Tesla Nano 120W Steampunk - Battery advice

[Oomee]

Well, Tesla makes no statement that I have found on the input amp limit, the output amp limit is stated as 35a.
The input amp limit of the three I've owned varied between 20.265a ~ 23.405a before they started 'throttling' back, using calibrated & certified equipment.
Their claimed output I found accurate, enough, 34.15 ~ 35.605a.

It goes without saying, the above only goes for the 3 units tested, if the manufacturer doesn't release the input amp limit I certainly am not.

The point I am trying make is that the manufacturer states to use a minimum of 30 Amp battery. This would indicate that they have designed and built the device to not draw more than that, even if failed. In a catastrophic failure, the device SHOULD have fuses/ptc that will open the circuit if the current exceeds that.

I understand what has been said that if power of XWatts is dissipated, then a max current of ZAmp will flow, but that is in normal operation, not fault condition.
In fault condition, the manufacturer expects the battery to be able to supply 30Amp without taking the battery outside its specifications

Again it is common for people to do this (hedge the power dissipation), and that is their choice, but for me, I would NEVER give that advice to others.

Not being a git here, and sorry if I was sharp with my comments, I am somewhat distracted at the moment.

Hope that is clear, and happy to explain further, or try from a differ rent perspective.

 

[bombastinator]

Indeed they share common functions, but are still dissimilar when it comes down to it.
A joule thief will sit there soaking all it can from the battery at a very low level, then pulse what it can out.
A boost converter will not sit there at low level, it will raise the current drain on the battery in order to achieve the target output level.

It is a difference, and TBH your post shows you have gained an understanding of electronics that most never get near.

I assume you’re being sarcastic. I just read the wiki s on joule thieves and such trying to resolve in my head (with incomplete success) the various reasons that it is impossible to use most mods at their rated wattage safely and effectively. It takes me 20 minutes to read a circuit diagram because I have to keep on referring back to charts on what the symbols mean and the physics of what they are supposed to do.

I’m very impressed that the Tesla 120 can actually be run at 120 in the real world though. Makes me want to buy one even if I think they look a bit silly personally. I’m starting to feel like an electronic cat lady with the number of mods I already have though.

 

[Oomee]

I assume you’re being sarcastic. I just read the wiki s on joule thieves and such trying to resolve in my head (with incomplete success) the various reasons that it is impossible to use most mods at their rated wattage safely and effectively. It takes me 20 minutes to read a circuit diagram because I have to keep on referring back to charts on what the symbols mean and the physics of what they are supposed to do.

I’m very impressed that the Tesla 120 can actually be run at 120 in the real world though. Makes me want to buy one even if I think they look a bit silly personally. I’m starting to feel like an electronic cat lady with the number of mods I already have though.

Edit: Have changed this post, as said I am juggling a few things here, and misread the above post.

Better I finish tasks at hand and return shortly...

 

[stols001]

You are going to either love or hate the looks, period. I have a silicone sleeve covering mine and it doesn't look as "interesting" as it does naked, but I'm glad I have it for the battery door... I have to say the Steampunk is the only non-DNA mod I own that even comes close to providing the kind of vape quality I get and TC is rather solid. I'd say for the prices it can be obtained now, it's rather hard to beat the vape quality quite honestly.

So if you bought it, I would actually ignore its looks and focus more on features and vape quality. I've been impressed with the vape though, although the fact I like its looks doesn't hurt anything, really. I'd have a hard time personally, purchasing the Wye, although I'd bet it's vape quality is probably equally good. I have been pretty impressed with teslacigs overall though.... They can build a quality vape, and the steampunk, being all metal, is pretty durable. I've dropped it, ran e-liquid down through it (accidentally) and it just never stops.

With that said, if you don't need a mod, you don't need this one particularly more than any other mod, per se. I'm sure it's not better than other things you have, but it is good, very good, IMO.

I hope I haven't cursed myself with the above^^^^^ but it's my go to mod for running new RTAs on to get a feel for how they are going to do. I liked it so much I got a backup, but the husband stole it.

Anna

 

[Topwater Elvis]

The point I am trying make is that the manufacturer states to use a minimum of 30 Amp battery. This would indicate that they have designed and built the device to not draw more than that, even if failed. In a catastrophic failure, the device SHOULD have fuses/ptc that will open the circuit if the current exceeds that.

I understand what has been said that if power of XWatts is dissipated, then a max current of ZAmp will flow, but that is in normal operation, not fault condition.
In fault condition, the manufacturer expects the battery to be able to supply 30Amp without taking the battery outside its specifications

Again it is common for people to do this (hedge the power dissipation), and that is their choice, but for me, I would NEVER give that advice to others.

Not being a git here, and sorry if I was sharp with my comments, I am somewhat distracted at the moment.

Hope that is clear, and happy to explain further, or try from a differ rent perspective.

I was making no attempt at calling your experience or knowledge into question, I hope my comments weren't interpreted that way.

My point is/was, Tesla designed a device with reasonable watt limits per cell, added a safety factor of setting a very reasonable battery voltage cutoff which reduces battery amp demand on top of the normal built in safety features all decent power devices have.
I think I get your concerns, if all safety features fail and everything goes catastrophically wrong all at once, IMO it wouldn't make any difference what cell you were using.
That scenario is extremely rare, no more common than any other battery powered device known.

I'm sure you're aware of the dozens of 2 cell power devices capable of 200+ watts, also the manufactures that recommend cells that simply do not exist, ie. 35a 18650 cells.
Including the few of these 200w devices that have low, low voltage cutoffs / 2.67v ~ 2.84ish v, and those with a reputation of poor QC and do include a very few with sketchy safety records. Many of which simply cannot do what the manufactures claim. Most if actually capable of their claims would lead people to believe the cells will be supporting 100+w each...
The OP isn't using one of those.

I feel sure you have read & understand mooch's contributions to the vaping community, I dare say the majority would consider his input to be both accurate & safe.
As safe as using cells that were never designed or intended for end consumer use or retail sales can possibly be.

An abundance of caution is always sound advice especially in the new members section.

Using 2 name brand authentic 15/20a CDR cells bought from a reputable source in a decent regulated power device at 80w or less would be considered by most to both be safe & reasonable.

 

[Oomee]

I assume you’re being sarcastic. I just read the wiki s on joule thieves and such trying to resolve in my head (with incomplete success) the various reasons that it is impossible to use most mods at their rated wattage safely and effectively. It takes me 20 minutes to read a circuit diagram because I have to keep on referring back to charts on what the symbols mean and the physics of what they are supposed to do.

I’m very impressed that the Tesla 120 can actually be run at 120 in the real world though. Makes me want to buy one even if I think they look a bit silly personally. I’m starting to feel like an electronic cat lady with the number of mods I already have though.

I am certainly not being sarcastic, I was trying to be encouraging and genuine.
No one knows all when they start off, and someone who takes their time to understand the symbols and their function in a cct is well on their way!

I was making no attempt at calling your experience or knowledge into question, I hope my comments weren't interpreted that way.

My point is/was, Tesla designed a device with reasonable watt limits per cell, added a safety factor of setting a very reasonable battery voltage cutoff which reduces battery amp demand on top of the normal built in safety features all decent power devices have.
I think I get your concerns, if all safety features fail and everything goes catastrophically wrong all at once, IMO it wouldn't make any difference what cell you were using.
That scenario is extremely rare, no more common than any other battery powered device known.

I'm sure you're aware of the dozens of 2 cell power devices capable of 200+ watts, also the manufactures that recommend cells that simply do not exist, ie. 35a 18650 cells.
Including the few of these 200w devices that have low, low voltage cutoffs / 2.67v ~ 2.84ish v, and those with a reputation of poor QC and do include a very few with sketchy safety records. Many of which simply cannot do what the manufactures claim. Most if actually capable of their claims would lead people to believe the cells will be supporting 100+w each...
The OP isn't using one of those.

I feel sure you have read & understand mooch's contributions to the vaping community, I dare say the majority would consider his input to be both accurate & safe.
As safe as using cells that were never designed or intended for end consumer use or retail sales can possibly be.

An abundance of caution is always sound advice especially in the new members section.

Using 2 name brand authentic 15/20a CDR cells bought from a reputable source in a decent regulated power device at 80w or less would be considered by most to both be safe & reasonable.

I take no offence and never for minute thought anything was called out.

All electronics are designed and built to a specification, from each component upwards to the device as a whole. That specification is everything, if parts are used below that spec then all bets are off.
In the case of batteries as in this case, it is the worst thing I can think of that an under spec battery is used.
This is like replacing a fuse with some tinfoil and being surprised when a fire is caused.

There is no excuse and no case that a battery below spec should be used.

I also think it is rather strange that Mooch is being brought up again and again.
From what I have seen of his work he is ALWAYS accurate to the numbers, no compromise.

Shoot him a pm and ask him about the safety of using batteries that are below the spec of the device, specifically about liability.
Ask him if he will go on record and publicly state it is OK to use under specification batteries.

If someone takes your advice and their house burns down, who will be to blame?

The manufacturer states 30Amp battery, they expect that, and all safety features are designed with that battery spec in mind.

Edit to say: This is now going back and forward, I have stated all I can, and in good faith and to my knowledge. Be safe people, stick to the guidelines.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Could be I was wrong, it appears you haven't read what Mooch wrote, he specifically covers the topic of using less than the power devices maximum watt output with cells of a lower CDR but higher capacity.

Clipped from the link I provided earlier in the thread.

" If you know you will not be exceeding a particular wattage that is less than the maximum then you can use that wattage in the equation instead. This often means you're able to use a higher capacity battery like the HG2 or 30Q instead of a high current rated, but lower capacity, battery like the VTC4 or HB6. It's worth doing the math to find out. "
* *Well worth the time to read in its entirety ---> Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum <--- *

I respect & support mooch's opinions & appreciate what he does for the vaping community.
I don't need to PM him, one of my companies test pallets of cases of the same cells we use, intended only for use in sensitive applications that fall well within the manufactures stated capabilities.
I employ 13 people with qualifications that are at least equal to Mooch.
The only reason I have need for that number is because almost constantly at least one frequently two or three are tied up as 'experts' in their field participating in various technical or legal actions.

 

[stols001]

I think this situation is somewhat similar to the situation with buying batteries, where, at least from IMRbatteries.com, they throw in a warning/legal covering of butts "These are not intended for use in personal vaporizing equipment."

They know full well that their cells are being used in that application, they just don't want a lawsuit, hence the blanket "warning" which certainly would seem to me (I am not a lawyer but my sister is) to be enough to cover them in case of any "exploding battery" lawsuit.

Since, to the best of my knowledge, teslacigs is a British company, it would make sense for them (legally) to state that their vaporizer shouldn't be used without 30 A cells, since that would cover them from any incidents of attempted "vape" at highest wattages by a user who is knowingly or unknowingly vaping their "product" with under-powered cells while attempting to reach maximum wattages, which would stress the batteries and their mod, especially over a long period of time.

That actually makes me like Teslacigs more. Smart. Because if you do use their recommended "specs" and vape higher wattages that is going to be significantly safer (in aggregate) than trying to do that on a 10 A rewrapped or otherwise not so good cell.

I don't vape over 10 watts on my Steampunk, and the cells I use while not being to "spec" are not going to get stressed and I will have longer run time than if I took their recommendation.

With that said, if you want to sue Teslacigs, you are going to have to do it with exploding 30A cells or better. So, for a novice, it's a good recommendation, as you can switch out batteries a LOT easier than dealing with a catastrophic mod failure, and if you do not read the recommended advice and THEN want to go crying to a lawyer about a failure to know what you are doing, the company is protected from stupid.

Like I said, it just makes me like Teslacigs more.

Anna

 

[Jack Daniels]

*delete

 

[Jack Daniels]

If you mean purchasing, then I'd guess yes. IDK about the battery boxes, they're slightly different with each vendor. I have never received a "single" battery box with my batteries, they just come with a double box, but I use IMRbatteries.com, so some of the other approved vendors might do it that way.

IDK if some battery makers are so extraordinarily responsible that they'd want to make sure you got "dual" cells from the same batch or something so they're better off married or what. I suppose such awesomeness in the universe could exist?

I've never been asked about dual or single but for the most part I buy my batteries in even numbers. Can't really be of help there.... I would suggest if you are pairing your batteries you keep them married and keep track of it somehow akin to a wedding ring (or draw some odd symbol on there in permanent marker if you are not pro-marriage) and keep them together, charge them together, let them do everything together until the day they die.

I'm starting to feel this post is actually beginning to sound anti-marriage (between humans) so I will ah, stop there.

Anna

So there if I choose "Dual" battery I'll receive just two batteries, not some weird kinky version of the battery where they can't leave without each other, right?

 

[stols001]

Actually, I'd say that's a vendor question. Some batteries are sold as a pack for other applications. I would email them and check, honestly, because you might get some kinky wrapped set of batteries that you'd have to take apart, possibly, so I'd probably just ask them. If you can buy multiple "single" batteries, I'd guess, it's just a GUESS that maybe they sell them in some connected fashion that you'd have to deal with if it arrived.

Anna

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Where are you planning on buying them?
I don't recall seeing a dual battery option when purchasing, only a quantity selection / box where you select a number of the cells you want.

 

[Jack Daniels]

I would email them and check, honestly, because you might get some kinky wrapped set of batteries that you'd have to take apart, possibly, so I'd probably just ask them.

You're right, I'll just ask them, instead of sitting and guessing

Where are you planning on buying them?

Vape Club co uk
They have option to buy "Single" or "Dual" for almost every battery.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Boys and girls, thanks for the information, but I still don't know what to order
I saw a few 30A rated batteries, but they are 1500mah (too little juice) and honestly I don't even think that they are really 30A since in every source I read different information.

Is Sony VTC5A appropriate for 80W vaping on the Tesla Nano or I have to pick something else. I really rely only on your advices. I have never have 18650, so I know nothing about nothing.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

I'm not familiar with the UK & I don't recall them being on a trusted source list.

Both quantity box and single / dual option function independently.
If you select dual & 1 in quantity box 2 cells are put into the cart, select dual & quantity 2, 4 cells in cart.
Select single & enter 2 in quantity box 2 in cart.
So either select dual or quantity 2, I guess.
Clear as mud...

May want to check with other UK members to be sure you order from a reliable source of authentic cells.

 

[bombastinator]

So there if I choose "Dual" battery I'll receive just two batteries, not some weird kinky version of the battery where they can't leave without each other, right?

Pretty sure

 

[BrotherBob]

Can you please give me an advice which battery is appropriate

Welcome and glad you joined.
I have provided a little more information which might help choosing/evaluating batteries.
Might like to read:
18650 Battery Buying Guide for Vapor Users – Wake and Vape Blog
Index | E-Cigarette Forum
Battery Safety: Will You Marry Me? - Mt Baker Vapor
http://ecigarettereviewed.com/e-cig-charging-safety
Vaping 101: Battery Safety
7 Best Practices to Keep Your Charge

 

[KenD]

If you are talking about single battery setups vs. dual battery ones, then a dual battery setup will offer either higher specs (if it's running in parallel mode, which most of them do if I understand things correctly) or if in series mode (using one battery after the other) the same specs as it uses/drains one battery after another.

Most regulated mods run in parallel mode I think, meaning you will be combining the specs of both batteries, so you will be able to draw higher wattage and the batteries will drain together, fall together, and share runtime together. So, you are getting the ability to run higher wattages without danger.

A single battery mod is just that: single. So your specs are your specs, for one battery, period.

I hope I'm saying all this correctly, but if not, someone will arrive to correct me, I'm quite sure.

Anna

The overwhelming majority of dual-battery regulated mods are in series, not parallel. In series, the voltage is doubled so boost circuitry usually isn't needed, making the chip somewhat more efficient. Other than that, there's little real-life difference between parallel and series setups. And no, series mods do not drain the batteries one after another. Sorry, I don't want to sound rude, but you really shouldn't give advice or provide information based on guessing.

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[stols001]

Fair enough. Thanks for the correction.

Anna

 

[Baditude]

Is Sony VTC5A appropriate for 80W vaping on the Tesla Nano or I have to pick something else. I really rely only on your advices. I have never have 18650, so I know nothing about nothing.

When choosing an 18650 battery for a regulated mod, make the choices based on the watt setting that you will be vaping at. Just because you have a 80 watt regulated mod does not mean that you will vape at 80 watts in most cases. If you generally vape at, say 40 watts, then any decent 15 - 20 amp battery will do.

In the interests of keeping things simple:

If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, your good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts assuming the mod cuts off when the batteries reach 3.4 volts.

20W-45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15/20 amp CDR
Sony 18659VTC6 3000mAh 15/20 amp CDR
​

20W-60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR
LG 18650HE2 2500 mah 20 amp CDR
Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR
Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR
Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR
AW 18650 3000 mah 20 amp CDR
​

30W - 75W:

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR
​

60W - 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR
LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR
LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR
​

When choosing a battery for an unregulated, mechanical mod then the choice is based upon the amp draw of the coil and amp limit of the battery using Ohm's Law.