The Anti-Smoker View on E-Cigs

[ladyraj]

Passages gleaned from a group of policy makers on the e-cigarette in response to the Payne interview:

Excepts:
"He does go on about the "customer experience".
Of course he knows that without the nicotine there
would be about as many customers experiencing e-cigs
as would experience smoking lettuce. What he's really
doing here is avoiding admitting that it's all
about the pharmacology: inhaled drug gets to the
brain within seconds. I can see why he doesn't
mention that; it makes his company look like a
drug company, engineering a drug delivery device
to sell to addicted customers. "Customer experience"
is little more than code for that, like "impact"."

"The big picture is we don't need new devices
to shrink the pipeline. We don't need new research.
We know everything we need to know right now to
dramatically and effectively reduce consumption.
It's called policy change. The key is doing it."

My Remarks: Of course they are referring to the pipeline of new, current, and old smokers. Can you feel the heat radiating from the animosity towards e-cigs?

 

[TropicalBob]

That pretty much says it all and why we can't argue effectively with anyone who begins with the belief, "screw alternatives."

It's quit or die. Take your pick.

That is so very wrong-headed and we can only hope the FDA sees a harm reduction middle road that we can travel to healthier lives off cigarettes.

 

[Jim Davis]

That pretty much says it all and why we can't argue effectively with anyone who begins with the belief, "screw alternatives."

It's quit or die. Take your pick.

That is so very wrong-headed and we can only hope the FDA sees a harm reduction middle road that we can travel to healthier lives off cigarettes.

Well Bob.........
The more I get into these things, the more I feel frustrated. My idea on the whole ball of wax is, I'm continuing to fight, but I'm not worried about the outcome any more. If all goes against us, I'll still be vaping one way or another. Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'm here to stay.

 

[jim420]

Passages gleaned from a group of policy makers on the e-cigarette in response to the Payne interview:

Excepts:
"He does go on about the "customer experience".
Of course he knows that without the nicotine there
would be about as many customers experiencing e-cigs
as would experience smoking lettuce. What he's really
doing here is avoiding admitting that it's all
about the pharmacology: inhaled drug gets to the
brain within seconds. I can see why he doesn't
mention that; it makes his company look like a
drug company, engineering a drug delivery device
to sell to addicted customers. "Customer experience"
is little more than code for that, like "impact"."

"The big picture is we don't need new devices
to shrink the pipeline. We don't need new research.
We know everything we need to know right now to
dramatically and effectively reduce consumption.
It's called policy change. The key is doing it."

My Remarks: Of course they are referring to the pipeline of new, current, and old smokers. Can you feel the heat radiating from the animosity towards e-cigs?

Heeeey. I smoked lettuce (one pack that I couldn't finish). There was a brand in the 1970's that came out called "Triumph" that was exactly that--no tar, no nicotine, dried lettuce. They were HORRIBLE!

 

[puffpuff]

We all cheer here for the "harm reduction" aspects of e-cigarettes, We especially highlight the switch from tobacco cigarettes to e-cigarettes as being a most notable improvement.

But then the anti-smokers say, "But what if people try this because they perceive it as less dangerous than real 'smoking?"

So, instead of arguing, let's look at exactly that.

Let's imagine a time 40 years from now.....
What if vaping turned wildly popular, and adults over 18 who never smoked or considered smoking took up vaping as a habit. It's like the 50's, but with vapor. And it's very rare to see a real smoker. Kids wouldn't even consider a cigarette, for want of the 'real thing' -- an e-cigarette. Analogs had just simply become 'passe', but e-cigarette usage is about 50% amongst adults.

And what if in that reality, the lung cancer rate had dropped by 60% from current figures? or 80%? Would these people still be against e-cigarettes?

Obviously, we don't know that's how it would all turn out, but it's as fair a question as, "What if a teenager gets his hands on one?!?!?!?"

 

[TropicalBob]

Jim: I, too, bought a pack of lettuce cigarettes back then. They were made in a factory where SmokingClam and I live -- in Punta Gorda, Fla.

And you are right. They were horrible. They deserved to be a quaint smoking historical footnote.

 

[taz3cat]

We all cheer here for the "harm reduction" aspects of e-cigarettes, We especially highlight the switch from tobacco cigarettes to e-cigarettes as being a most notable improvement.

But then the anti-smokers say, "But what if people try this because they perceive it as less dangerous than real 'smoking?"

So, instead of arguing, let's look at exactly that.

Let's imagine a time 40 years from now.....
What if vaping turned wildly popular, and adults over 18 who never smoked or considered smoking took up vaping as a habit. It's like the 50's, but with vapor. And it's very rare to see a real smoker. Kids wouldn't even consider a cigarette, for want of the 'real thing' -- an e-cigarette. Analogs had just simply become 'passe', but e-cigarette usage is about 50% amongst adults.

And what if in that reality, the lung cancer rate had dropped by 60% from current figures? or 80%? Would these people still be against e-cigarettes?

Obviously, we don't know that's how it would all turn out, but it's as fair a question as, "What if a teenager gets his hands on one?!?!?!?"

Teenages get anything they want, whether we want them to have it or not. They use NRTs too.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Well Bob.........
The more I get into these things, the more I feel frustrated. My idea on the whole ball of wax is, I'm continuing to fight, but I'm not worried about the outcome any more. If all goes against us, I'll still be vaping one way or another. Where there's a will, there's a way, and I'm here to stay.

Jim - Right there with you. If we consume ourselves with what could be, it is easy to just throw our hands up and give in to the control that others want to have over us. Even when they try to rip my sign from my hands, I will still have an ecig dangling from my lips and a bottle of juice in my pocket.

 

[Nelson]

Teenages get anything they want, whether we want them to have it or not. They use NRTs too.

So true...I started smoking when I was 15 and I use to get my older friends to buy me nicorette to chew on during school.

 

[planetofthevapes]

LETTUCE CIGARETTES! Seriously? Wierd...

I smoked a french fry once, it didn't stay lit...but it left a nice french fry flavor in my mouth for a few hours...LOL...I should patent it as a "mcDonalds Le Whif." LOL.

 

[violetvoo]

We all cheer here for the "harm reduction" aspects of e-cigarettes, We especially highlight the switch from tobacco cigarettes to e-cigarettes as being a most notable improvement.

But then the anti-smokers say, "But what if people try this because they perceive it as less dangerous than real 'smoking?"

So, instead of arguing, let's look at exactly that.

Let's imagine a time 40 years from now.....
What if vaping turned wildly popular, and adults over 18 who never smoked or considered smoking took up vaping as a habit. It's like the 50's, but with vapor. And it's very rare to see a real smoker. Kids wouldn't even consider a cigarette, for want of the 'real thing' -- an e-cigarette. Analogs had just simply become 'passe', but e-cigarette usage is about 50% amongst adults.

And what if in that reality, the lung cancer rate had dropped by 60% from current figures? or 80%? Would these people still be against e-cigarettes?

Obviously, we don't know that's how it would all turn out, but it's as fair a question as, "What if a teenager gets his hands on one?!?!?!?"

If a teenager is going to smoke they are going to smoke! I'd much rather they vape than smoke a cigarette. That argument is made by everyone that tries to control what others do!! You are not going to stop teenagers from smoking or vaping by outlawing e-cigs and thinking that is ridiculous!! Ecigs are too expensive for most kids anyway.

 

[Khandurian]

I stumbled on this one. If you really trully want to try a lettuce cigarette, they still sell them. You have to go to your local mall, go into their smoke shop where they carry every brand made in the world, and you can get them.

I know atleast locally they have them where I live in Brevard County Florida!

 

[strayling]

LETTUCE CIGARETTES! Seriously? Wierd...

I smoked a french fry once, it didn't stay lit...but it left a nice french fry flavor in my mouth for a few hours...LOL...I should patent it as a "mcDonalds Le Whif." LOL.

They tried all sorts. There was a synthetic tobacco substitute made from cellulose IIRC, called "NSM" for "New Smoking Material" which appeared in the UK in the late 70s. They actually weren't bad, but were only on sale for about 6 months before they mysteriously vanished again.

 

[OutWest]

Teenages get anything they want, whether we want them to have it or not. They use NRTs too.

Yep. Started smoking when I was 17 and out of high school. More importantly, though, I smoked weed when I was 15. So, one could argue that marijuana was my gateway drug for cigarettes. Quick, we'd better make that illegal, think of the children! Oh wait, it already is... and for some kids it's easier to get ahold of than cigs are.

 

[davidb]

Anyone who smokes sweet dreams, their mocha or vanilla, they ALSO make a herbal cig made without tobacco. Its not lettuce I dont think, but dear god, I tried one about 4 years ago, and that was it. The rest were used as jokes for friends. The only hard part was not having them notice when I gave one to a friend that they not notice it looked different. Worst creation after smokeless cigs.

 

[Chorizo]

I started smoking when as a twelve year old girl. I got them any way I could. There was a creepy guy next door to one of my twelve year old friend that rented out the basement of a house. That creepy dude bought us cigarettes on a regular basis.
And he was CREEPY.
That was probably dangerous, looking back, that was stupid.
But yeah, I got them, regardless of the creepiness of the figure or situation associated with getting them.

 

[robbiehatfield]

I think it's pointless to argue the point of whether e-cigs are completely harmless or not. Much better to argue the point that they're just something that we enjoy and that we're all seeing almost immediate improvements in health when dropping the analogs for them. Bungie jumping has a following, and this activety can end lives quick. Fast cars have a huge following in a world with 55 to 65mph speed limits? Why? People like driving fast. Alcohol has a huge following and who doesn't know someone who's fallen to alcoholism in their family? All these things remain because people enjoy them. E-cigs are no different, and it will take some REAL junk science to 'prove' that secondhand vapor hurts anyone.

Robbie

 

[Rorschach]

Didn't Liggett actually create a cigarette with selenium which potentially neutralized carcinogens in the 1970s called the XA Project?

**EDIT** Err....correction. Palladium.

 

[StudioKraft]

Didn't Liggett actually create a cigarette with selenium which potentially neutralized carcinogens in the 1970s called the XA Project?

**EDIT** Err....correction. Palladium.

Sounds like they had a familiar problem:

NOVA Online | Search for a Safe Cigarette | "Safer" Cigarettes: A History

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Sans-Serif]Liggett faced a marketing problem if it pursued the XA Project cigarettes. How could the company market the benefits of the XA Project cigarettes without making health claims that would subject it to government scrutiny?[/FONT]

 

[Nicfits]

We smoked grape vines as kids, even tried cedar bark, but about coughed up a lung.
When I was younger, I would try anything once, twice if I liked it.