the reports of the aftermath of any Hurricane, including "Andrew/Katrina" . . . More importantly, I would even go so far to say, not to be prepared in this day and age, especially knowing what happened after "9-11" - NOT GOOD . . .

AND - That is why, even with being inundated with all the media hype - NO ONE should ever be complacent when a "storm" be it a Hurricane/Nor'easter (which IMO is just like a Hurricane, but so much colder) that is coming your way . . .

EVERYONE SHOULD BE PREPARED - As Best YOU CAN ! ! !

Now - I am not trying to be "holier-than-thou" - I have just gone through many "Storms" (both in the North and Florida) and it's not easy - especially when you live in an apartment in a city, but I also have done "My" Homework . . . So now - particularly living in Florida - I try to stay as prepared as I possibly can here . . .

SO - If You DO NOT Know What To Do - LEARN ! ! !

AND - IMO - What People always should have on hand (and although it took me time to afford most of this - I DO HAVE and one of the reasons why I said I would prefer to be in Florida then anywhere else when a storm/hurricane hits land . . .) . . . .

First and foremost, have all YOUR MEDICATIONS (for at least 2-3 weeks - if not GET THEM) . . Also a "First-aid" kit & Over the counter "Stuff" you use - and House-hold Bleach (can come in handy for many things) . . .

Next - WATER (lots & lots of WATER w/Flavored Powders too) - Bottled Ice Tea/Juice (which can also be put into the freezer and when frozen can be used to keep things cold) - Canned/Self-Safe Milk (especially if you have children) - Canned/Dry Food, including canned/smoked "Meats" ("Jerky", Pepperoni, Salami's, Sausages, etc.) - Hard Chesses too - Canned Soups/Vegetables/Fruits/etc. - "Pre-cooked" Foods (Canned Pasta "Stuff", Chili, etc.) - Cereals/Crackers/Granola Bars/Nuts & Dried Fruits/ Trail Mixes/Even "Junk" Food Chips & Pretzels . . . BTW: if You have a packed Freezer the food there will last longer (Don't quote me, but usually 48-72 Hours) . . . Oh did I mention - Drinking WATER ! ! !

As for "Necessary" Equipment . . . Think Camping . . . A Working MANUAL CAN OPENER ! ! ! (and a Sharp Knife/Razor/Sissors) . . . Sterno Cookers (Industrial Size Sternos are best & VERY HELPFUL, especially to heat anything & make coffee {You can even use your Coffee Machine to Drip Coffee}, more importantly these can be used in an Apartment) and even a small Propane Cooker and a "Screw" on "Burner" for the small tanks of propane (DON'T Forget MATCHES/Lighters) . . . Paper Plates/Cups/Eating utensils (if you really need them - Think Finger Food People) . . . Small "Pre-package" Condiments (like those from "fast-food" places) . . . Also a "Large" Cooler to keep those things that "need" refrigeration as cold as you can for as long as you can . . . Flash Lights/Candles/Lanterns, they even have a light you can wear on your "Fore-Head" (Home Depot/Lowe's have them) . . . Portable DVD player/HDTV/Radio (preferably one with a "hand-crank" as a source of power) . . .

AND - since I need electricity for so many things . . . Batteries (YES - BATTERIES of ALL SHAPES AND SIZES) for your electronics, chargers/car chargers, inverters, Oh Did I Mention - BATTERIES ! ! ! (AND - YES, I still need to get a "Solar" powered source for charging "stuff" too )

Oh BTW: I even have a 5 gallon Water "Bladder" for drinking water too, besides filling the Tub with water for those time when you need more water (Household Bleach can purify for drinking) or when you absolutely have to flush or get something clean . . .

And on that note and also just as important: Personal Hygiene things like "dry" shampoo, those "wipes" they use in hospitals for people who cannot get out of "bed", and 3% Hydrogen peroxide/Anti-bacterial liquids . . .

Last, but not least of all, if you have transportation Fill Your Tank before the storm and stay home unless you need to absolutely evacuate . . . AND Just Because You Have Cabin Fever - Driving Around Because You Do - NOT GOOD ! ! !

Oh and Clean Clothes too . . .

I know all this information is after the fact and what is still happening or has happened is done . . . However, I am hoping that it will come in handy for future reference to those who may or might find it at all useful . . . (Especially since I have spent the last 3 hours typing it up . . .)

 

[mudhill]

I refuse to get involved with the political discussion here . . . However, what I will say - IMO - That ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ is the most important thing you said, and why this was all so frustrating for me when I was up North . . . Worse yet, to "Me" is the fact that it seems very few people were prepared or even took the time to really get ready, especially even if they only saw one NEWS report of the recent similar events - they should know what happens - particularly given the reports of the aftermath of any Hurricane, including "Andrew/Katrina" . . . More importantly, I would even go so far to say, not to be prepared in this day and age, especially knowing what happened after "9-11" - NOT GOOD . . .

AND - That is why, even with being inundated with all the media hype - NO ONE should ever be complacent when a "storm" be it a Hurricane/Nor'easter (which IMO is just like a Hurricane, but so much colder) that is coming your way . . .

EVERYONE SHOULD BE PREPARED - As Best YOU CAN ! ! !

Now - I am not trying to be "holier-than-thou" - I have just gone through many "Storms" (both in the North and Florida) and it's not easy - especially when you live in an apartment in a city, but I also have done "My" Homework . . . So now - particularly living in Florida - I try to stay as prepared as I possibly can here . . .

SO - If You DO NOT Know What To Do - LEARN ! ! !

AND - IMO - What People always should have on hand (and although it took me time to afford most of this - I DO HAVE and one of the reasons why I said I would prefer to be in Florida then anywhere else when a storm/hurricane hits land . . .) . . . .

First and foremost, have all YOUR MEDICATIONS (for at least 2-3 weeks - if not GET THEM) . . Also a "First-aid" kit & Over the counter "Stuff" you use - and House-hold Bleach (can come in handy for many things) . . .

Next - WATER (lots & lots of WATER w/Flavored Powders too) - Bottled Ice Tea/Juice (which can also be put into the freezer and when frozen can be used to keep things cold) - Canned/Self-Safe Milk (especially if you have children) - Canned/Dry Food, including canned/smoked "Meats" ("Jerky", Pepperoni, Salami's, Sausages, etc.) - Hard Chesses too - Canned Soups/Vegetables/Fruits/etc. - "Pre-cooked" Foods (Canned Pasta "Stuff", Chili, etc.) - Cereals/Crackers/Granola Bars/Nuts & Dried Fruits/ Trail Mixes/Even "Junk" Food Chips & Pretzels . . . BTW: if You have a packed Freezer the food there will last longer (Don't quote me, but usually 48-72 Hours) . . . Oh did I mention - Drinking WATER ! ! !

As for "Necessary" Equipment . . . Think Camping . . . A Working MANUAL CAN OPENER ! ! ! (and a Sharp Knife/Razor/Sissors) . . . Sterno Cookers (Industrial Size Sternos are best & VERY HELPFUL, especially to heat anything & make coffee {You can even use your Coffee Machine to Drip Coffee}, more importantly these can be used in an Apartment) and even a small Propane Cooker and a "Screw" on "Burner" for the small tanks of propane (DON'T Forget MATCHES/Lighters) . . . Paper Plates/Cups/Eating utensils (if you really need them - Think Finger Food People) . . . Small "Pre-package" Condiments (like those from "fast-food" places) . . . Also a "Large" Cooler to keep those things that "need" refrigeration as cold as you can for as long as you can . . . Flash Lights/Candles/Lanterns, they even have a light you can wear on your "Fore-Head" (Home Depot/Lowe's have them) . . . Portable DVD player/HDTV/Radio (preferably one with a "hand-crank" as a source of power) . . .

AND - since I need electricity for so many things . . . Batteries (YES - BATTERIES of ALL SHAPES AND SIZES) for your electronics, chargers/car chargers, inverters, Oh Did I Mention - BATTERIES ! ! ! (AND - YES, I still need to get a "Solar" powered source for charging "stuff" too )

Oh BTW: I even have a 5 gallon Water "Bladder" for drinking water too, besides filling the Tub with water for those time when you need more water (Household Bleach can purify for drinking) or when you absolutely have to flush or get something clean . . .

And on that note and also just as important: Personal Hygiene things like "dry" shampoo, those "wipes" they use in hospitals for people who cannot get out of "bed", and 3% Hydrogen peroxide/Anti-bacterial liquids . . .

Last, but not least of all, if you have transportation Fill Your Tank before the storm and stay home unless you need to absolutely evacuate . . . AND Just Because You Have Cabin Fever - Driving Around Because You Do - NOT GOOD ! ! !

Oh and Clean Clothes too . . .

I know all this information is after the fact and what is still happening or has happened is done . . . However, I am hoping that it will come in handy for future reference to those who may or might find it at all useful . . . (Especially since I have spent the last 3 hours typing it up . . .)

are you like me and type with one finger ?

 

[awsum140]

I couldn't agree more, Uncle, but you fgot the "go bag" with all the important documents, like insurance policies, wills, bills of sale, and so on.

The big problem is that most people up here, especially in North Jersey and NYC/Staten Island, haven't got a clue about what real wind and heavy water can do. I'm old enough to remember Hurricane Hazel and how that one decimated the Jersey Shore in the 50's. There have been a few, in the 60's, that did significant damage as well, but again, these folks are either too young to remember what happened or, more likely, can't grasp that fact that it can happen again. I do blame government for letting the unbridled developement go on in flood prone or flood risk areas in the name of "improving the tax base". With FEMA offering flood insurance at a fraction of what it would really cost, it allowed people to build in places that should not have been built on - what the heck, if it gets wrecked in a storm we have insurance and can rebuild -, now we will all be stuck paying that bill, too. Another major problem is that these houses have been literally destroyed with many going underwater. Anything that they may have had that could serve as emergency supplies went with it. Another thing is that living ina highrise apartment kind of removes the reality of basic services from your conciousness, besides, we're up x number of floors and well clear.

To me, there was no excuse for not evacuating well in advance. There was more than enough notice about what was going to happen. Problem is, you can't cure stupid. I know some people that live on a lagoon lot in Brick Town, at the very top of the bay. They decided to ignore the warning and evacuation notices and ride it out. The water came up to the top of their bulkhead then came up another six or seven feet in less than a half hour. They got out, barefoot, in shorts and t-shirts with their three year old. The house is trashed along with everyhting in it. Now they've gone back to the house, with the child, to a house that is sopping wet, with no power and no heat. It'll be weeks before power comes back for them and even then the amount of work in the house just to dry out the electrical system is massive let alone make it habitable again. Like I said, you can't cure stupid.

 

[mudhill]

I couldn't agree more, Uncle, but you fgot the "go bag" with all the important documents, like insurance policies, wills, bills of sale, and so on.

The big problem is that most people up here, especially in North Jersey and NYC/Staten Island, haven't got a clue about what real wind and heavy water can do. I'm old enough to remember Hurricane Hazel and how that one decimated the Jersey Shore in the 50's. There have been a few, in the 60's, that did significant damage as well, but again, these folks are either too young to remember what happened or, more likely, can't grasp that fact that it can happen again. I do blame government for letting the unbridled developement go on in flood prone or flood risk areas in the name of "improving the tax base". With FEMA offering flood insurance at a fraction of what it would really cost, it allowed people to build in places that should not have been built on - what the heck, if it gets wrecked in a storm we have insurance and can rebuild -, now we will all be stuck paying that bill, too. Another major problem is that these houses have been literally destroyed with many going underwater. Anything that they may have had that could serve as emergency supplies went with it. Another thing is that living ina highrise apartment kind of removes the reality of basic services from your conciousness, besides, we're up x number of floors and well clear.

To me, there was no excuse for not evacuating well in advance. There was more than enough notice about what was going to happen. Problem is, you can't cure stupid. I know some people that live on a lagoon lot in Brick Town, at the very top of the bay. They decided to ignore the warning and evacuation notices and ride it out. The water came up to the top of their bulkhead then came up another six or seven feet in less than a half hour. They got out, barefoot, in shorts and t-shirts with their three year old. The house is trashed along with everyhting in it. Now they've gone back to the house, with the child, to a house that is sopping wet, with no power and no heat. It'll be weeks before power comes back for them and even then the amount of work in the house just to dry out the electrical system is massive let alone make it habitable again. Like I said, you can't cure stupid.

you have a great point Roland

i often think if a tornado would take my mobile home,,,,all my stores are in there,,,,i have tried to bury stuff underground,,but it always molds on me,,,,so i have given up on that.

what i need is a storm cellar,,,but can't afford to build one.