The "CON'S" Of E-Smoking ... Addressing/Fixing

[CaSHMeRe]

Soooo ....

Looking to see if this makes sense to anyone else, or just me

Seeing all the issues with batteries, Carts, and Atomizers I started to rack my brain last week and figure out how there may be a way to improve the smoking experience.

These are the "CON'S" of our Current E-Smoking experience and what I will be trying to address/fix ... From what I have seen on the forums at least...
1. Lack of smoke/vapor
2. Atomizers Dying
3. batteries Dying/Charge not lasting more then a few minutes/hours
4. Carts not lasting
5. Not knowing when you have had your fix, and continuing to smoke. (IE: Taking in more nic then you would normally with reg. cigs)
6. God know what you are smoking from the Cart itself. Polyester, etc... ?

These are the 6 problems I will try and address below, and see if I may be on the right track to something.

It seems like the most successful way to e-smoke is through Dripping. By adding a single drop or two to the atomizer itself or adding several drops of e-liquid to the cart. Carts don't last per Manufacturer Specs and some experience a "burning taste", not to mention, going through several carts a day seemingly can cost quite a bit.

Now, imagine if you take the cart completely out of the picture, and just drip.

In ideal world, this is what I would like to see.
An E-Cig that has a chamber/cartridge completely filled with E-Liquid. When time to smoke the e-cig, you press a button (much like the Manual Jenty Switch) and it drips a single drop of e-liquid on the atomizer. You then take 10-15 puffs (equivalent to a single cig) and you're done. Battery shuts off, and is only on the for the time you smoked, thus saving battery life.
So, you would have, not only a longer battery life, but a CRAZY amount of smoke. You would also just refill a single cartridge/chamber when the liquid ran dry. You will also know once you have had the equilvalent of a single cigarette because there would be nothin else to smoke, and it would be consistent across the board. You could set up this type of e-cig to have a timer per say for how long the battery stays on after activating per the switch. Maybe 7-8 minutes.

Now, How hard would it be to make a chamber/cartridge with a valve, that opens/closes at the press of a button and drips on the atomizer itself?

Atomizers are really anyones guess. Some seem to last a day, while others last a couple weeks. If something like what I have stated above starts to work, then only atomizers would need replacing. If a generic atomizer could be made and bought in bulk, I still feel the price of the e-liquid + atomizer would be cheaper then reg. cigs. Then, you take the materials from the Carts (Polyster) out of the picture, and are now just dealing with a liquid itself.

You guys follow what I am trying to say? Ideas? Comments Welcome!

Thanks

 

[karenwest1961]

Actually I like that concept.

I think it's going to be a combination of a lot of concepts from THIS VERY FORUM that's going to be the brain-child of the perfect e-cig and liquid. (Of course, T-Bob is going to invent the perfect liquid.)

 

[ducktapehero]

I like the above suggestions. I also kinda like the "disposable" concept. Buy them ready to go. Smoke them then till they're empty and then toss them. However, Instead of tossing them in the trash I think they should be returnable for a refund to cut down on the pollution. Kinda like how in the 70's you could buy Coke in returnable bottles. That way we don't have to worry about recharging batteries and liquid. The average "e-cigarette" could maybe be equivalent to 5 packs and maybe we could buy a "carton" of 5 of them plus a small amount deposit. After they're done we could return them for a refund on our deposit. The company making them could take the "empties" and recharge them. Making the deposit a decent price would discourage littering.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

I like the above suggestions. I also kinda like the "disposable" concept. Buy them ready to go. Smoke them then till they're empty and then toss them. However, Instead of tossing them in the trash I think they should be returnable for a refund to cut down on the pollution. Kinda like how in the 70's you could buy Coke in returnable bottles. That way we don't have to worry about recharging batteries and liquid. The average "e-cigarette" could maybe be equivalent to 5 packs and maybe we could buy a "carton" of 5 of them plus a small amount deposit. After they're done we could return them for a refund on our deposit. The company making them could take the "empties" and recharge them. Making the deposit a decent price would discourage littering.

ducktapehero -- no need to dispose at all. Maybe only the atomizer would need to be disposed ... other then that, everything can be refilled/recharged. Once the chamber/cartridge is empty of its e-liquid, you simply take a syringe and fill it back up. done. nothing needs to be changed or disposed of. If you could fill up the chamber of e-liquid say, the equivalent to 20-30 cigarettes (average smoker), I don't think people would mind filling up the chamber/cart each night, and recharging the battery every night like your a cell phone.

Not sure you can dispose and reuse atomizers ... once dead, can it be reused? or will it just have to be trashed?

 

[TropicalBob]

I'm a believer that the masses will only take to this when it's as easy as buying and consuming cigarettes. That means the atomizer/cartridge will be a disposable combination. And I do mean disposable, because I think deposits ended due to the costs of all those exchanges. These must be use-and-toss devices.

The present situation is similar to roll-your-own. A few will; most won't.

Some big advantages of disposables will be -- should be -- elimination of the problems plaguing us now. No more atomizer failures, liquid in mouth, burned tastes, slick fingers, dangerous liquids lying around. But the cost has to be attractive enough to make a smoker want to do this. Most smokers you see on the TV tests now are disdainful of e-smoking. It certainly doesn't replicate the pleasure a cigarette gives. Addicted cigarette smokers won't give up cigarettes until prices and societal pressure force them to.

Then e-smoking has a chance, if it's appealing in all ways. There's a long way to go before that's a reality.

 

[Mr.Darcy]

all these ideas and many more have been discussed already,and i hope the manufacturers have been listening!the nearest thing we have is the G300,which will be out in a few weeks.it has disposable combination atomiser/cartridge-a step in the right direction,but alas,its cartridge life is too short,and not cost effective apparently-and it still uses a core to deliver liquid.i think an injection system is a little way off yet.personally i want something i can slot in and throw away again without messing around refilling with liquid-if its going to gain mass appeal,e-smoking must become very convenient,and that means truly disposable...and i want to control my own smoking,not have the device control it for me-all that switch off after a cigarettes worth or a certain time isnt very important really.in fact it would be downright annoying.what we need are convenient,disposable,dependable and affordable e-cigs.maybe itll happen someday

 

[CaSHMeRe]

...the nearest thing we have is the G300,which will be out in a few weeks.it has disposable combination atomiser/cartridge-a step in the right direction,but alas,its cartridge life is too short,and not cost effective apparently-and it still uses a core to deliver liquid.i think an injection system is a little way off yet...

very interesting .... thanks for posting!

 

[katink]

Guess I will have to be the 'contra' here...
- I do not like disposable, the world has too much of that allready. People need to learn that lesson... at most some small part of it, IF it is fully re-usable... sorry TB, we are going to have a lasting disagreement on this
- I would only like the dripping, if it would take over the role of the cartridge. Cartridge is something you can keep smoking from, dripping is not.
- Which brings me to the next 'contra-indication' (all for me, let that be clear ): I don't wánt to stop after the equivalent of one cig. So one cig used to last 15 puffs... and? Does that mean I have to keep that habit going even when I am clearly nót smoking a tobacco-cig? What is important, thát I agree on, is how much nicotine you get into your system. That should certainly not be more, and hopefully will be less and become even more less over time, then when you smoked. But... I think it's rather strange that people keep wanting to do this by taking 15 puffs (and thén what? 'light' up the next one? One really BIG advantage of e-cigs is: you take exactly as many sips as you want to take... be it 2 or 67... and then you can put it aside without any problems, without having to carry an awful smelling stub to re-light later, without losing flavour or that last little ...., without having had a need to leave your desk - so you can go straight on again without losing time... NONE of these problems... so just why anyone would want to re-invent those old habits is really beyond me... )
You can very well look at how many milligrams you are taking (per day is a good measure) and compare that with your tobacco from old days... there is no need what-so-ever, for me- to 'divide' my liquid into 'seperate cigs'. I used 20 mg smoking before per day? Ok... then I can't use more then 20 mg now... and thén I decide, looking at my own regular habits and what I like with the e-cig, how much mg nicotine my liquid needs to fill that in, across the day, in whatéver way I wish to fill that in... that is one big advantage of e-smoking... let's not throw that away... I like to sip for-ever. And I cán... all I need to do is take a lower mg liquid, and I can go on endlessly, and still have less mg at the end of the day...

 

[CaSHMeRe]

- I would only like the dripping, if it would take over the role of the cartridge. Cartridge is something you can keep smoking from, dripping is not.

Why can't you keep dripping from a cartridge? If electronically controlled to drip a certain amout at a certain time, all you would need to do is refill the chamber/cartridge.

 

[Mr.Darcy]

i agree that theres too much disposable stuff,but unfortunately thats the modern world for you.almost everything is disposable right now for a reason-convenience is king,and the masses want it,im afraid.hopefully some kind of compromise can be reached to make it more environmentally friendly.

 

[katink]

Why can't you keep dripping from a cartridge? If electronically controlled to drip a certain amout at a certain time, all you would need to do is refill the chamber/cartridge.

Yes, that sounds like it could take over the cartridge function reliably... so all happy with such a solution... provided it doesn't stop after 15 'sips', haha

 

[trog100]

i think i already have my disposable e smoking.. disposable to me is down to one thing.. how much the thing i am throwing away costs.. all things wear out in the end so everything can be considered to be disposable..

my roll up habit at UK rip off taxed to hell and back tobacco prices was 20 quid a week-ish.. say 40 US dollars..

my current c-cig pipe habit assuming each pipe/atomizer lasts two weeks and dripping with c-cig liquid looks like costing me roughly 11 quid a week.. or 22 US dollars.. a figure i can afford i think..

the pipes when dripped really do smoke nicely.. the batteries last a reasonable while because they are 960 mah.. three times the size of normal cig batteries..

all i have to do is order four new atomizers every two months (in advance) the same as i order my liquid.. with shipping they work out at 10 quid each.. 40 quid every two months roughly.. at two ml per day the liquid works out at around the same or slightly more than the atomizers..

from a planet saving point of view this isnt good.. having to throw away a beautifully made wood and machined brass pipe atomizer every two weeks is a disaster.. but if i have to do it i will..

a simple screw in replacement atomizer would solve the "planet" problem.. but i am working with what is there to work with..

nice reliable e smoking with no service problems for 20 quid a week... i think i already have it.. it takes but a few seconds to put ten drops of liquid in a pipe.. its designed for it.. no carts needed.. no carts is certainly good for the planet..

as to what it takes to get the public hooked.. who cares i certainly dont..

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

It's okay to disagree, Katink. Indeed, we might end up with both disposables and refillables. In which case, I'd pick the refillables because I'm a cheap SOB at heart.

I also can enjoy the liquid of my choice with a refillable -- not possible with a disposable.

Roll-yer-own and Marlboros are bought in the same tobacco shop. Why not a similar scenario for e-smoking's future?

 

[MNZ]

I agree with you TB, it is quite likely there will be two tiers of product available in the future, disposable and reusable, very much like ball point pens, throw away ... Bic ... reusable ... Parker for example. It's just occured to me that e-smoking is rather like fountains pens

 

[katink]

Guess so TB
Though I would still wish the disposable bar to be tiny, and the refillables to take the front row, of course

 

[trog100]

i spent some time in Kentucky a few years back.. we took some of out roll-up tobacco with us.. while in a fairly expensive restaurant in lexington we got winks from the waiters who thought we were smoking marijuana.. it never occurred to us marlboros were so cheap in the US that things other than tobacco were put in roll-ups.. but old habits die hard..

riding on a bus was quite an experience as well.. so was attempting to walk anywhere.. everyone seemed to find us a bit of a novelty thow.. all very friendly.. he he he

trog

ps.. whats the saying.. two countries divided by a common language..

 

[ducktapehero]

I don't think people would mind filling up the chamber/cart each night, and recharging the battery every night like your a cell phone.

One thing that disposable ones would do is allow people to e-smoke when they're camping or without electricity for some reason. If your electricity goes out in the wintertime and stays out for an extended length of time the disposable ones would be quite handy. Plus, I'm not against refillable ones. I'm all for them. I just think there should be options. And like I said, with a deposit it would cut down on people just throwing them away.

 

[Minus Sign]

number 7 if I may add to the original 6:

Easy to overdose. normal cigs have a natural cutoff; and you "know" when you're chainsmoking because you keep lighting up.

These guys make it way too easy to inhale more nicotine than is strictly needed for your addiction. People end up puffing till they're dry, then pop in a new cart (well, maybe not everyone, but I have, especially when at home on the PC). I mean, who knows; there may easily be a days use and more per cartridge. According to the Crown7 website, intended use is to puff once or twice, satisfy the craving and then stop.

How many people can honestly claim to do that?

The cartridge=pack design is, imo, unsafe, or can be made to look unsafe. There needs to be a physical cue to stop e-smoking after you get your fix. If this is squeezing a bulb, you can say "wait; I just puffed two minutes ago. I don't need to squeeze".

 

[jdrancor]

You know, I don't see the problem with the "oversmoking." Except for nausea, and an increased heart rate, there's nothing bad coming of it - primarily : NO CANCER. So what if you're more addicted to nicotine now than you used to be when you burnt tobacco? Who cares? Nicotine is great and wonderful and feels good.

So I guess, in a more sane way, my point is forget about the automatic shutoff. After a few "oversmokes" you'll learn to pick up on the cues from your body, and you won't oversmoke. As far as the nicotine addiction goes, I'm in no way looking to lose it. I like nicotine, and am delighted that there is a *relatively* satisfying and totally (well, time will tell) safe way to inhale it.

 

[Silver]

So I guess, in a more sane way, my point is forget about the automatic shutoff. After a few "oversmokes" you'll learn to pick up on the cues from your body, and you won't oversmoke.

Agreed. And as Katink already stated, by using a lower nicotine cartridge or liquid, you can regulate your nicotine intake as well, if this is an issue for you.

I bought my first Sedansa atomizer in February of this year and it is still working very well. I had some issues in the beginning because I had to learn when the atomizer was getting too wet, but now that I have that under control I'm very satisfied with the hardware. Only sporadically do I need to do some maintenance in the form of cleaning the atomizer (ie; rinsing it with water).

I have bought several more though in case I do run into trouble (because I live in New Zealand and shipping takes a while), so that I have replacements when and if I need them, and of all the Sedansa atomizers I have purchased, only one completely died on me and was replaced by the seller. The others are all still working excellently.

I use only cartridges, do not drip at all, and it works fine for me. In fact, I find myself having quit using tobacco cigarettes altogether even though that was never really my intention when I started this whole E-smoking malarkey, go figure ! I find that, even after a good thirty years of smoking tobacco, I much prefer the taste and experience of E-smoking to that of the tobacco cigarettes.

Batteries are indeed an issue. I now own 5 Sedansa batteries, of which 3 are the Long Life versions (they don't last me 8 hours, but the great advantage is that they only take 2 hours to charge), and two Janty Classic batteries (which are interchangeable between the Sedansa and Janty Classic atomizers), and that is more than sufficient to get me through the day. My partner, who still smokes a couple of tobacco cigarettes a day and doesn't E-smoke as much as I do, manages with just three without any problems.

In the meantime, because I too love new stuff , I have bought a KISS Box Classic and made use of a RuyanXpress offer of buying x amount of cartridges and receiving a Janty Classic cigarette for free. I actually find myself making more use of the Janty Classic (surprisingly great smoking experience, although it 'smokes' a bit heavier than the Sedansa and KISS, it produces a lot of smoke !!) than the KISS because of it's excellent performance. Don't get me wrong, IMO the KISS is not a bad product at all, but for me it's performance isn't that much better than the others that I favour it. I do like to use it specifically when I'm behind the computer, the USB option (once you have the right USB cable) is great !

So I guess perhaps we're just lucky in that it works really well for us and thus have no desire or need for any disposables. Like Katinka, I do like to keep smoking though and regulate my nicotine intake through the strength of cartridge that I smoke. I find myself wanting to buy lower strength as time goes by so who knows, one day I may even end up smoking non nicotine cartridges , we live in hope ...

Cheers,
Silver