Test Results: Fake Samsung 25R’s, Samsung 30Q’s, and LG HG2’s!

[Mooch]

My conclusions here and in the test report are just my personal opinion based on my previous experiences and these test results.

I received twelve cells, four of each type mentioned above, shipped from Battery Junction for testing at the beginning of last week, ordered by a third party. In my opinion all twelve cells are fakes or low grade/damaged cells.

Test report: Battery Junction Bad Cells Test Report.pdf

This post is not to slam Battery Junction but to alert buyers of these cells (and others) that there are a LOT of fakes out there and that the situation will get worse...much worse...as these cells become harder and harder to find. The huge demand from EV manufacturers and the Covid-19 related manufacturing slowdowns have made it very profitable for the scumbags who create fake cells.

While it shocked me that Battery Junction was selling all these fakes they immediately stopped selling these three cell types and sent out refund offers via email as soon as I told them about my test results. I wish that they had a more robust incoming shipment testing program in place but I thank Battery Junction for their quick action in this matter.

Battery Junction needed several days to do their internal investigation (checking if other cell types were also fakes, talking to their supplier, etc.) and then we were going to talk again earlier this week. They have not yet called though.

I had hoped to include an update on their investigation here but I don’t want to wait any longer to post about these bad cells. The (unknown) supplier who sold these to Battery Junction has probably sold thousands more of these to other vendors, if not tens of thousands or more.

For information on these bad cells please read the test report. I cannot say if these cells are dangerous but since they perform a lot worse and run hotter than the cells they pretend to be they certainly can’t be considered as safe to use as genuine cells in good condition.

An important lesson for vendors to take away from this...never assume your supplier is only selling you genuine cells! They might have been fooled or, hopefully this never happens, they know they are selling fakes. Always spot check every shipment.

This does not mean just pulling out a few cells and glancing at the wraps. You need to VERY carefully examine them and at least perform capacity checks. Testing DC internal resistance and/or discharge testing is a great way to help spot fakes too.

I hope to get an update from Battery Junction soon and will post here when I do.

PLEASE READ THESE BULLET POINTS FIRST IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION...

• I do not know if any other cells that Battery Junction was selling were also fakes or bad cells. You will have to check with Battery Junction.
• I do not know when these bad cells started being sold. If you have 25R’s, 30Q’s, or HG2’s purchased from Battery Junction you will have to contact them for more information (www.battery.junction.com).
• I do not know what Battery Junction is doing now to check for fakes or bad cells.
• I cannot tell if your cells are fake or not just from photos. Please do not send me photos asking me to authenticate your cells. If you feel they might be fake then contact the vendor you bought them from.
• The date/batch codes for these fakes and bad cells can be genuine codes that were copied! Genuine cells with these same codes might exist.
• Do not assume that cells you have with the same codes as these cells are fakes/bad. Check the test report for the ways I checked authenticity.
• Do not assume that 25R, 30Q, or HG2 cells with different codes are genuine! There are fakes with many different codes out there.
• These are not the only fake 25R’s, 30Q’s, and HG2’s out there! Others will look slightly different and/or have different date/batch codes. Do not try to use the codes from these cells as the only way you check for fakes or bad cells.
• Other cells, like Murata VTC’s, Molicels, and other popular cells are also being widely faked. Your best defense is to buy from known, trusted vendors or (for Molicels) from authorized distributors.
• If you are a vendor or wholesaler you should have a comprehensive testing program in place for checking every cell shipment you receive. It doesn’t matter how long you have been using a supplier or how much you trust them. The fakes are getting better and better and any supplier could be fooled at some point by a good fake.

 

[CAAB]

Wow, that's troubling to hear. I am going to stick with an authorized Molicel distributor where possible.

It sounds like it might get to a point where a vaper will need to invest in some testing equipment to be safe.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

It sounds like it might get to a point where a vaper will need to invest in some testing equipment to be safe.

Nah, that's why we have @Mooch

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

While it shocked me that Battery Junction was selling all these fakes they immediately stopped selling these three cell types and sent out refund offers via email as soon as I told them about my test results. I wish that they had a more robust incoming shipment testing program in place but I thank Battery Junction for their quick action in this matter.

Someone on ECF alerted me to this last week, and that they got a "recall" notice and refund from BJ. But to be honest, this just tells me that they cannot be trusted to purchase authentic inventory. So I personally have removed them from my bookmarked battery vendors.

They aren't the only game in town, we have other options.

 

[CAAB]

Nah, that's why we have @Mooch

My concern is that if fakes become pervasive enough, then even "trusted" vendors might let fakes slip through. In which case I imagine you'd almost have to time your purchases to when Mooch is running tests with specific cells from specific vendors to minimize risk.

Like Mooch mentions though, ideally vendors will be able to self-police to catch these problems before batteries go out to the consumer.

In my case, I am happy with Molicel batteries and there are authorized distributors who can sell direct to consumer.

 

[Superuser187]

It's good that there is mooch to expose those fakes but what worries me is that to be sure 100% the cell we got is not fake we must learn and do at least few basic tests on our own

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

In my case, I am happy with Molicel batteries and there are authorized distributors who can sell direct to consumer.

You may have a good idea here - stick with Molicel and only buy from their authorized dealers.

But how do we verify that a specific retailer is an authorized Molicel dealer? I went to Molicel.com and didn't see a list of authorized dealers or distributors.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Well I found a post by Mooch on reddit where he said that Molicel uses NPE as their authorized distributor (wholesale). On NPE's website, for USA retailers, Liionwholesale.com is the only authorized retailer. NPE G.D.P. partners in U.S.A. – N-Power Energy Limited

 

[CAAB]

On NPE's website, for USA retailers, Liionwholesale.com is the only authorized retailer.

That's my understanding. I ordered from them not too long ago. Was surprised to get a decent 18650 flashlight with my order. Have been happy with them.

 

[CAAB]

It's good that there is mooch to expose those fakes but what worries me is that to be sure 100% the cell we got is not fake we must learn and do at least few basic tests on our own

A lot of chargers can do a reliable capacity test. But DC internal resistance, temperature, and voltage sag are harder to test. The equipment I was pricing out was several hundred dollars.

I don't know how reliable AC internal resistance tests are but those kinds of testers are cheaper.

 

[Coyote628]

Well I found a post by Mooch on reddit where he said that Molicel uses NPE as their authorized distributor (wholesale). On NPE's website, for USA retailers, Liionwholesale.com is the only authorized retailer. NPE G.D.P. partners in U.S.A. – N-Power Energy Limited

Bought my molicels from liionwholesale. Prompt delivery and decent enough prices. Happy vaping.

 

[Javichu]

First of all thanks @Mooch for your great work for the vaping community

After reading your post and the pdf included in it i was wondering,for us layman folks in the technical side of vaping (mostly me) what would be the dangers of using one of these fake batteries?

Only saw some mentions about battery temperature,which i guess is a bad thing if taken to the extreme.

Thanks again for all your hard work

Salutations from sunny Spain.

 

[Superuser187]

First of all thanks @Mooch for your great work for the vaping community

After reading your post and the pdf included in it i was wondering,for us layman folks in the technical side of vaping (mostly me) what would be the dangers of using one of these fake batteries?

Only saw some mentions about battery temperature,which i guess is a bad thing if taken to the extreme.

Thanks again for all your hard work

Salutations from sunny Spain.

The danger is that your face will become like your profile picture for real I guess

 

[mimöschen]

The danger is that your face will become like your profile picture for real I guess

That's nothing a good sip of boiling water couldn't solve

 

[Javichu]

That's nothing a good sip of boiling water couldn't solve

I am impressed,i see we have another film connoisseur among our ranks,well done

 

[CAAB]

After reading your post and the pdf included in it i was wondering,for us layman folks in the technical side of vaping (mostly me) what would be the dangers of using one of these fake batteries?

I saw this YouTube video where Mooch addresses this topic. If you skip to 9 minutes in, that's where he starts addressing it. Basically with these fake cells you don't know what the true CDR is, so even if your build is well under the CDR printed on the battery wrap, you might actually be going over the true CDR of the fake cell by an order of magnitude. So your perceived safety factor might actually be non-existent, and the battery might vent, thinking it is being short-circuited, for example.

I think the overall message is that it's not worth the risk of using these batteries when there are more reputable options available. And personally, if I were somewhere in the world that reputable options weren't available, I would be reevaluating whether I should even be vaping.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I saw this YouTube video where Mooch addresses this topic. If you skip to 9 minutes in, that's where he starts addressing it. Basically with these fake cells you don't know what the true CDR is, so even if your build is well under the CDR printed on the battery wrap, you might actually be going over the true CDR of the fake cell by an order of magnitude. So your perceived safety factor might actually be non-existent, and the battery might vent, thinking it is being short-circuited, for example.

I think the overall message is that it's not worth the risk of using these batteries when there are more reputable options available. And personally, if I were somewhere in the world that reputable options weren't available, I would be reevaluating whether I should even be vaping.

I agree. You simply have no idea what on earth is under that wrap and inside the can. It's not even safe for a tootle puffer to use a fake.

 

[Mooch]

First of all thanks @Mooch for your great work for the vaping community

After reading your post and the pdf included in it i was wondering,for us layman folks in the technical side of vaping (mostly me) what would be the dangers of using one of these fake batteries?

Only saw some mentions about battery temperature,which i guess is a bad thing if taken to the extreme.

Thanks again for all your hard work

Salutations from sunny Spain.

Thanks!
As others have mentioned, we often have no idea what the fakes are and even if we do we don’t know how old they are or how badly they might have been stored. We can’t quantify the risks so we should just never use a fake or low grade cell.

IMO the risk of a fake cell going into thermal runaway is very low but not zero. So even if only one cell might ever do this I am forced to err on the side of caution, not knowing who has that one cell, and to recommend never using a fake or low grade cell.

 

[Hawise]

I agree. You simply have no idea what on earth is under that wrap and inside the can. It's not even safe for a tootle puffer to use a fake.

Yup. It's not just that we don't know what the actual CDR might be, but there could also be manufacturing defects or damage to the cell that make it unsafe in any context.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Yup. It's not just that we don't know what the actual CDR might be, but there could also be manufacturing defects or damage to the cell that make it unsafe in any context.

And unfortunately you can even say the same for rewraps to a certain degree. Of course, I'd trust a reputable rewrap before I even think about using a fake OEM