The cloud chasing fad

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

I'm not reading through this entire topic as let's be honest, this is run of the mill, typical ECF forum afair. The old guard, those who hold true to their affinity of the e-cigarette, and the aversion of traditional tobacco, as if the correlation is ecig-> quit. While that is revolutionary and tremendously healthier in theory are those who oppose afraid of innovation, and dare I say, the new guard?

I'll admit, those who vape and have never smoked bug me a bit. Outside of that, cloud chasing is fun, an interesting and productive (okay, I use that loosely; however I've learned far more about electricity and it's relevant theories and implication... Something I wouldn't of if I kept smoking)

Things change. Innovation takes hold. Do you also Harbor a similar disdain for people who prefer more turbo, stronger engines, or optimal modifications to exceed industry standard performance with their car?

I just don't get why everybody thinks this is such a hot button issue. Sure, the foolish and uneducated make us look bad, but they usually fall to the wayside - and I believe people are becoming increasingly aware that what they're doing can (literally) blow up in their face. I may be rambling, but fear not, innovation is healthy, and cloud chasing is hurting none of you. I'd also like to say that since I got into mechanical mods, which lead to dripping, and eventually evolved into crazy low awesomely fun coil builds, I forgot all about

Wait for it

Nicotine.

I'd much rather be fixated on the density, flavor, and overall composition of my clouds than getting my fix - don't have one anymore!

Have a nice day.

Excellent post.
The concern I think is timing.

We are neck deep in a battle to protect our ability to continue vaping in some fashion that's similar to how we do it today.

To the "old guard" (appropriate term BTW) this means protecting something that literally saved our lives.
To the "new guard" (non-smokers) it is simply a hobby or sport or competition

This non-smoking new guard is exactly what the FDA regs say they are trying to prevent and therefore can be used as proof we need them.

To be clear I love a good cloud. But to loosely quote Miranda: "Anything we say (and do) can and will be used against us"
That's not opinion..... it's just the way it is with "tobacco" and it has been working for the last 40 yrs.

 

[Vapocalyptic]

Excellent post.
The concern I think is timing.

We are neck deep in a battle to protect our ability to continue vaping in some fashion that's similar to how we do it today.

To the "old guard" (appropriate term BTW) this means protecting something that literally saved our lives.
To the "new guard" (non-smokers) it is simply a hobby or sport or competition

This non-smoking new guard is exactly what the FDA regs say they are trying to prevent and therefore can be used as proof we need them.

To be clear I love a good cloud. But to loosely quote Miranda: "Anything we say (and do) can and will be used against us"
That's not opinion..... it's just the way it is with "tobacco" and it has been working for the last 40 yrs.

I appreciate the sentiment you believe in however I am not 100% sold on the fact that cloud chasing is really inhibiting the electronic cigarette. I think the attention is slowly but surely, like a drip from an old leaky faucet, being diverted from the important matters ie, pharma influence and profit loss, positive AND negative research (health, impact, side effects, etc etc) impending regulation, etc. Yeah the imploding tubes suck, but again, the wayside - plenty of people drive drunk, yet we do not condone driving, or drinking, just the two intertwined

The lesson being, we need to focus on the primary agenda and instead of incessant lambasting, we need to educate, and inform. That is far more important than debating it's impact.... Just my 2c, and truly believe I say this because I'm tired of this topic!

 

[exnihilo]

I just, yesterday, loaded up 100% VG no nic into a dual coil .45 ohm Magma and about drowned, lol! Felt like I was breathing under water for a while after the coughing stopped. Yay! My career ended before it even started.

Tapa-shutup

 

[DavidOH]

Mix in that the guy behind the counter at the 7000th new vape shop that just opened may have been making your Big Mac last week.
Knows little about the science behind what he's selling
And more importantly knows little about SELLING successfully.

So many times when in vape shops I see a "NEW" vapor come in to ask about vaping and the clerk immediately goes to "THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED"

When in reality the conversation should start with questions. LOTS of them.
What brought you in?
How did you hear about vaping?
ARE YOU A SMOKER? How much do you smoke? How do you smoke?
Have you tried an ecig? Which one? What did you like? What didn't you like?

SELLING IS NOT SOMETHING YOU DO TO SOMEONE ITS SOMETHING YOU DO WITH SOMEONE
Sell what YOU want and it's a transaction, sell what they NEED and you have a CUSTOMER.

The B/M I go to does ask those questions. I know because I've watch them. They point someone new to what I call the beginner display. The one with egos, spinners, protanks, aspires, etc. They discourage them from the display with the mechs, rebuildables, Provari, SVD, and other higher end stuff. They also explain everything they need to know about the setup they choose.
From filling to changing the head in the tank and yes care of the battery including cleaning the contacts. They will spend as much time as it takes to help someone get started. I wouldn't keep going there if they didn't.

Yes some of them are cloud chasing. But they are doing it safely. I use a mech and dripper at home. For out it's the XPV DNA30 with KFL. I get good vapor from my go out setup but I'm careful about how and where I vape. I'm just respectful of others. The vapor is harmless but it doesn't mean I should inflect it on others. If someone likes chasing clouds then go for it. Just learn to be safe and don't be obnoxious about it. Only time will tell us if it's a fad or not.

 

[WattWick]

I'm not reading through this entire topic as let's be honest, this is run of the mill, typical ECF forum afair. The old guard, those who hold true to their affinity of the e-cigarette, and the aversion of traditional tobacco, as if the correlation is ecig-> quit. While that is revolutionary and tremendously healthier in theory are those who oppose afraid of innovation, and dare I say, the new guard?

I'll admit, those who vape and have never smoked bug me a bit. Outside of that, cloud chasing is fun, an interesting and productive (okay, I use that loosely; however I've learned far more about electricity and it's relevant theories and implication... Something I wouldn't of if I kept smoking)

Things change. Innovation takes hold. Do you also Harbor a similar disdain for people who prefer more turbo, stronger engines, or optimal modifications to exceed industry standard performance with their car?

I just don't get why everybody thinks this is such a hot button issue. Sure, the foolish and uneducated make us look bad, but they usually fall to the wayside - and I believe people are becoming increasingly aware that what they're doing can (literally) blow up in their face. I may be rambling, but fear not, innovation is healthy, and cloud chasing is hurting none of you. I'd also like to say that since I got into mechanical mods, which lead to dripping, and eventually evolved into crazy low awesomely fun coil builds, I forgot all about

Wait for it

Nicotine.

I'd much rather be fixated on the density, flavor, and overall composition of my clouds than getting my fix - don't have one anymore!

Have a nice day.

Pushing the limits of batteries is not innovative. The only (arguable) innovation that has come from cloud chasing is higher powered, regulated (thus safer) mods. Which only helps blow bigger clouds and is quite insignificant to vaping as a whole.

Pointing out that some people try too hard is not synonymous with being afraid of innovation. I think we all want vaping to become easier and more accessible. That would be true innovation and of great benefit to the quit smoking aspect of vaping.

While some do it fairly safely... for your car analogy: What some people do is the equivalent of duct-taping rocket engines to ones car to make it go faster.

 

[Vapocalyptic]

Pushing the limits of batteries is not innovative. The only (arguable) innovation that has come from cloud chasing is higher powered, regulated (thus safer) mods. Which only helps blow bigger clouds and is quite insignificant to vaping as a whole.

Pointing out that some people try too hard is not synonymous with being afraid of innovation. I think we all want vaping to become easier and more accessible. That would be true innovation and of great benefit to the quit smoking aspect of vaping.

While some do it fairly safely... for your car analogy: What some people do is the equivalent of duct-taping rocket engines to ones car to make it go faster.

Like I said, not going through a topic that has been beat to death, but I think comparing a well built mech, dripper, and nicely built coil to a ce4 and ego battery is both innovative and imaginative. So is the higher wattage, regulated, and yes safer mod.

With that said, I am not advocating idiocy - of course a battery should not be pushed to its absolute limit and inherently I do not support that. However, I'd like to point out that those who are "taping rockets" actually have a degree of knowledge, at least some do - a fine wine connoisseur does not liken himself to cheap beer, as I do not to idiots.

But you can't sit their and say that a nicely built dual (or single, Tiger, twisted, braided, ribbon, diamond, sleeper, tricoil, sleeper coil, infinity, tin man... Whatever) coil with some tasty juice, on a well made mechanical mod, is not just innovative, but actually enjoyable.

 

[stevegmu]

It is the lowest tech form of vaping that exists; I just don't see the innovation...An eGo has more technology and innovation. Except for at a high end vape shop I visit twice a year, most mechs are PRC quality copies...

 

[dmetzcher]

It is the lowest tech form of vaping that exists; I just don't see the innovation...An eGo has more technology and innovation. Except for at a high end vape shop I visit twice a year, most mechs are PRC quality copies...

The innovation, I think, comes from the manufacturers trying to develop regulated (safer) devices that cloud chasers will want to use.

Regarding the quality of the mech mods, a lot of them are beautiful, and it's rather hard, based on what I've read, to tell the difference between them and the authentic mods. Hcigar and Infinite are just two companies that I've heard people rave about. I own mech mods made by both of them, and they're great. I've read that a lot of the mods on FastTech, however, are more cheaply constructed, but I've never purchased any from that web site.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EBates]

it's like F1, what's the point in going in circles at the fastest speed possible? it's ridiculous!

only, if we didn't have F1 (or auto racing in general) and these "stupid idiots", we'd probably still drive steam machines at around 20mph

Sub ohmers, cloud chasers pave the way of what the vape will be tomorrow, they take risks (and have fun doing it) so tomorrow we all can a quality, flavorful vape using appropriate and safe equipment.

They take what could have been a boring medecine and turn it into a hobby that brings people together, improve their own lives, technically, intellectually (wait, did you think it was easy to blow huge clouds?), socially, culturally

for some people, vaping is just a medication to stop smoking, I'm fine with that. For others, it's an opportunity to improve themselves, develop themselves into better beings.

Feel free to only look at the surface (blowing big clouds), negate all the rest and deem it ridiculous or stupid. But we don't need your judgment, just stick to what you like and leave people do what they want.

thank you

I agree totally with the theory that auto racing has improved the safety and performance of automobiles. The difference I see is that those race events are conducted within venues designed specifically for those types of event. Participants are very aware of the car's capabilities and dangers. Spectators are isolated from areas known to be dangerous.
Street racing on the other hand is very dangerous and highly illegal and does nothing but endanger the participants and the general public.
So cloud chasing in public at a restaurant or shopping mall, which way would you think it to be viewed?

 

[AndriaD]

Regarding the quality of the mech mods, a lot of them are beautiful, and it's rather hard, based on what I've read, to tell the difference between them and the authentic mods. Hcigar and Infinite are just two companies that I've heard people rave about. I own mech mods made by both of them, and they're great. I've read that a lot of the mods on FastTech, however, are more cheaply constructed, but I've never purchased any from that web site.

I did a bit of research on the one I ended up buying, before deciding on whether to go authentic or clone -- the authentic is the Electric Angel, whose name appealed to me because of an excellent urban fantasy series called "A Madness of Angels, or the Resurrection of Matthew Swift" -- in the book, "blue electric angels" reanimated him via a telephone, which I thought was a really interesting idea. However the authentic is ~$100, pretty steep for me, so I wanted to see if there were really any advantages to the authentic other than the cool name. The clone, usually called the "EA Mod clone" by EHPro, also is sometimes called a cool name -- the Fallen Angel.

What I discovered in all my reading and viewing of reviews of the two, is that a) the clone is actually better looking, and b) most reviewers seem to find the clone is actually a better-made device -- heavier, better contacts, better machining, softer-touch fire button. And although it can run ~$50 or more at some vendors, I found my Fallen Angel for $39.95 at LiteCigUSA.net, so I jumped on that. The only thing about it that I wish was different is that I wish there was even a slightly longer tube, to enable one to use a Kick with an 18650, but, considering that it's a rather petite device, that would probably make it exceedingly unwieldy. I *could* use a kick with an 18490/18500, but I find I prefer the form factor of using an 18350 with kick, making it the same length as using an 18490/18500 without kick. Just have to change the battery pretty often.

It may be a "clone," but it's a very well made clone, and not even *truly* a "clone," because it has some differences from the authentic in its appearance; I find it much better looking than the authentic.

Andria

 

[Damrin]

Is this the future of vaping now? Seems like so many people now are more interested in big time vapor, rather than using ecigs as an alternative to smoking and getting their nic fix.

It reminds me of when I was a kid and how we used to ride our bikes, or play hockey and basketball on the street. Nowadays, kids play with iPads, tablets, cell phones and high definition video games. And they wonder why the obesity rate is so high. Gee, I wonder.

It just goes to show how much technology has changed society as a whole. People do things just because it's the "in" thing to do.

There's cloud chasing contests now and "meets" where people go, to see who can blow the biggest cloud? Lol it's laughable.

I am in sales. I often tell my customers, "I can recommend a product to you that I like, but you have to use it." The best vape is the one you use and like!

 

[Tombie15]

Perhaps its the fact that I live in LA, and when I see someone vaping, 9 times out of 10, they are piloting sub-ohm builds in mechanical mods, and to the untrained eye, it would appear that cloud-chasing is synonymous with vaping, but It is my opinion that every time someone talks down on cloud chasing, or sub-ohming, or any other fringe vape-related activity with a danger-factor here on ECF that they are pushing away droves of people who could otherwise benefit from the wealth of information found here on these forums.

We know how effective the DARE program was in keeping children away from drugs, so why would the same style of scaremongering be any more effective within a grassroots community of adults built around a less-unhealthy nicotine alternative to cigarettes?
I guess my thesis here would be that I don't think condescending people for doing what they're going to do is an effective way of bolstering a community. Like it or not, people are going to build coils that stretch their batteries to their breaking points, and saying "don't do that" may not be a particularly effective way of mitigating damage on either a personal and communal level.

Call me a hedonist, but I find a giant cloud of warm, thick vapor far more fulfilling than a little puff from my kayfun, which still looks like a cloud compared to what my ego-style devices could put out.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

Like I said, not going through a topic that has been beat to death, but I think comparing a well built mech, dripper, and nicely built coil to a ce4 and ego battery is both innovative and imaginative. So is the higher wattage, regulated, and yes safer mod.

With that said, I am not advocating idiocy - of course a battery should not be pushed to its absolute limit and inherently I do not support that. However, I'd like to point out that those who are "taping rockets" actually have a degree of knowledge, at least some do - a fine wine connoisseur does not liken himself to cheap beer, as I do not to idiots.

But you can't sit their and say that a nicely built dual (or single, Tiger, twisted, braided, ribbon, diamond, sleeper, tricoil, sleeper coil, infinity, tin man... Whatever) coil with some tasty juice, on a well made mechanical mod, is not just innovative, but actually enjoyable.

I understand what you are saying except your use of innovation. It simply does not apply unless there is something significantly better or new. It can still be immaginative and indeed awesome, but it's not innovation unless it is a substantial change, like a hybrid mod with an electric pump feeding juice into an 8 coil RDA atty with a vapor accumulation chamber using some sort of ionization mechanism. That would be innovative.

 

[potholerepairman]

A cloud is just a cloud, or a pitbull,a beard ,or any thing that distracts from the real deal.

 

[stevegmu]

Increasing power over the safety limit of available batteries isn't innovation; it just sells more mods to the kids who vape to blow clouds...

 

[Tombie15]

I understand what you are saying except your use of innovation. It simply does not apply unless there is something significantly better or new. It can still be immaginative and indeed awesome, but it's not innovation unless it is a substantial change, like a hybrid mod with an electric pump feeding juice into an 8 coil RDA atty with a vapor accumulation chamber using some sort of ionization mechanism. That would be innovative.

I think you're talking about technical innovation and he's referring to innovating the experience of vaping. Cloud chasing takes relatively primitive technology and innovates on the experience itself, pushing those involved to delve deeper into what they're doing with their coils and how those coils affect the quality and experience of vaping.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

I think you're talking about technical innovation and he's referring to innovating the experience of vaping. Cloud chasing takes relatively primitive technology and innovates on the experience itself, pushing those involved to delve deeper into what they're doing with their coils and how those coils affect the quality and experience of vaping.

I would still tend to disagree, unless you are talking about a subjective emotional experience. I would have to see something like a factor of ten increased vapor production, or doubling in vapor density to consider it "innovative" in experience from what I can get without sub ohming or drilling with my Plume Veil on an IPV2. You know, a big difference.

 

[LisaB711]

Just reading through this.....

I'm more in the mind set of to each their own. But I do see the original post's point of lumping in the 'cloud chaser' with the person who uses the vaping to kick the cigs. It's kind of like comparing a street racer to a drag racer. You got the ones who will risk theirs and everyone else's lives by trying to be hot shots on the street, and you got the legit people who enjoy the sport and the speed and take it to the track to chase that demon down.

I'm vaping to kick the cigarettes, and to me, it's nothing like a cigarette, unless I get a big enough cloud to really make it feel authentic. That is the part that has really kept me from reaching for another pack of death (that and the nicotine). I wouldn't go so far as to risk my life or anyone else's just for that cloud though, that's just asking for trouble and ruining it for those that are 'keeping it at the track' so to speak. And it also makes me shy away from learning about mods. What's the point of getting into all of that when I can make adjustments to the stuff I already have without changing any of the important bits to get what I'm looking for.

I'm sure that this was just my hey look a squirrel post, but I wanted to throw in my .02.

 

[Tombie15]

I would still tend to disagree, unless you are talking about a subjective emotional experience. I would have to see something like a factor of ten increased vapor production, or doubling in vapor density to consider it "innovative" in experience from what I can get without sub ohming or drilling with my Plume Veil on an IPV2. You know, a big difference.

Well aside from the objective goal of keeping you from having a cigarette, isn't vaping an entirely subjective experience? I probably like different juices than you, I probably enjoy a different heat and density of vapor than you as well. I also enjoy the innovation and difference in quality caused by using a technologically innovative device as much as I enjoy rebuilding my coils in a new and interesting way to see how it changes the flavor, density, heat and quality of my vape.

I was just trying to say that I think you're both right.

 

[Kanthal]

Sub ohm vaping / dripping is cool if you have the time to constantly drip and fiddle with your device and the money to constantly buy 30ml bottles of 1 to 3 mg of nicotine juice, that would not last me 2 days before having to buy another 30ml bottle. When I first got into RDA's and mech mods I figured I would start saving money. But no, it's become the opposite. So much time and money is wasted in the long run when cloud chasing. Premium juice isn't cheap and the price is the same no matter if it's 0mg nicotine or 24mg nicotine. So now, my dripping RDAs just sit in the collection case with other vape gear I do not use. I can buy a 12 mg bottle of Illuminati Lion for $20 and it will last me a week in my Kayfun. If i was dripping 1 to 3 mg of the same juice it would cost me $60 a week. My kayfun produces a cloud equivalent to what a real cigarette would make. So for me, that's good enough.