The Anti-Smoker View on E-Cigs

[sherid]

Sounds like they had a familiar problem:

NOVA Online | Search for a Safe Cigarette | "Safer" Cigarettes: A History

From your link, the Accord looks very much like the Janty Stick.


Philip Morris is testing its own high-tech cigarette called Accord, which has been described as a cigarette encased in a kazoo-shaped lighter. Consumers buy a $40 kit that includes a battery charger, a puff-activated lighter that holds the cigarette, and a carton of special cigarettes. To smoke the cigarettes, a smoker sucks on the kazoolike box. A microchip senses the puff and sends a burst of heat to the cigarette. The process gives the smoker one drag and does not create ashes or smoke. An illuminated display shows the number of puffs remaining, and the batteries must be recharged after every pack. It's unclear whether smokers will find the low-smoke and -ash benefits desirable enough to justify learning an entirely new smoking ritual. Although Philip Morris doesn't make health claims about Accord, the company in 1998 told the Society of Toxicology that Accord generated 83 percent fewer toxins than a regular cigarette.

For $40, the Accord smoker gets a battery charger, heating device, and carton of special cigarettes.

 

[sherid]

For anyone who believes that somehow BT got left behind with the invention of e cigarettes, watch this video.
Accord Philip Morris New Device Puff Activated Lighter 1997.mp4

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

From your link, the Accord looks very much like the Janty Stick.


Philip Morris is testing its own high-tech cigarette called Accord, which has been described as a cigarette encased in a kazoo-shaped lighter. Consumers buy a $40 kit that includes a battery charger, a puff-activated lighter that holds the cigarette, and a carton of special cigarettes. To smoke the cigarettes, a smoker sucks on the kazoolike box. A microchip senses the puff and sends a burst of heat to the cigarette. The process gives the smoker one drag and does not create ashes or smoke. An illuminated display shows the number of puffs remaining, and the batteries must be recharged after every pack. It's unclear whether smokers will find the low-smoke and -ash benefits desirable enough to justify learning an entirely new smoking ritual. Although Philip Morris doesn't make health claims about Accord, the company in 1998 told the Society of Toxicology that Accord generated 83 percent fewer toxins than a regular cigarette.

.

It does look like the stick, but it's got more in common with the Iolite inhaler. It's a vaporizer of tobacco (you have to buy PM's special cigarettes to put in it).

Iolite's inhaler is the same....you put herbs or tobacco or compressed pellets in the vaporization chamber, and the unit heats the product quickly to turn any water contained in the stuff to vapor. This can be used with our juices - I wonder if PM's device could be?

I agree with you, Sherid, in that PM can't possibly be quiescent in this, and share in your suspicions that somewhere there's a link between them and an e-cig company....somewhere....I just wish I could confirm.

 

[TropicalBob]

Philip Morris has been working on new nicotine delivery systems for some time. The beauty of this particular unit is that it still uses tobacco. So did the Heatbar. PM is not in the liquid-making business, but it does have some tobacco lying around. Market tests of this have never been successful, however.

So PM moved on to patent a true nicotine mist inhaler, the Aria. It looks a bit like the iInhale, or even the JantyStick. And you can read some projections about it and see a photo in this pdf: http://www.forces.org/writers/kjono/pdf/tobacco_control_and_fda_regulation.pdf

The first paragraph, written five years ago, seems particularly applicable to today's Senate actions. The scenario set out in that paragraph is being played out before our eyes.

 

[Christina]

The first paragraph, written five years ago, seems particularly applicable to today's Senate actions. The scenario set out in that paragraph is being played out before our eyes.

TBob, I believe you have nailed it. So not only is our freedom of choice being taken from us, nicotine addicts are being used as unwitting pawns? That's the way I see it.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

 

[sherid]

It does look like the stick, but it's got more in common with the Iolite inhaler. It's a vaporizer of tobacco (you have to buy PM's special cigarettes to put in it).

Iolite's inhaler is the same....you put herbs or tobacco or compressed pellets in the vaporization chamber, and the unit heats the product quickly to turn any water contained in the stuff to vapor. This can be used with our juices - I wonder if PM's device could be?

I agree with you, Sherid, in that PM can't possibly be quiescent in this, and share in your suspicions that somewhere there's a link between them and an e-cig company....somewhere....I just wish I could confirm.

This model was developed in the late 90's. Since BT spent over 800 million developing such protocols, it only makes since that they continued perfecting what they started. The public did not embrace either the Accord or the Heatbar, perhaps because the public did not have an incentive to buy something so weird looking at that time. Smoking bans in the late 90's were few and far between, so there was not the incentive then. My guess is simple. I believe that BT went underground with research to perfect the failed product they had dumped 800 million developing. I believe that BT's scientists resurfaced in China and became Ruyan or some other unknown company. Then, when the time was right, the e cig emerged, and got us where we are today: a smaller version and different design (save the Stick and other such models) of the Accord/Heatbar that heats liquid instead of tobacco. Look further and hopefully someone can explain who Smoke Intech/Rauchless is. At the end of the day, I believe that we will find the connection between the development of e cigs in China and BT. The product, if that is so, would probably be allowed since it came well before the 20007 cut off point for new tobacco products.

 

[Data4]

If it were truly a case of trading a harmful activity for a harmless one with the same results, there wouldn't be a problem. The issue is about control. One group's (anti-smokers who know better than you or anyone else) desire to control another group's (people who believe in the responsible exercise of freedom when it doesn't deprive anyone else of their life, liberty, property, or happiness) behavior because of an opinion. That's all it boils down to, in my own honest, yet cynical opinion.

Pardon my language, but social conditioning/engineering really is a mean mother****er. THAT is what we're fighting against.

-D4

 

[sherid]

Pardon my language, but social conditioning/engineering really is a mean mother****er. THAT is what we're fighting against.

-D4

AMEN I refuse to be conditioned or to associate myself with any person or group who is already conditioned to avoid accidental denormalization. If we do not find a way to fight back, we will never know what hit us with the next round of "change" Last week I came across an article from a tobacco control spokesman in Australia, "treat obesity like the new smoking" It discussed how successful social conditioning against smokers had been and why we must now use those same methods in the "war" against obesity. We see a growing movement to also employ those methods against drinking, even casually: "even one drink is too much for women as it may lead to certain cancers" I am not obese, do not drink to excess, and have substituted most of my smoking with vaping. However, I want to vomit each time I see this crap. It makes me want to grab a carton of smokes, two Big Macs and a large fry, and a gallon of Bicardi and head off to an isolated cabin in the woods far from anyone who allows this junk to continue.

 

[JustMeAgain]

It makes me want to grab a carton of smokes, two Big Macs and a large fry, and a gallon of Bicardi and head off to an isolated cabin in the woods far from anyone who allows this junk to continue.

Can I come, too? Pleaseeee?

Thank for pointing me to this discussion, Sherid. Ok, I read the posts and watched the video (which was awful...sounded like the guy who narrated the sex videos we watched in Jr. High 8-o ugh)

Ok, so here's what I still want to know...This seem the same ecigs except for the juice factor, but I don't quite understand if they were ready to market and PM pulled them because people didn't like them, and would they have had to undergo some sort of further testing -aka approval - before they were actually sold. Or is the difference that the FDA is gaining more control but were not in the picture back then as far as tobacco products? I assume the ATF were the ones who had authority over tobacco (if FDA gains control over tobacco, will the ATF be changing their name to AF? lol). But either way, wasn't a product that was virtually the same as ecigs already tested when the Accord was developed? Or is the difference that they contained actual tobacco as opposed to juice? If that's the case, isn't that a bit like saying you can have ground coffee but you can't buy brewed coffee because then it's in a different form? Or that any 'extract' from an already approved consumable product would need to be re-approved?

I'm not sure if I'm getting my question across very clearly, but if PM decided to whip the Accord back out, what would happen then?

Wouldn't the world be a different place if people weren't so selfish? Imagine what it would be like if people just did the right thing instead of always putting their own interests first. I really don't know how these people can sleep at night.

Sorry that this is so rambling, but I just can't understand why what's ok for BT isn't ok for someone else.

 

[sherid]

Can I come, too? Pleaseeee?

I'm not sure if I'm getting my question across very clearly, but if PM decided to whip the Accord back out, what would happen then?

Wouldn't the world be a different place if people weren't so selfish? Imagine what it would be like if people just did the right thing instead of always putting their own interests first. I really don't know how these people can sleep at night.

Sorry that this is so rambling, but I just can't understand why what's ok for BT isn't ok for someone else.

You can come as long as you are not an anti-smoker. I am stressed not only because of the acutal tyrants at ASH but also because I hear some of the same language of the denormalization campaign on this forum: smokers as stinky, yellow-fingered, low class citizens. I find that amazingly hypocritcal that those among us who were smokers themselves only a day or month ago have now become e cigarette elites mimicking the attitudes of the "enemy" As for that BT/e-cig connection, no one has yet made the actual link. I don't really see how it could be missed, but there is no proof yet. Examine the discussion of Smoke Innotec/Rauchless and see what you think. I am especially intrigued by the release date of that product: July, 2009. That will be after the FDA legislation clears the hurdles. What intrigues me most is that part of that legislation says that no new products developed after 2007 can be introduced. Clearly, if products like the Accord/Heatbar which were developed long before that can be proven to simply have progressed to the current version of that same product: think Rauchless, Stick, Ruyan, etc. then the FDA legislation would not cover those products. If Rauchless were actually Ruyan or Janty or whatever with a different trade name, then they would take over the e cig market. For the thousandth time, BT is not going to throw away a billion dollar investment in smokeless cigarettes and be overtaken by a small upstart Chinese company. If it were even possible that the Chinese were able to develop these products without the protocol of the Accord/Heatbar, then it is naive to believe that they would not then start immediate lawsuits against such companies for stealing their idea.

 

[Angela]

... I hear some of the same language of the denormalization campaign on this forum: smokers as stinky, yellow-fingered, low class citizens. I find that amazingly hypocritcal that those among us who were smokers themselves only a day or month ago have now become e cigarette elites mimicking the attitudes of the "enemy"

 

[sherid]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-claiming-introducing-worlds-first-e-cig.html

 

[DisMan]

That pretty much says it all and why we can't argue effectively with anyone who begins with the belief, "screw alternatives."

It's quit or die. Take your pick.

That is so very wrong-headed and we can only hope the FDA sees a harm reduction middle road that we can travel to healthier lives off cigarettes.

Well, that's why we have Democrats and Republicans. There's only two views in this world, and neither of them are reasonable.

In the real world, people see a problem and they start addressing that problem. There are wise people on both sides of the spectrum.

When a forest is so full that the canopy starts killing that which is beneath it, fools will rush in with chainsaws to cut down a lot of the trees. Fools will also get in the way of the fools with chainsaws to "save the trees". Then the battle ensues between two fools.

And the wise man comes in, states "Why don't we just trim back some of the canopy, slowly, over the next few years?"

But the fools won't listen...because the fool is decisive.

I believe that everybody around me, myself included, are fools for a good amount of our lives.

 

[TropicalBob]

Nicely said, and apt.

 

[tescela]

From your link, the Accord looks very much like the Janty Stick.


Philip Morris is testing its own high-tech cigarette called Accord, which has been described as a cigarette encased in a kazoo-shaped lighter. Consumers buy a $40 kit that includes a battery charger, a puff-activated lighter that holds the cigarette, and a carton of special cigarettes. To smoke the cigarettes, a smoker sucks on the kazoolike box. A microchip senses the puff and sends a burst of heat to the cigarette. The process gives the smoker one drag and does not create ashes or smoke. An illuminated display shows the number of puffs remaining, and the batteries must be recharged after every pack. It's unclear whether smokers will find the low-smoke and -ash benefits desirable enough to justify learning an entirely new smoking ritual. Although Philip Morris doesn't make health claims about Accord, the company in 1998 told the Society of Toxicology that Accord generated 83 percent fewer toxins than a regular cigarette.

For $40, the Accord smoker gets a battery charger, heating device, and carton of special cigarettes.

I owned an Accord "smoking system" many years ago, and here is my firsthand "review" of the product:

I give Philip Morris points for trying, but the result was TERRIBLE. I could go into more detail, but that is the bottom line.

Comparatively speaking, RJR's (now Reynold American) Eclipse product was a much better product offering.

After Eclipse, there was a drought in smoking innovation until the e-cigarette was developed.

E-cigs, of course, are -- in my humble opinion -- an enormous leap forward in harm reduction technology.

 

[tescela]

I second this. Vapers turning into anti-smokers is outrageous.

 

[bonniegirl]

As some may know, I am an RN, started smoking at age 14, became a nurse at age 23. Worked 20 years as a nurse, sneaking my cigarettes from my cancer patients, by smoking behind the garbage dumpster. I am an oncology nurse. Have treated more lung Ca patients who never smoked than those that did. Became published in AJN- worldwide nursing journal- area of expertise? Treating the cancer patient for pain and chemo with a history of drug or alcohol abuse. In short...{and this is not a resume LOL}*bear with her, there is a point to all this* First heart attack at age 43- quit or die the Dr says, she smokes, not for lack of trying, lack of ability to get off the drug nicotine. 2 heart attacks and a triple bypass later, eventual total disability, she continues to smoke....until she discovers vaping. My dr is a happy guy, I am a happy girl, my family are happy people. Until our society will learn to address the true diagnostic reality of the reality of addiction, we will remain in the same sub category as junkies and whinos. My Dr will not refer patients to the pv's, "not enough research" he says. Ok do you want the obituary page instead to read on the troilet? There is research done in Australia, UK and in Germany. All my research finds are non-hazardous substances vaporized into lungs. I want to be heard by the FDA and have written letters to senators, congressmen, world health organization and even our president. I am not a second class citizen because of my addiction.....are fat people who are addicted to cupcakes treated as second hand citizens? NO- we give them gastric bypass and if unisured and the cupcake eating causes them to be at risk of death, taxpayers pay for it. Need to calm myself-get riled up and heart races like it did when I smoked 2 packs a day, I now vape low- 2 carts a day:} Keep up the good fight!

 

[cutiemax]

Quote:
are fat people who are addicted to cupcakes treated as second hand citizens? NO- we give them gastric bypass and if unisured and the cupcake eating causes them to be at risk of death, taxpayers pay for it. Need to calm myself-get riled up and heart races like it did when I smoked 2 packs a day, I now vape low- 2 carts a day:} Keep up the good fight!

You go Bonniegirl! You were on point with everything you said

 

[tescela]

My Dr will not refer patients to the pv's, "not enough research" he says. Ok do you want the obituary page instead to read on the troilet? There is research done in Australia, UK and in Germany.

Unfortunately, the laziness you've encountered with your doctor is all too common in the U.S.

Most U.S. physicians don't deserve to earn $50k a year, much less the $200-250k a year that they take in.

If U.S. physicians were held to the same results-based performance standards prevalent in the corporate world, most would be fired in under a year.

Doctors only continuing "education" is provided by Big Pharma, so their answer to everything is to dispense pills. In the corporate world, that would represent a conflict of interest, and would be a violation of most companies' code of ethics...for which they would be fired.

All my research finds are non-hazardous substances vaporized into lungs. I want to be heard by the FDA and have written letters to senators, congressmen, world health organization and even our president. I am not a second class citizen because of my addiction.....are fat people who are addicted to cupcakes treated as second hand citizens? NO- we give them gastric bypass and if unisured and the cupcake eating causes them to be at risk of death, taxpayers pay for it. Need to calm myself-get riled up and heart races like it did when I smoked 2 packs a day, I now vape low- 2 carts a day:} Keep up the good fight!

Thanks to your personal initiative, you've done more to improve your health than all of the healthcare providers combined, because so many doctors have lost their way and put money before the welfare of their patients.

Congratulations for what you've accomplished, bonniegirl!

Oh, and if your doctor won't educate herself/himself, then "fire" her/him and find a new physician that actually wants to help their patients.

 

[BullyBoy]

Passages gleaned from a group of policy makers on the e-cigarette in response to the Payne interview:

Define "policy makers". Are they elected officials or just whiny idiots whose voices are louder than ours?