Temperature Control Newbie

[humax]

Hello everyone great site you have here.



I'm looking to have a go at TC and I will be using a ipv 4S on a Bellus rta. I don't think the ipv 4S has a setting for SS so I'm thinking that I will be using maybe Ni200 or Titanium wire I also hear good things about the NiFe30 wire. As the Bellus rta only has a small deck what do you guys think would be the best wire for a newbie like me to start with.


Thanks All

 

[K_Tech]

Hi Humax, and welcome.

I don't have any experience with the 4S, so I'm only going from what I'm reading on the Internet.

If the information is correct, the 4S only supports Ni200 and Ti in TC mode. Of those two choices, I'd go with Ti.

Ti is stiffer than Ni200, which makes it a little easier to work with, especially for someone just getting into temperature control.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

I've tried all wires and for single coils, I prefer NI200, either 28 or 26.

Just make the proper number of wraps for the OHM range you're going for, consider that you have to have the coil spaced (so your coil looks like a tiny spring), wick well and you should be set.

With NI200 @ 28gauge , it'll be about 14 wraps at 3mm for 0.2ohm coil.
Coil wrapping

And 28 or 26 gauge is actually not as bad to work with as some people claim, you just have to be a bit gentle and have your screwdriver or jig in the coil while you install, something that people usually do anyways.

For TI, it's actually worse to work with I find, very springy, doesn't hold it's shape and hard to reshape if it goes crooked, plus for health hazard I consider it worse than nickel. I also find a much more pronounce metal flavour to it, and I simply don't like it much (but others will swear by it).

As far as the best metal for TC, NI200 is the best one for it's TCR value for accurate TC.

Remember that for NI and TI NEEDS to be in TC mode all the time, NEVER dry burn them. It's important to build them correctly (the spacing between the wraps is absolutely important, and needs to be uniform across the coil). The way I do it, is to roll the wraps tight, then stretch it out, then push it back, and 9/10 it makes it very even across.

Note that you can go with SS if your mod can do it, but note that while some people have no problem with it at all (depends on mod and tank used), others have issues with SS in single coil setups (I have had plenty), but SS works just fine for me in dual coil setups.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

I have a 4s and a bellus... your best bet will be 28 gauge Ti1 or 30 gauge Ni200. For Ti1, you'll make a 7 wrap 2.5 mm duals to get to around .2 ohms. For the Ni200, you'll need around 12 wraps 2.5 mm duals or 8 wraps single if you use the single coil isolator. I do not like the isolator, and think 12 wrap coils will be problematic to install and so recommend the Ti1. Keep your coils evenly spaced.

Imfallen is correct in that Ti1 is a bit stiff and springy. Wrap your coils very tight, spread it out on your mandrel, then compress it again. Your coils should be pretty even. When installing the coils, press them right against the posts while tightening the screws, then pull them away from the posts to tension and position. To prevent your coils from distorting while wicking, give the cotton (or Rayon if you prefer) a twist or two before putting it through the coils. Once poditioned, untwist and fluff a bit... you'll want your wick to fill the coil... no gaps... but not distort the coil.

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[humax]

Thanks for the help so far guys i really appreciate it. I didn't realize that T.C was so complicated. Just had a look on Stealthvape as i normally get my wire from there and sometimes from i think its called the Mesh-Company on E bay, and they seem to sell a few different types of wire

Tempered Ni200
NI200-Ribbon
Annealed Nickel-Ni200

Are any of them okay to use on the Bellus ?

Thanks All

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Thanks for the help so far guys i really appreciate it. I didn't realize that T.C was so complicated. Just had a look on Stealthvape as i normally get my wire from there and sometimes from i think its called the Mesh-Company on E bay, and they seem to sell a few different types of wire

Tempered Ni200
NI200-Ribbon
Annealed Nickel-Ni200

Are any of them okay to use on the Bellus ?

Thanks All

It really depends on your deck, the size of coils it can handle.

Check the size of the coils and the Ohm... I tend to go from 0.2 ohm and up. As I don't have a Belus, I'd have to guess something like a 2.5mm (as per advised by Shawn), but the actual width of the coil for it to fit correctly (as it must NOT touch the side walls of the chamber)and the question if you're going with a single or dual coil setup.

(examples for 0.2 Ohm)
Single: with NI, I'd say a 28 gauge with 17 wraps
Dual: you might consider going with TI (since your mod doesn't do SS, otherwise I'd say go with SS), you'd go with two coils of about 7 wraps

The difference is quite large between the NI being much lower in resistance than all the other metals, which are fairly similar in range.

There is a learning curve for TC, but it's not that hard... the important thing is learning to balance the coil size against decent OHM range. Playing with the calculator (link in previous post) can give you perspective.

And if you are starting to build on a regular basis, I would recommend getting a tester.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Thanks for the help so far guys i really appreciate it. I didn't realize that T.C was so complicated. Just had a look on Stealthvape as i normally get my wire from there and sometimes from i think its called the Mesh-Company on E bay, and they seem to sell a few different types of wire

Tempered Ni200
NI200-Ribbon
Annealed Nickel-Ni200

Are any of them okay to use on the Bellus ?

Thanks All

Not really. Again, the deck of the bellus is quite small and your coil would have to be quite large to reach an appropriate resistance. This is why I recommend Ti1.

Look at this on eBay TEMCo Titanium Wire Surgical Grade 1 Resistance AWG ga | eBay

However, if you feel you MUST use Ni200, the tempered will be easier to work with...

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[humax]

It really depends on your deck, the size of coils it can handle.

Check the size of the coils and the Ohm... I tend to go from 0.2 ohm and up. As I don't have a Belus, I'd have to guess something like a 2.5mm (as per advised by Shawn), but the actual width of the coil for it to fit correctly (as it must NOT touch the side walls of the chamber)and the question if you're going with a single or dual coil setup.

(examples for 0.2 Ohm)
Single: with NI, I'd say a 28 gauge with 17 wraps
Dual: you might consider going with TI (since your mod doesn't do SS, otherwise I'd say go with SS), you'd go with two coils of about 7 wraps

The difference is quite large between the NI being much lower in resistance than all the other metals, which are fairly similar in range.

There is a learning curve for TC, but it's not that hard... the important thing is learning to balance the coil size against decent OHM range. Playing with the calculator (link in previous post) can give you perspective.

And if you are starting to build on a regular basis, I would recommend getting a tester.

I love my Bellus but at the same time I hate it as its such a hard deck to build on. At the moment I run it with two small claptons and its great. I always like to use two coils as I think the flavour is better so I think I will stick with a two coil setup unless the flavour is just as good in TC with one coil. I'm liking the sound of 7 wraps if I can get away with it I would hate to think I needed 17 wraps on a Bellus tank.

 

[humax]

Not really. Again, the deck of the bellus is quite small and your coil would have to be quite large to reach an appropriate resistance. This is why I recommend Ti1.

Look at this on eBay TEMCo Titanium Wire Surgical Grade 1 Resistance AWG ga | eBay

However, if you feel you MUST use Ni200, the tempered will be easier to work with...

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Thanks for the link Shawn but I'm in the U.K

Its really good that you are here as you have the same setup as me so you know how hard it is to build on this deck.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Thanks for the link Shawn but I'm in the U.K

Its really good that you are here as you have the same setup as me so you know how hard it is to build on this deck.

Well, then, you're in luck... very good wire company...

GR1 (Grade 1) Titanium Wire - 0.3mm (300 Micron - 29 AWG) - Vacuum Annealed

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[humax]

So from what I can gather I need some Ti-1 wire and do 7 wraps around a 2.5 jig and space the coils. I'm not to sure what Ti-1 is called over here in the U.K but I will have a look on eBay.

 

[humax]

Well, then, you're in luck... very good wire company...

GR1 (Grade 1) Titanium Wire - 0.3mm (300 Micron - 29 AWG) - Vacuum Annealed

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Thanks Shawn just what i was looking for. Would 28 AWG be okay as I'm thinking it might be better to work with as its a bit thicker ?

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Thanks Shawn just what i was looking for. Would 28 AWG be okay as I'm thinking it might be better to work with as its a bit thicker ?

They appear to not have 28 AWG on their site... however, they do have 27, and that should work... you'll come in around .16 with dual 7 wrap 2.5 mm coils.

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[humax]

They appear to not have 28 AWG on their site... however, they do have 27, and that should work... you'll come in around .16 with dual 7 wrap 2.5 mm coils.

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Thanks again Shawn. They also sell on ebay and i found it here
0.35mm (27 AWG) - Grade 1 Titanium Wire - Vacuum Annealed - - 10 Metre Spool | eBay

They also sell it in 24-AWG

0.5mm (24AWG) - Grade 1 Titanium Wire - Vacuum Annealed - 10 Metre Spool | eBay

Or am i pushing it by using 24 AWG I think I'm really looking for some wire that does not need a lot of wraps as you know what the Bellus is like for fitting big coils in it. So i was thinking the 24-AWG might work better.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Thanks again Shawn. They also sell on ebay and i found it here
0.35mm (27 AWG) - Grade 1 Titanium Wire - Vacuum Annealed - - 10 Metre Spool | eBay

They also sell it in 24-AWG

0.5mm (24AWG) - Grade 1 Titanium Wire - Vacuum Annealed - 10 Metre Spool | eBay

Or am i pushing it by using 24 AWG I think I'm really looking for some wire that does not need a lot of wraps as you know what the Bellus is like for fitting big coils in it. So i was thinking the 24-AWG might work better.

You might have your wires crossed... pun intended... to decrease the number of wraps to hit a certain resistance, you'd want to increase the AWG/decrease the diameter. With 24 AWG Ti1, you'd need 9 wraps to hit .11... I think the cut off for the 4s is .1... very little wiggle room, there... I've got 28 AWG here... I'll go throw a build in and take some pics...

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[humax]

Just been watching this video on YouTube about spaced coils,is it okay to use this method.

 

[humax]

You might have your wires crossed... pun intended... to decrease the number of wraps to hit a certain resistance, you'd want to increase the AWG/decrease the diameter. With 24 AWG Ti1, you'd need 9 wraps to hit .11... I think the cut off for the 4s is .1... very little wiggle room, there... I've got 28 AWG here... I'll go throw a build in and take some pics...

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Thanks Shawn that would be helpful.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Coil tight...

Then stretch waaaasy out...

And compress to get nice even spaces.

Repeat.

Install the first coil. Note the leads bent up and away.

Then install the next coil. The leads are again bent. This keeps the coils somewhat stationary while the screws are tightened.

Prettify the coils by gently pulling them away from the posts, and pushing them towards the center.

Wick, and...

Juice, and tuck, and trim.

Vapors!



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[Shawn Hoefer]

Sorry the pics are all rotated...

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[humax]

I'm starting to think you and me were separated at birth. Not only do we have the same Mods and Tanks we also have the same Ohm Meter

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that Shawn you went way and beyond with it,and i do appreciate it. Okay I'm going to order some 27 AWG) - Grade 1 Titanium Wire and with any luck it will be here in a few days. Also going to watch your videos as well. Will keep you updated mate

Thanks Again