SXmini Q Class Powered by YiHi SX450 chip

[KGB7]

Typically industry calculation is to use around 3.7V, not the cutoff voltage. Also, the CDR is only for constant discharge. batteries can safely support higher discharge rates for short periods of time without being unsafe.

Thats why many mods have an auto shut of point. I doubt many cloud chasers have the lung capacity to inhale the vapor at 200w for 15sec, let alone for 5sec.

Vapor volume at 200w for 5 sec is very hot and will fill most lungs and some, unless you run 10k every morning.

I walk a mile every day and i cant inhale more then 60w worth of vaper at subohm for more then 3sec.

Inhaling vapor at 200w, ... you better be a supper man.

 

[BigEgo]

There are a dozen 200w box mods. dna has a reputation to uphold, i highly doubt they want their customers to end up in ER and a line with lawsuits at every court room.

A 260w box mod came out a year ago and i havent heard anyone blowing the moon out if its orbit.

You do realize Evolv (DNA) is using a 3 cell battery, right?

 

[KenD]

Typically industry calculation is to use around 3.7V, not the cutoff voltage. Also, the CDR is only for constant discharge. Batteries can safely support higher discharge rates for short periods of time without being unsafe.

Sure, but 3.7v is not the cutoff, and you need to calculate by the cutoff voltage. And yes, as I said, batteries can handle bursts higher than their cdr but as the length of a pulse - and the pause between pulses - is rarely defined (and there's no standard), designing a device to exceed the set limit is a bad idea. Irresponsible.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[KGB7]

You do realize Evolv (DNA) is using a 3 cell battery, right?

Most DNA 200 use 3 cell "Lipo" to keep the mod small.

I only know of Reuleaux DNA 200 that uses 3x 18650s.

 

[KGB7]

Sure, but 3.7v is not the cutoff, and you need to calculate by the cutoff voltage. And yes, as I said, batteries can handle bursts higher than their cdr but as the length of a pulse - and the pause between pulses - is rarely defined (and there's no standard), designing a device to exceed the set limit is a bad idea. Irresponsible.

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Even a 200hp car in the wrong hands is irresponsible. Yet we have 800hp street legal cars.

The fault false on the driver for being reckless and irresponsible with 800hp, not the car maker.

30hp or 30w, no one put a gun to your head to buy it or use it at full potential. But, it is your responsibility to be safe not to crash or burn your face off.

Even a scarecrow knew he wanted a brain. You have a brain, so use it to your advantage.

 

[Yozhik]

Sure, but 3.7v is not the cutoff, and you need to calculate by the cutoff voltage.

Nope. First off, the cutoff voltage you cite isn't based on the battery spec (which is typically around 2.5V). Rather it's a voltage used in the vaping industry to maintain battery life, which has nothing to do with how the batteries perform under load. Second, the nominal voltage given by the spec is what one would expect on a charged battery at the CDR. That's usually 3.6 to 3.7V.

 

[BigEgo]

Sure, but 3.7v is not the cutoff, and you need to calculate by the cutoff voltage. And yes, as I said, batteries can handle bursts higher than their cdr but as the length of a pulse - and the pause between pulses - is rarely defined (and there's no standard), designing a device to exceed the set limit is a bad idea. Irresponsible.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

Exactly. Mooch has made this clear numerous times in his posts when discussing "pulse ratings." As he says, there is no standard anywhere in the literature for a so-called "pulse rating." It can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Look, I am not saying a veteran vaper who knows which batteries to buy (30A cdr) will have any issues. As was said, these batteries can safely handle a pulse higher than the cdr. The problem comes when a new vaper runs out and buys a couple of LG 3000mAh batteries with a 20A cdr and tries to use them. Or worse, they buy an Efest or another rewrap claiming to be 40A when it's in reality a 15A battery.

Oh, but the vape shop will stop that from happening, right? Nope. The vape shop employees mostly have no clue and are happy to sell whichever cheap rewrapped battery they have behind the counter.

I have no problem with 200w or 500w or 1kw as long as the mod and board are designed for it and include a built in battery (this is why Evolv went with a Lipo pack). If yihi wants to release a 200W board, they need to make it 3 18650 or a Lipo device. I expect such shenanigans from Joyetech, but not from Yihi.

 

[Yozhik]

I have no problem with 200w or 500w or 1kw as long as the mod and board are designed for it and include a built in battery (this is why Evolv went with a Lipo pack). If yihi wants to release a 200W board, they need to make it 3 18650 or a Lipo device. I expect such shenanigans from Joyetech, but not from Yihi.

I've seen enough poorly design LiPo enclosures on DNA 200 mods to say that I don't think Evolv exactly went for safety. Rather they just foisted liability on someone else. At least 18650s have built-in impact and fire resistance, whereas modders often seem to just cram in the largest LiPo they can without regard to those issues. Also, the same "what if someone uses the wrong battery" argument applies to the DNA 200 just as well. Whether it's a 3S LiPo or a triple 18650 config, there are plenty of batteries that won't meet the DNA-200's requirements in those configurations.

 

[KGB7]

Exactly. Mooch has made this clear numerous times in his posts when discussing "pulse ratings." As he says, there is no standard anywhere in the literature for a so-called "pulse rating." It can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Look, I am not saying a veteran vaper who knows which batteries to buy (30A cdr) will have any issues. As was said, these batteries can safely handle a pulse higher than the cdr. The problem comes when a new vaper runs out and buys a couple of LG 3000mAh batteries with a 20A cdr and tries to use them. Or worse, they buy an Efest or another rewrap claiming to be 40A when it's in reality a 15A battery.

Oh, but the vape shop will stop that from happening, right? Nope. The vape shop employees mostly have no clue and are happy to sell whichever cheap rewrapped battery they have behind the counter.

I have no problem with 200w or 500w or 1kw as long as the mod and board are designed for it and include a built in battery (this is why Evolv went with a Lipo pack). If yihi wants to release a 200W board, they need to make it 3 18650 or a Lipo device. I expect such shenanigans from Joyetech, but not from Yihi.

You are not wrong. Perhaps the new Yihi chip has something new up its sleeve that we have not seen on the market. Yihi has built a reputation and they wont throw it out of the window just because they decided to use 2 batteries.

If you look back few years, vaping 30w on single battery was insane, now we are safely vaping at 75w on single battery.

Be patient and let Yihi reveal its new chip.

 

[BigEgo]

I've seen enough poorly design LiPo enclosures on DNA 200 mods to say that I don't think Evolv exactly went for safety. Rather they just foisted liability on someone else. At least 18650s have built-in impact and fire resistance, whereas modders often seem to just cram in the largest LiPo they can without regard to those issues. Also, the same "what if someone uses the wrong battery" argument applies to the DNA 200 just as well. Whether it's a 3S LiPo or a triple 18650 config, there are plenty of batteries that won't meet the DNA-200's requirements in those configurations.

The DNA board was not designed for 18650's. That was only added later by modders. For one thing, the board does not have reverse polarity protection built in (because it was designed for internal Lipos) so we get these ugly battery sled hacks like is done on the Reuleaux.

And it's up to the modder to select the proper Lipo pack before they sell their mods. Evolv makes it very clear what the minimum specs should be and even recommends a specific pack.

It's true that Evolv doesn't have total control because the modders are going to do what they want. But at least they designed it with as much safety in mind as was possible from their end. I suspect Evolv will eventually get tired of these lazy or irresponsible modders and simply release their own mod in the future.

 

[KGB7]

Exactly. Mooch has made this clear numerous times in his posts when discussing "pulse ratings." As he says, there is no standard anywhere in the literature for a so-called "pulse rating." It can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Look, I am not saying a veteran vaper who knows which batteries to buy (30A cdr) will have any issues. As was said, these batteries can safely handle a pulse higher than the cdr. The problem comes when a new vaper runs out and buys a couple of LG 3000mAh batteries with a 20A cdr and tries to use them. Or worse, they buy an Efest or another rewrap claiming to be 40A when it's in reality a 15A battery.

Oh, but the vape shop will stop that from happening, right? Nope. The vape shop employees mostly have no clue and are happy to sell whichever cheap rewrapped battery they have behind the counter.

I have no problem with 200w or 500w or 1kw as long as the mod and board are designed for it and include a built in battery (this is why Evolv went with a Lipo pack). If yihi wants to release a 200W board, they need to make it 3 18650 or a Lipo device. I expect such shenanigans from Joyetech, but not from Yihi.

There are lot of crappy Lipo batteries on the market; 3 cell or 10 cell. If you spend time on FPV or drone forums, you will quickly learn that not all Lipos are equal.

You can buy a cordless drill with a lipo battery at Home Depot for the price of a good quality Lipo battery. That itself should tell you about the low quality Lipo used in a drill.
Vape mod makers that use Lipos, are in the market to make a quick buck in the next 6 month, because after 6 month there will be a showroom full of new shiny mods.

And the last time i checked, China has very little regulations on anything. They even copied BMW vehicles and BMW couldnt stop them.

 

[KGB7]

The DNA board was not designed for 18650's. That was only added later by modders. For one thing, the board does not have reverse polarity protection built in (because it was designed for internal Lipos) so we get these ugly battery sled hacks like is done on the Reuleaux.

And it's up to the modder to select the proper Lipo pack before they sell their mods. Evolv makes it very clear what the minimum specs should be and even recommends a specific pack.

It's true that Evolv doesn't have total control because the modders are going to do what they want. But at least they designed it with as much safety in mind as was possible from their end. I suspect Evolv will eventually get tired of these lazy or irresponsible modders and simply release their own mod in the future.

With all the issues DNA and Vapor Shark had with DNA, i simply dont trust them, no matter what they say or what they design. They burned that bridge many times over.

And speaking of Lipos on DNA 200. Here is a long list of various Lipo batteries mods that are used with DNA 200 chip.
DNA 200 Box Mods – A Summary of all the DNA 200 Mods

There is lack of info on Lipo batteries themselves that are used in those mods. For all we know, those mods are using chepo $5 Lipo batteries. We see it every day with 18650s batteries, whos specs are skewed and exaggerated by 10 fold.

So just because a mod has a Lipo batteries, does not mean you should trust it. High end, high quality Lipo batteries, can cost more then most of the mods on the market.

 

[BigEgo]

With all the issues DNA and Vapor Shark had with DNA, i simply dont trust them, no matter what they say or what they design. They burned that bridge many times over.

And speaking of Lipos on DNA 200. Here is a long list of various Lipo batteries and mods that are used with DNA 200 chip.
DNA 200 Box Mods – A Summary of all the DNA 200 Mods

There is lack of info on Lipo batteries themselves that are used in those mods. For all we know, those mods are using chepo $5 Lipo batteries. We see it every day with 18650s batteries, whos specs are skewed and exaggerated by 10 fold.

So just because a mod has a Lepo batteries, does not mean you should trust it. High end, high quality Lepo batteries, can cost more then most of the mods on the market.

I agree that the quality of Lipos varies just like it does with 18650's. Evolv recommends the "Fullymax" brand which is what they used in their Beta testing. I am not a Lipo expert, but from my reading, it appears Fullymax is well respected in the RC car and drone world.

 

[Pdizzle]

I only care about this if Yihi releases a modders board that I can hook up to a lipo preferably 3s without blowing up the chip

 

[Yozhik]

The DNA board was not designed for 18650's. That was only added later by modders. For one thing, the board does not have reverse polarity protection built in (because it was designed for internal Lipos) so we get these ugly battery sled hacks like is done on the Reuleaux.

And it's up to the modder to select the proper Lipo pack before they sell their mods. Evolv makes it very clear what the minimum specs should be and even recommends a specific pack.

It's true that Evolv doesn't have total control because the modders are going to do what they want. But at least they designed it with as much safety in mind as was possible from their end. I suspect Evolv will eventually get tired of these lazy or irresponsible modders and simply release their own mod in the future.

Evolv supports the use of 18650s with the DNA 200, as shown by their own comments and the addition of the 133W mode to support dual 18650 configurations.

As to the issue of safe battery enclosures, Evolv only specifies the electrical requirements of the battery. They don't provide information about how to design safe battery enclosures. Nor do they do what would be the sensible thing, which is to provide safe battery packages to begin with. There are industry standards relevant to consumer products and batteries, but have you ever heard Evolv mention any of them? I certainly haven't from them, but they are more than happy to sell me a chip and recommend that I use an unprotected 3S LiPo battery. That's being safety conscious, seriously?

Regardless of the chip used, one of the best arguments for regulating the industry in my opinion is that safe physical battery enclosures are pretty much an afterthought in this industry. It was already a problem with 18650s and now it's been made even worse with respect to designs using LiPos.

 

[HandsomeStan]

More info posted from yihi.

"Q: 1. 200w from dual 18650 ???? 133w maybe ?
Q: 2. your dream come true. But I'm not sure if it'll be a true 200w

A: As long as make sure the 35A battery, with 0.2ohm resistance, Voltage 6.32V, Current 31.62A, it can reach 200W for sure, we already tested it."

 

[KGB7]

I agree that the quality of Lipos varies just like it does with 18650's. Evolv recommends the "Fullymax" brand which is what they used in their Beta testing. I am not a Lipo expert, but from my reading, it appears Fullymax is well respected in the RC car and drone world.

One way to find out, is to take every DNA200 mod apart and see if all of them use Fullymax OEM batteries, and not rewrapped batteries with Fullymax label.
We have seen rewrapped batteries many times.

Knowing what comes out of China now days, i wouldnt trust any of DNA 200 mods to use genuine Fullymax Lipos, unless one of you good forum members could verify it with a lab equipment.

There is lack of QC at the end of day, which would cost a lot of money to DNA maker to make sure that every DNA chip box maker used Lipos that they recommend. DNA would have to send a human being to every factory to ensure that all DNA 200w box makers used that specific battery. And that's not financially feasible.

Even factories that make Apple products and Apple Products have had its own issues in the past.
Vape market on the other hand, unlike Apple, has far less regulations and less oversight. So what you buy as far as vape products with batteries, is far more concerning to me then an Apple product. And because of such concerns, you should buy a mod and batteries separately.

just my 2 cents.

 

[KenD]

More info posted from yihi.

"Q: 1. 200w from dual 18650 ???? 133w maybe ?
Q: 2. your dream come true. But I'm not sure if it'll be a true 200w

A: As long as make sure the 35A battery, with 0.2ohm resistance, Voltage 6.32V, Current 31.62A, it can reach 200W for sure, we already tested it."

Hmm, there are no 35 amp 18650s.

Look, I didn't mean to make this an E vs Y battle, nor do I hold Y in bad regard (I've criticized E much more). I will, however, not excuse any manufacturer simply because I like their products. My only point is that with 200w on two 18650s you're exceeding the specs of the battery, and I don't think that is responsible conduct by a manufacturer (that goes for everyone who does 200w with two batteries). Feel free to disagree on the latter, but the former is a fact. "You don't need to use it at 200w" is a bad excuse - the mod is designed to go that high, therefore it should be able to go that high safely.

I've said my bit.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[KGB7]

Hmm, there are no 35 amp 18650s.

Look, I didn't mean to make this an E vs Y battle, nor do I hold Y in bad regard (I've criticized E much more). I will, however, not excuse any manufacturer simply because I like their products. My only point is that with 200w on two 18650s you're exceeding the specs of the battery, and I don't think that is responsible conduct by a manufacturer (that goes for everyone who does 200w with two batteries). Feel free to disagree on the latter, but the former is a fact. "You don't need to use it at 200w" is a bad excuse - the mod is designed to go that high, therefore it should be able to go that high safely.

I've said my bit.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

You are not wrong. Perhaps the new Yihi chip has something new up its sleeve that we have not seen on the market. Yihi has built a reputation and they wont throw it out of the window just because they decided to use 2 batteries.

If you look back few years, vaping 30w on single battery was insane, now we are safely vaping at 75w on single battery.

Be patient and let Yihi reveal its new chip.

Im kicking my own horse.

 

[Pdizzle]

Lol
Evolv designs and sells boards. They don't manufacture and sell Complete mods like yihi.
It's not evolv responsibility to direct people how to use a lipo safely or build a battery protective enclosure for their box mod projects.