Sub Ohming for Newbies (Not new to vaping)

[serenity21899]

I really gotta quit saying I will never do something cuz it will happen sooner or later. I recently dropped down to 6mg nic and the only bad part of that is zero TH. I find myself cranking up the power on everything I own and vaping really strong menthol to compensate. At some point however, cranking up the power = burnt.

I have learned a bit about battery safety and so on but let's pretend I know nothing. I have a VaperShark dna 30, Kayfuns, and an Igo-W5. Haven't yet attempted dual coils. What information do I need to do this safely?

On a mech, say a Silver Bullet M or a copper Nemesis, same question? Especially battery amp limits, types etc. I am not likely to wrap a coil under 0.5Ω.

Thanks

 

[NealBJr]

I really gotta quit saying I will never do something cuz it will happen sooner or later. I recently dropped down to 6mg nic and the only bad part of that is zero TH. I find myself cranking up the power on everything I own and vaping really strong menthol to compensate. At some point however, cranking up the power = burnt.

I have learned a bit about battery safety and so on but let's pretend I know nothing. I have a VaperShark DNA 30, Kayfuns, and an Igo-W5. Haven't yet attempted dual coils. What information do I need to do this safely?

On a mech, say a Silver Bullet M or a copper Nemesis, same question? Especially battery amp limits, types etc. I am not likely to wrap a coil under 0.5Ω.

Thanks

For regulated mods, just make sure you have a 10a or over battery. Regulated mods will not fire if it's set under it's stated limits.

for mechanical though, there are no limits. Try going to Ohms Law Calculator site. A battery fully charged will be 4.2 volts, so use that in the volts setting. Now, if you're curious about the maximum setting of your battery, enter in the Amp limit of the battery and hit calculate.. it should tell you the lowest ohm rating you can get. If you're curious as to how many amps a .5 ohm coil will fire, then enter in .5 ohms and 4.2 volts then calculate. You'll see it hits 8.4 amps.

Now, for the Amp limit...find a battery that has a high amp limit. That is why some batteries are better than others. I know the Sony VTC 3,4, and 5's have a 30 amp limit for sustained. anything higher than that, and the battery will get too hot and might "explode". The Efest Purples are reported to be 35 amp, but some say that they are a rewrapped battery that has a 20 amp limit, and 35 amp is only for a few seconds. Do some research as to the amp limits of the batteries before you buy or before you sub ohm. If you don't know what the amp limit is... assume it's REAL low... definately UNDER 10 amp. And if it's labeled as "high drain", find out exactly what their version of high drain is. I have a pair of "high drain" batteries that have a 10a limit.

Sorry, Forgot link: http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php

 

[serenity21899]

On the Vaporshark it's a 1200 mah Lipo battery with a 10a limit. For mechs, I do need to buy new batteries, so suggestions are welcome.

 

[NealBJr]

On the Vaporshark it's a 1200 mah Lipo battery with a 10a limit. For mechs, I do need to buy new batteries, so suggestions are welcome.

If you use 18650's, the Sony VTC4's are proven reliable and offer a fairly High MaH at 2100. The Sony VTC5's, although reliable at 30a as well, I've heard mixed results about the MaH and sell for quite a bit more. Those Efest Purples I've heard mixed reports on as well, but even at the worst case scenario, they are 20a 2500MaH batteries, which should support a .25 ohm resistant setup. (the calculator says 2.1... I don't like to push limits). The Orbtronix SX30 is a 30a battery and 2100MaH, but is fairly expensive. I personally think they're rewrapped Sony VTC4's. The EH 1600 is also a 30a battery, however, It's only 1600MaH rated.

In the End, for 18650's, I'd suggest the Sony VTC4 as the safest buy and best value for the money. Other people may have other opinions, but if I had to recommend one, I't be the VTC4 which has been a well proven battery.

As far as the Vaporshark... I don't know if they use a sealed battery. Do you know the form factor of the battery (18650, 14500, 18350, etc)? or is it a sealed unit like the Vaporshark Pulse?

 

[serenity21899]

For regulated mods, just make sure you have a 10a or over battery. Regulated mods will not fire if it's set under it's stated limits.

for mechanical though, there are no limits. Try going to Ohms Law Calculator site. A battery fully charged will be 4.2 volts, so use that in the volts setting. Now, if you're curious about the maximum setting of your battery, enter in the Amp limit of the battery and hit calculate.. it should tell you the lowest ohm rating you can get. If you're curious as to how many amps a .5 ohm coil will fire, then enter in .5 ohms and 4.2 volts then calculate. You'll see it hits 8.4 amps.

Now, for the Amp limit...find a battery that has a high amp limit. That is why some batteries are better than others. I know the Sony VTC 3,4, and 5's have a 30 amp limit for sustained. anything higher than that, and the battery will get too hot and might "explode". The Efest Purples are reported to be 35 amp, but some say that they are a rewrapped battery that has a 20 amp limit, and 35 amp is only for a few seconds. Do some research as to the amp limits of the batteries before you buy or before you sub ohm. If you don't know what the amp limit is... assume it's REAL low... definately UNDER 10 amp. And if it's labeled as "high drain", find out exactly what their version of high drain is. I have a pair of "high drain" batteries that have a 10a limit.

Sorry, Forgot link: Ohm's Law Calculator

If you use 18650's, the Sony VTC4's are proven reliable and offer a fairly High MaH at 2100. The Sony VTC5's, although reliable at 30a as well, I've heard mixed results about the MaH and sell for quite a bit more. Those Efest Purples I've heard mixed reports on as well, but even at the worst case scenario, they are 20a 2500MaH batteries, which should support a .25 ohm resistant setup. (the calculator says 2.1... I don't like to push limits). The Orbtronix SX30 is a 30a battery and 2100MaH, but is fairly expensive. I personally think they're rewrapped Sony VTC4's. The EH 1600 is also a 30a battery, however, It's only 1600MaH rated.

In the End, for 18650's, I'd suggest the Sony VTC4 as the safest buy and best value for the money. Other people may have other opinions, but if I had to recommend one, I't be the VTC4 which has been a well proven battery.

As far as the Vaporshark... I don't know if they use a sealed battery. Do you know the form factor of the battery (18650, 14500, 18350, etc)? or is it a sealed unit like the Vaporshark Pulse?

Thank you for all the good info

I gave the Vaporshark battery info right about your last post. 1200mah lipo battery with a 10a limit. However, they will be soon offering a new DNA30 version with a removable 18650.

I would only be using 18650s on any mechs.

 

[Ryedan]

You've probably seen this before serenity21899, but just in case ... One Stop Reference Shop For New and Experienced Vapers .

Lots of info on high power vaping and with all the links you can pick and chose what you want to read.

 

[Baditude]

There's a lot of vital information resources in this ECF sticky, too: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...43-batteries-chargers-multi-meters-forum.html

Like you serenity21899, I often said I would never sub-ohm. As I progressed with a Provari with 2.5 ohm cartotanks to a Kayfun using 1.3 ohm coil, I have currently progressed to a 0.5 ohm dual microcoil build on a Patriot RDA on my Silver Bullet. I'm using Sony US18650VTC4 2100mAh 30A batteries.

Like you serenity21899, I have recently been dropping my nic level from 12mg to 6mg and sometimes even 0mg nic. I have even been using just straight flavorless Vg (vegetable glycerin) on my dripper; it has a naturally sweet flavor. This can be easily found for cheap at Walmart and CVS.

PBusardo and changing thoughts on sub ohm vaping:

 

[serenity21899]

There's a lot of vital information resources in this ECF sticky, too: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...43-batteries-chargers-multi-meters-forum.html

Like you serenity21899, I often said I would never sub-ohm. As I progressed with a Provari with 2.5 ohm cartotanks to a Kayfun using 1.3 ohm coil, I have currently progressed to a 0.5 ohm dual microcoil build on a Patriot RDA on my Silver Bullet. I'm using Sony US18650VTC4 2100mAh 30A batteries.

Like you serenity21899, I have recently been dropping my nic level from 12mg to 6mg and sometimes even 0mg nic. I have even been using just straight flavorless Vg (vegetable glycerin) on my dripper; it has a naturally sweet flavor. This can be easily found for cheap at Walmart and CVS.

PBusardo and changing thoughts on sub ohm vaping:

Thank you bad, everyone. There is just soooo much info out there now, I just needed to be pointed in the right direction.

I already vape high PG juice as I'm sensitive to high amount of VG. I'm not looking to cloud chase here. I just want some stinkin TH. I enjoy some unflavored now and again.

Bad, you have already had a huge impact on my vaping career so far. When I read a post before about you subohming it did not freak me out. I think that is just a natural progression. I haven't tried it because the whole concept kinda of scared me at first. But it's all about learning and safety here.

 

[Shootist]

I've said this before and I am sure I will say it again. I will never Sub-Ohm, have no desire to sub-ohm or even try it. I like the vape I get from all my devices whether they are RBA's or manufactured tank or carto's.

It isn't even about the juice or the flavor. I recently tried Rayon and guess what it gave me to much flavor and mostly to much sweetness from any of the juices I use. So I went back to cotton in my RBA's.

Sure if you want a throat hit from 0 nic juice maybe you need to S-O but you really aren't getting the same TH that you get from the nicotine and the PG. You are getting throat irritation from the heat of the vape.

Best of luck to you in your quest.

 

[serenity21899]

I've said this before and I am sure I will say it again. I will never Sub-Ohm, have no desire to sub-ohm or even try it. I like the vape I get from all my devices whether they are RBA's or manufactured tank or carto's.

It isn't even about the juice or the flavor. I recently tried Rayon and guess what it gave me to much flavor and mostly to much sweetness from any of the juices I use. So I went back to cotton in my RBA's.

Sure if you want a throat hit from 0 nic juice maybe you need to S-O but you really aren't getting the same TH that you get from the nicotine and the PG. You are getting throat irritation from the heat of the vape.

Best of luck to you in your quest.

Fortunately there are many ways to get a good vape. I'm one who likes to try a bunch of stuff, and see what I like the best.

 

[Ryedan]

I already vape high PG juice as I'm sensitive to high amount of VG. I'm not looking to cloud chase here. I just want some stinkin TH.

I mostly vape zero nic juice which as you can imagine has absolutely no TH. I sometimes use 2 mg nic and at 25 watts that now gives me very noticeable TH. 3 mg is too much for me except with one of my DIY juices. 3 mg also over nics me quite fast.

I've tried using a lot of menthol and that helps a bit. I've tried jalapeno flavoring and that just irritated my throat to the point I couldn't vape it even with one drop in a 10 ml bottle. Some people say strong cinnamon helps but I've never tried that. I'm not sure that vaping a lot of cinnamon is good for us.

I bought the VG nic base I'm using locally. It's a 120 ml bottle of 48 mg I bought about a year and a half ago. It has a strong peppery flavor now which might be why I find it has so much TH for me. I don't remember it being like this at first, but when I first started using it I was used to higher nic juice. Most people like the smoother tasting nic bases, but it is possible that the stronger stuff might give you more TH at lower levels.

Good luck with it

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I've said this before and I am sure I will say it again. I will never Sub-Ohm, have no desire to sub-ohm or even try it. I like the vape I get from all my devices whether they are RBA's or manufactured tank or carto's.

It isn't even about the juice or the flavor. I recently tried Rayon and guess what it gave me to much flavor and mostly to much sweetness from any of the juices I use. So I went back to cotton in my RBA's.

Sure if you want a throat hit from 0 nic juice maybe you need to S-O but you really aren't getting the same TH that you get from the nicotine and the PG. You are getting throat irritation from the heat of the vape.

Best of luck to you in your quest.

Can I ask the obvious question?

If you have never and will never sub ohm, how do you know the throat hit comes from "throat irritation from the heat of the vape"?

I'll go ahead and say that vapor temperature is a function of not just the resistance but how quickly you are able to feed eliquid to the coil(s). The faster the eliquid flows to the coils the cooler the vape will be.

Another factor is airflow, lots of airflow cools the vape too.

The atty design itself also contributes to the temperature of the vapor you create, small chambers tend to equate to a warmer vape than a large chamber.

Then you have airflow control drip tips (tips with their own air holes). The addition of air intake at the drip tip alters the vape experience and temperature.

It would seem to me that having no experience in the topic at hand that making definitive statements such as the one I pointed out is disingenuous.

Maurice

 

[serenity21899]

Can I ask the obvious question?

If you have never and will never sub ohm, how do you know the throat hit comes from "throat irritation from the heat of the vape"?

I'll go ahead and say that vapor temperature is a function of not just the resistance but how quickly you are able to feed eliquid to the coil(s). The faster the eliquid flows to the coils the cooler the vape will be.

Another factor is airflow, lots of airflow cools the vape too.

The atty design itself also contributes to the temperature of the vapor you create, small chambers tend to equate to a warmer vape than a large chamber.

Then you have airflow control drip tips (tips with their own air holes). The addition of air intake at the drip tip alters the vape experience and temperature.

It would seem to me that having no experience in the topic at hand that making definitive statements such as the one I pointed out is disingenuous.

Maurice

When I try a new topper rebuildable or not, I always use the same juice for the first tank. I am very familiar with this juice and I do this to be able to compare my new setup with what I have used in the past. TH varies depending on the factors Maurice mentioned.

Also, I do not like a really warm vape and use longer drip tips to cool it down a bit. If temperature were the only factor, doing this would yield me nothing in terms of TH.

 

[Baditude]

Did anyone actually watch the video of PBusardo that I posted earlier in this thread? He was previously against sub-ohm vaping. However, he has an open mind. He listened to those who actually know what they are doing, accept the risks, and sub-ohm safely. They are vaping either 6 mg nic or zero-nic because of sub-ohm vaping.

Wasn't the whole point of taking up vaping to stop smoking cigarettes, and to wean ourselves off of nicotine eventually, too? I was stuck at 12 mg nicotine for over a year. When I began sub-ohm vaping about a month ago I cut down to 6 mg, and now I use some 0-nic as well. Heck, I even vape straight Vg sometimes. At this point I really don't need nicotine, but I still have the habit for the hand-to-mouth and inhale/exhale behavior.

Not everyone who sub-ohms is a cloud chaser. A side benefit is the ability to wean our nicotine level to zero. I now admit, I never considered this perspective before when I was critical of people who sub-ohm.

 

[serenity21899]

Did anyone actually watch the video of PBusardo that I posted earlier in this thread? He was previously against sub-ohm vaping. However, he has an open mind. He listened to those who actually know what they are doing, accept the risks, and sub-ohm safely. They are vaping either 6 mg nic or zero-nic because of sub-ohm vaping.

Wasn't the whole point of taking up vaping to stop smoking cigarettes, and to wean ourselves off of nicotine eventually, too? I was stuck at 12 mg nicotine for over a year. When I began sub-ohm vaping about a month ago I cut down to 6 mg, and now I use some 0-nic as well. Heck, I even vape straight Vg sometimes. At this point I really don't need nicotine, but I still have the habit for the hand-to-mouth and inhale/exhale behavior.

Not everyone who sub-ohms is a cloud chaser. A side benefit is the ability to wean our nicotine level to zero. I now admit, I never considered this perspective before when I was critical of people who sub-ohm.

I felt the same way. I equated cloud chasing with subohming. I know a guy who cloud chases. There are cloud blowing competitions and a whole culture that goes with it. I'm not into any of that.

I did smoke heavily for a long time and my goal is definitely to not smoke and to eventually get rid of the nic altogether. The first 18 months were easy for me. The last month or so, not so much. As I stated in the OP I'm struggling with 6mg. So, I see nothing wrong in exploring every option to get what I'm looking for and to not go back to smoking. Subohming is only one option.

When done responsibly, there is nothing wrong with this. As I have always said there are many options available to us. Whatever works for you is the right thing to do.

 

[beckdg]

i sub ohm below .5Ω.
i vape approx. 45 mg/ml.
this is my daily driver.
i consume roughly 6ml of this on a daily basis.
sometimes more, almost twice.
this keeps me level, focused and good natured.
also keeps me off the stinkies and without heavy labored breathing and massive tar filled phlem production clogging up my airways.
my initial reasoning for vaping was so i could "smoke" and still be within a close enough proximity to my children to not negatively impact them mentally/emotionally without (possibly) negatively impacting their health.
i have no intentions on quitting and/or cutting back. in fact, removing the stressors of such intentions, i believe have greatly aided in my quit smoking success this "attempt". nothing worse than stressing over forcing yourself to refrain from the next cigarette to create overwhelming anxiety that pushes you towards it faster and harder.

sub-ohm does allow (or force) many people to cut down on their nic levels. for me it has allowed me to cut down my juice intake, free up my hands for useful purposes, accomplish satisfaction from my vape and stave off 4PAD relatively stress free.

for the record, i do not cloud chase.

 

[Shootist]

Did anyone actually watch the video of PBusardo that I posted earlier in this thread? He was previously against sub-ohm vaping. However, he has an open mind. He listened to those who actually know what they are doing, accept the risks, and sub-ohm safely. They are vaping either 6 mg nic or zero-nic because of sub-ohm vaping.

Wasn't the whole point of taking up vaping to stop smoking cigarettes, and to wean ourselves off of nicotine eventually, too? I was stuck at 12 mg nicotine for over a year. When I began sub-ohm vaping about a month ago I cut down to 6 mg, and now I use some 0-nic as well. Heck, I even vape straight Vg sometimes. At this point I really don't need nicotine, but I still have the habit for the hand-to-mouth and inhale/exhale behavior.

Not everyone who sub-ohms is a cloud chaser. A side benefit is the ability to wean our nicotine level to zero. I now admit, I never considered this perspective before when I was critical of people who sub-ohm.

Yes I've watched just about all of Phil's videos in the 3+ months I've been vaping and I re-watched the one you posted.

Also the reason sub-ohmer use less nic in their juice is because of the amount of vapor being delivered and along with that the amount of nic being delivered with that vapor.

They, you, are still getting the same amount of nic as they did before.
That and the harder throat hit from higher nic levels.

So my goal, at some point, is to stop doing all things associated with smoking and that includes vaping. So hopefully sometime in the next 6 to 12 months I will attempt to get off nicotine completely and then stop using a personal vaporizer. All that is up in the air but that is the goals I have set for myself.

I certainly don't need and don't want an activity that delivers more nicotine in a shorter period of time even if I am successful in cutting down on the nicotine strength of my e-liquid by doing it. I will still be getting the same amount of nicotine as I did previously.

It isn't all about just the addiction to nicotine and satisfying that addiction. I notice this when I was trying to quite several years ago. I cut down on the number of cigarettes I smoked and sometimes didn't have one for a day or two (That was hard). When I did have a cigarette I got a RUSH. Then I'd have another trying to capture that RUSH again, which I didn't at least not the same RUSH. That rush was from the Nicotine.

That's where the real addiction comes in. Your brain is always trying to capture that initial RUSH then the secondary physical addiction takes over.
Same with alcohol. The brain wants that initial RUSH which is long gone after the first drink.

 

[Shootist]

As I posted above.

Sub-Ohming and with that cutting down on the nicotine strength you are using is not dropping the amount of nicotine you are ingesting.

It is supplying the same amount of nicotine to your system in a shorter period of time.

For the OP that stated they are trying, will try, to get off nicotine completely in my opinion Sub-Ohming is a poor choice to do that.

At some point you, and the people around you, have to Buck Up (Grow a pair) and deal with the withdraw symptoms to be completely free of nicotine.

Just sayin.

I have first hand knowledge of this as 22+ years ago I went through it with another substance. It isn't easy, it isn't pretty but if you actually want to be free of a substance you have to do it and go through it.

 

[Ryedan]

Can I ask the obvious question?

If you have never and will never sub ohm, how do you know the throat hit comes from "throat irritation from the heat of the vape"?

I'll go ahead and say that vapor temperature is a function of not just the resistance but how quickly you are able to feed eliquid to the coil(s). The faster the eliquid flows to the coils the cooler the vape will be.

Another factor is airflow, lots of airflow cools the vape too.

The atty design itself also contributes to the temperature of the vapor you create, small chambers tend to equate to a warmer vape than a large chamber.

Then you have airflow control drip tips (tips with their own air holes). The addition of air intake at the drip tip alters the vape experience and temperature.

It would seem to me that having no experience in the topic at hand that making definitive statements such as the one I pointed out is disingenuous.

Maurice

I could only 'like' your post once Maurice, so let me add this:

LIKE.

 

[Ryedan]

Did anyone actually watch the video of PBusardo that I posted earlier in this thread? He was previously against sub-ohm vaping. However, he has an open mind. He listened to those who actually know what they are doing, accept the risks, and sub-ohm safely.

I know a lot of people still do, but I don't really think much about 'sub ohm' vaping anymore. I don't see much difference between vaping at 25 watts on a 0.5 ohm coil in a mech mod and vaping at 25 watts on a 1.8 ohm coil on a regulated mod. They are both high power vaping. Batteries are not likely to vent in a regulated mod, but our batteries these days are so much better than they were a few years back that's not much of a safety issue anymore. Unless you're using the wrong batteries, in which case you've got a problem in a regulated high power mod too.

Meh, a lot of people 'get it' and some don't. There's still a bunch of FUD out there to wade through too and some are more influenced by that than others. I enjoy it when people like Pbusardo and you Bad 'get it' . IMO a person's personality is a huge part of this process, much more than their technical background.

Just my

Vape on