The cloud chasing fad

[AndriaD]

oh.. now that you mention it, I might have to try that. I do get some wheezing from all the vaping (since going sub ohms I've had to lower my nic % but I vape a lot more overall)
And whenever I get a seasonal flu maybe once or twice a year, it turns into an asthma thing and I have to stop vaping or at least cut back drastically.
I'll try the PG route and see if it helps!

Yeah at one point I was trying to lower my PG, thinking higher VG would help with the dehydration (though it really wouldn't; they're both hygroscopic, they grab water from the mucus membranes very readily); I managed to get to 35% VG, and one night I woke up with an asthma attack so bad, I almost couldn't inhale enough even to use my Ventolin. That scared the bejeebers out of me, and I went straight back to 75% PG the next day, but it took nearly a week to get rid of that suffocating feeling.

Andria

 

[iz2sick]

On my way to work this morning, I'm sitting at a red light and there's this guy next to me, not that young either, probably like 30 or so, and he's blowing massive vapor out his window and sunroof haha. I looked over at him and he was blowing his clouds, then he would look around at other cars to see if anyone was watching lol. He knew I was looking, so you could tell he was quickly trying to drip more juice on his unit, then blow more and more. It was hilarious.

He put on a good show for 30 seconds. I got a good laugh out of it.

I have a friend like that. I keep telling him to cut it out, but he won't haha. It's not a self-esteem thing for him. He gets a kick out of the reactions from people. But he really enjoys catching the attention of other vapers because there aren't many here in Michigan yet.

 

[Ryedan]

Well quite a few of the DIY folks that I respect use it and say it helps moisten the vape reducing that dryness in the thoat, smooths out the flavors a bit as far as I recall.
You should use a 0.9% sodium chloride solution with no additives, and up to 10% of overall mix.
I finally got some without going the DIY route: a sterile wash USP NaCi from GaugeGearAftercare.com on ebay.
Its a lot cheaper to make it yourself though.

Thank you

 

[beckdg]

Yeah at one point I was trying to lower my PG, thinking higher VG would help with the dehydration (though it really wouldn't; they're both hygroscopic, they grab water from the mucus membranes very readily); I managed to get to 35% VG, and one night I woke up with an asthma attack so bad, I almost couldn't inhale enough even to use my Ventolin. That scared the bejeebers out of me, and I went straight back to 75% PG the next day, but it took nearly a week to get rid of that suffocating feeling.

Andria

I wonder... stay with me here.

We're no longer smoking but we can't deny that we're still subjecting our respiratory systems to foreign substances. There's a transition period before we learn to tolerate it by either technique and/or the body adjusting.

There's also the affects of heightened awareness to consider. These would be highly magnified for someone who suffers from a common affliction such as asthma.

There's a possibility your sensitivity to vg might be a culmination of a couple factors.

You may have taken to pg easier due to already having adjusted to inhaling it via its use as a carrier/delivery substance for asthma medications/inhalers earlier in life. Knowing and depending on those medications to alleviate bronchial constriction and allow you to breathe would create a mental state that would allow you to never notice the difficulties of transitioning to inhaling pg in the first place. Struggling to breathe until after the treatment was administered would further mask any struggles adjusting to inhaling pg also. If you think about... you feel like you can't breathe... hit the inhaler once or twice... BOOM... relief!!!

So you may have been pre - adjusted to pg to a certain degree. (The harsher of the 2 substances.)

And adjusting to it in the first place would likely have been easier since your mind knew that taking the inhaler allowed you to breathe.

And Vg not being a part of that earlier adjustment would be introduced to your system by way of choice instead of dire (at least seemingly) medical necessity. A choice easier to dismiss and since it's currently harder to adjust to with no prior adjustment, would feel as if you're sensitive.

My wife is also asthmatic and too struggled with Vg for some time. Now she prefers a little more Vg in most flavors for its sweetness and smoothness.

My curiosity is piqued.

 

[AndriaD]

I wonder... stay with me here.

We're no longer smoking but we can't deny that we're still subjecting our respiratory systems to foreign substances. There's a transition period before we learn to tolerate it by either technique and/or the body adjusting.

There's also the affects of heightened awareness to consider. These would be highly magnified for someone who suffers from a common affliction such as asthma.

There's a possibility your sensitivity to vg might be a culmination of a couple factors.

You may have taken to pg easier due to already having adjusted to inhaling it via its use as a carrier/delivery substance for asthma medications/inhalers earlier in life. Knowing and depending on those medications to alleviate bronchial constriction and allow you to breathe would create a mental state that would allow you to never notice the difficulties of transitioning to inhaling pg in the first place. Struggling to breathe until after the treatment was administered would further mask any struggles adjusting to inhaling pg also. If you think about... you feel like you can't breathe... hit the inhaler once or twice... BOOM... relief!!!

So you may have been pre - adjusted to pg to a certain degree. (The harsher of the 2 substances.)

And adjusting to it in the first place would likely have been easier since your mind knew that taking the inhaler allowed you to breathe.

And Vg not being a part of that earlier adjustment would be introduced to your system by way of choice instead of dire (at least seemingly) medical necessity. A choice easier to dismiss and since it's currently harder to adjust to with no prior adjustment, would feel as if you're sensitive.

My wife is also asthmatic and too struggled with Vg for some time. Now she prefers a little more Vg in most flavors for its sweetness and smoothness.

My curiosity is piqued.

I look at it via the nail polish/paint metaphor. If you use a thin nail polish, it takes a lot of coats to build up to the point that it's opaque. If you use a thick polish, then one coat is usually enough, and it stays wet/tacky for a long time before hardening, and it's very thick; you can apply a second coat only long after the first one has dried, because applying fresh wet polish will soften the underlying thick coat, and you will end up with a VERY thick coat of polish.

People with asthma already have compromised airways, and what happens in an asthma attack is that the smooth muscles (the involuntary ones) go into spasm in the airways, constricting the airways, and the only thing that causes them to open again is to inhale the topical bronchodilator, which works on smooth muscles to relax them (I had to learn all that about my medication's effect on smooth muscles when I was pregnant and preparing for labor/delivery -- and as it happened, my smooth muscles did not work correctly during that event, and I required a caesarian).

When you inhale something thin, then it takes a very long time to build up to a point where it actually narrows the airways, and over that time, your lungs' natural action is to clear foreign material, so it never builds up to a point that it causes problems. However when you inhale thick material, it narrows the airways very quickly, more quickly than compromised lungs (compromised either by asthma or smoking or both) can clear it away, so that if an asthma attack strikes (normal for sleeping actually, due to shallower breathing), there is then very little room in those airways for air, or even to get medication into them. I can actually feel this build-up, thanks to that hyper-awareness you mentioned, and it feels AWFUL, like there's something that desperately needs coughing up, but will not move.

Thinning VG with water *will* work to prevent this thick, airway-clogging buildup, however it negatively affects taste and vapor production a great deal more than thinning with PG.

Andria

 

[beckdg]

I look at it via the nail polish/paint metaphor. If you use a thin nail polish, it takes a lot of coats to build up to the point that it's opaque. If you use a thick polish, then one coat is usually enough, and it stays wet/tacky for a long time before hardening, and it's very thick; you can apply a second coat only long after the first one has dried, because applying fresh wet polish will soften the underlying thick coat, and you will end up with a VERY thick coat of polish.

People with asthma already have compromised airways, and what happens in an asthma attack is that the smooth muscles (the involuntary ones) go into spasm in the airways, constricting the airways, and the only thing that causes them to open again is to inhale the topical bronchodilator, which works on smooth muscles to relax them (I had to learn all that about my medication's effect on smooth muscles when I was pregnant and preparing for labor/delivery -- and as it happened, my smooth muscles did not work correctly during that event, and I required a caesarian).

When you inhale something thin, then it takes a very long time to build up to a point where it actually narrows the airways, and over that time, your lungs' natural action is to clear foreign material, so it never builds up to a point that it causes problems. However when you inhale thick material, it narrows the airways very quickly, more quickly than compromised lungs (compromised either by asthma or smoking or both) can clear it away, so that if an asthma attack strikes (normal for sleeping actually, due to shallower breathing), there is then very little room in those airways for air, or even to get medication into them. I can actually feel this build-up, thanks to that hyper-awareness you mentioned, and it feels AWFUL, like there's something that desperately needs coughing up, but will not move.

Thinning VG with water *will* work to prevent this thick, airway-clogging buildup, however it negatively affects taste and vapor production a great deal more than thinning with PG.

Andria

I too suffer from bronchio constriction. Though mine is a result of allergies. May or may not help you but what works for me is to gargle very well before bed time.

Either way I'm sure you have or will work it out. Best of luck Andria.

 

[minimalsaint]

On my way to work this morning, I'm sitting at a red light and there's this guy next to me, not that young either, probably like 30 or so, and he's blowing massive vapor out his window and sunroof haha. I looked over at him and he was blowing his clouds, then he would look around at other cars to see if anyone was watching lol. He knew I was looking, so you could tell he was quickly trying to drip more juice on his unit, then blow more and more. It was hilarious.

He put on a good show for 30 seconds. I got a good laugh out of it.

I'll admit to a little bit of shenanigans myself- on occasion I enjoy vaping like mad in the car with the windows up, then coming to a stoplight and dropping all of the windows at once, Cheech and Chong style LOL.
Yeah, I'm 35 with a childish streak. What can I say?

 

[SthrnCelt]

So many good responses to this thread I doubt my contribution will be anything new. But, I've noticed personally that PG and me don't get along well at all. At least not when vaping. Also, over time and having blown a small fortune on all manners of cartos, tanks, drip atomizers...you name it...I finally got my first RDA and discovered if I make my juice with VG only, I get 3 distinct benefits. 1. I don't have the negative reaction to PG. 2. I don't get frustrated over a poorly functioning atomizer, and 3. I don't have to wait for the mail to bring me a new set of anything. So the VG and RDA combination naturally is producing more vapor. But that's just the effect. How big a cloud I produce is up to me because with low nic and straight VG, I can lung hit till my battery dies. But as for why there are so many people going after bigger and bigger clouds...well I blame Space Invaders. Oh yeah...harken back to that time when even little Podunk towns had an arcade. To have your initials up with the top score on Space Invaders meant something to you. It was a claim to fame. And while this accolade would not get you into a better college or did anything for you on a resume, it was...within your own realm of friends...your own personal Coup d'état against your sworn enemies....your best friends! This triumph was of no significance compared to most everything else in the known universe, but for the time your initials occupied the HIGH SCORE of the game when you and your friends were gathered at the arcade, it was as triumphant a thing as any in history. This same thing is played out in other areas where there is a small but fervent group of aficionados. For example, PC Gamers....with their huge processors, video cards in SLI, 64GB of RAM, SSD you name it. Or how about CB'ers? You know, CB radios? You may not realize that the CB culture still exists. And maybe you do or don't know that the FCC will only allow a non-licensed person to have a CB which operates on a certain frequency range or that they can only transmit at 4 watts of RF. Still, many break the law and have radios that go into 10 meter ham bands, and use amplifiers to putt out who knows how many watts. I know a guy with an amp so large he has to keep it in his trunk, right beside the 4 extra batteries he has. Under the hood he retrofitted to use 2 alternators which usually would go on a Kenworth. Point is...as long as there are ways for average Joes to "be the best" then there will always be average Joes building them bigger, louder, faster. Either that or spending rolls of quarters on a game just so they can enter 3 letters into the High Score.

 

[ukeman]

I look at it via the nail polish/paint metaphor. If you use a thin nail polish, it takes a lot of coats to build up to the point that it's opaque. If you use a thick polish, then one coat is usually enough, and it stays wet/tacky for a long time before hardening, and it's very thick; you can apply a second coat only long after the first one has dried, because applying fresh wet polish will soften the underlying thick coat, and you will end up with a VERY thick coat of polish.

People with asthma already have compromised airways, and what happens in an asthma attack is that the smooth muscles (the involuntary ones) go into spasm in the airways, constricting the airways, and the only thing that causes them to open again is to inhale the topical bronchodilator, which works on smooth muscles to relax them (I had to learn all that about my medication's effect on smooth muscles when I was pregnant and preparing for labor/delivery -- and as it happened, my smooth muscles did not work correctly during that event, and I required a caesarian).

When you inhale something thin, then it takes a very long time to build up to a point where it actually narrows the airways, and over that time, your lungs' natural action is to clear foreign material, so it never builds up to a point that it causes problems. However when you inhale thick material, it narrows the airways very quickly, more quickly than compromised lungs (compromised either by asthma or smoking or both) can clear it away, so that if an asthma attack strikes (normal for sleeping actually, due to shallower breathing), there is then very little room in those airways for air, or even to get medication into them. I can actually feel this build-up, thanks to that hyper-awareness you mentioned, and it feels AWFUL, like there's something that desperately needs coughing up, but will not move.

Thinning VG with water *will* work to prevent this thick, airway-clogging buildup, however it negatively affects taste and vapor production a great deal more than thinning with PG.

Andria

I appreciate your description of the asthma and lungs however not sure about your last sentence about DW affecting taste.

 

[AndriaD]

I appreciate your description of the asthma and lungs however not sure about your last sentence about DW affecting taste.

Well, it doesn't change the taste or anything, it just makes it lighter. PG will do that also -- but, PG affects the vapor less than water does. When I've diluted with water, I notice that the vapor is distinctly thinner and lighter and *less*. Whereas mixing in the same amount of PG, the vapor is a *little* thinner, but not so noticeably; it feels more satisfying. It may be that mixing PG also boosts the TH, so there is more satisfaction, whereas water will just make the TH less as well, which is completely unsatisfying to me. I have to walk a razor edge, because if the TH is TOO intense, that will bring on an asthma attack every bit as badly as thick vapor does, but if there isn't a pretty substantial TH, then I'm just not satisfied at all -- there *MUST* be TH or it just doesn't work for me. Which is probably another excellent reason I strongly prefer PG to VG; VG tastes ok, but there's no tingle, no burn, and no, cinnamon isn't the same at all, and certainly not menthol, which to me is for toothpaste, mouthwash, cough drops, and muscle rub -- and dentists' offices (ick!).

Andria

 

[beckdg]

It's simple economics. Cloud chasers spend more money. They're hobbyists. They buy more juice, more mods, batteries and especially RDA's. Vaping is a lot more than smoking cessation nowadays.

Not necessarily.

6 oz of vg is cheaper than 10ml of most juice. Everything that's worth a darn for cloud chasing usually gets cloned and sold at fastech for.pennies on the dollar.

Color coordinating provarii and ibtanked, kanger clearos and kayfuns for every flavor combo and day of the week are far from necessary for cloud chasing.

Kanthal and cotton is cheaper for a life time supply than a years worth of proprietary heads.

All stainless steel from drip tip to switch is hard to break.

Basically just cloud chasing can easily be a lot cheaper than cessation vaping. It's up to the individual.

 

[sandersj80]

When I first started vaping, my only concern was looking for an alternative to smoking. As a 18 year smoker, I felt that it was something that needed to be done. So I started vaping and I was using an evod with a spinner battery. It helped to get me off the cigs but later I discovered that I could have a hobby and enjoy the vape too. So I got into building coils and using mech mods which I find to be very enjoyable. Now I agree with some of you that say that kids who walk into the stores and think that they are vaping for the style or whatever. But I think of it as an enjoyable hobby with benefits. One more thing, I also agree that some kid vapers act like real douchebags especially when they haven't been raised to respect other people.

 

[badwolf91]

Or maybe it's simply the fact that some cloud chasers like it? ... maybe they find it more satisfying?

Honestly, who cares how people vape? Stick that brown nose somewhere else and focus on the way YOU vape. I know a lot of people that are more satisfied by cloud chasing. It may be the experience for them, who knows.. maybe some of you "switched to save money" but that may not be the case for everybody. Maybe money wasn't a huge problem even while they were smoking?

Just a thought, but why bash something with not much reason? If you don't like cloud chasing, that's fine, don't do it. But that doesn't give anybody here the right to piss on and look down on someone else for doing something they enjoy. That's the worst part of this "vaping community", is trying to tell people what they can and cannot vape. If it keeps them off cigarettes, then great, cloud chase all day.

I don't think anybody is just bashing cloud chasers, rather saying it is somewhat obnoxious compared to the normal vapor and can give vapors a bad name if done in public un respectfully, or basically done in public at all around non vapors. What is happening is people are blowing massive clouds at shops and even in public thinking they look cool and are basically pissing people off and giving people a reason to hate on vaping. I think most of us could care less if you blow such a cloud that you cannot even see your TV in your own room and at your own means but the fact that it is bothering other vapors here obviously means that it is something that should be done with more care. I also don't think anyone here is saying "we hate cloud chasers" many just don't want to be stuck in a shop where its only 50% air 50% vapor or even worse a non vapor in a public area like noted. so I just say to cloud chasers please keep your mind about you, do it intelligently in an environment where it wont bother anybody and they don't have to be incapacitated by your cloud, and if your doing that... blow your brains out get all the cloud you can .. safely.

I was going to post something a long time ago saying that cloud chasers should try to limit themselves in public places just to not add to bad publicity in the vapor area as we already have too much but it seems the idea is there but there are many cloud chasers who have the "hey look at me" attitude and want to do it in public. If cloud chasing is all you do, I think you could simply take smaller pulls in public to accommodate right? I have nothing against it and think its cool you can do so many unique things with vaporizers making them so fun and adaptable so don't take me wrong I am not hating on the way you vape, you have the right to vape to your pleasure, the way you enjoy it and I would defend that right.. just keep it to your self or try not to let it infringe on others if you feel me?
If there is a competition and everyone there is into it that's cool, I am just saying there are people that are going to look down on vaping if they see someone do this at a mall and they have to walk through the cloud for 5 min and its going to add fuel to the fire. I really don't want to not be able to vape publically (cloud chasing may not have a impact if things go the way they are turning now that will be the future, but I think we can change it) and I think most people will not just take a pull and blow it right out in someone's face. It just obviously is bothering some people, and im sure it is just those few obnoxious ones who do think they are cool for getting a big vape. And if it is bothering some vapors it is probably bothering some non vapors more, I hope not but.. probably.
I think/hope this is the general idea of vapors as I think we all should be standing up for eachothers right to vape in the way they please, just as long as were not bothering others in an obnoxious way, I also understand some people get bothered way to easy and that's gonna happen but I just wanted to voice my thoughts on this as it is becoming quite popular or at least quite noticed by the "hey look at me" crowd. Just do it kindly respecting everyone else as if I vape in public I make sure nobody is super close and going to get hit by a big pull (I just use a kayfun but they can get somewhat large) and there isn't younge children going to be getting any impression that its cool as I don't want that either. Vaping should still be looked at as a safer alternative to cigarettes and if you pick up vaping just to go chasing clouds (see it even sounds kind of cool) hopefully you pick up a low or zero nic at least and do your research regarding safety. Even though the gov't thinks that vaping is a gateway to real cigs that is 100% wrong, at least 90% of vapors are post smokers and there is a small group who pick up vaping itself (someone I know did who HATED smoking with a passion just because they enjoyed the flavor and its relaxing to do once and a while at low nic, not even daily as we well know vaping doesn't seem quite as addictive as cigs either)

also as stated above regarding people under 18 vaping, if they were going to pick up a pack of smokes anyway I would rather see them vape. that's why I am up and down on the 18 law as you don't want to see people picking up an addiction for no reason, even if it is not that addictive and they control it but again that is their right to choose and id rather them be able to get vaping hardware than cigs easier, at least I think we still have the right to choose for ourselves in this country.. in most situations... or did we loose that yet?

Also, hello fellow Iowan you must live within 20-40 miles of me I haven't seen to many Iowans on here.. sorry if I went on too long. I am known for always writing a story every time I start typing so sorry if I bored anyone

 

[ukeman]

liked your post badwolf, and want to add that Vaping as we know it is for the most part, a nicotene delivery system.
When you combine an addiction with a hobby, look out! You're asking for trouble
Funny but true...

You're gonna get anomalies, and while its normal and fine to debate or discuss, controversies are going to come up.
Lets just hope it all turns out best for us vapists.

 

[foster67]

I started vaping to quit smoking anyway id rather be chasing rainbows then clouds you get better rewards