Have you tried any of the loose(r) draw MTL devices? I don't like very tight draw myself anymore, so I switched to airier MTL atties and I am very happy with them. Basically, I prefer atomizers with 1.8 mm (minimum) to 2.4 mm diameter airflow intake hole (under the coil). Took me a while to figure it out, but that's what works for me now. Examples: eGo One with CLR coils, kayfun 4, SJMY Doggy.
The difference between MTL and DL?
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Have you tried any of the loose(r) draw MTL devices? I don't like very tight draw myself anymore, so I switched to airier MTL atties and I am very happy with them. Basically, I prefer atomizers with 1.8 mm (minimum) to 2.4 mm diameter airflow intake hole (under the coil). Took me a while to figure it out, but that's what works for me now. Examples: eGo One with CLR coils, kayfun 4, SJMY Doggy.
Most of what has been said is generalities yet many have been stated as pure fact.
1. First and foremost MTL and DTL are inhalation types only. In general MTL specific devices do use really tight air flow, higher resistance coils, and higher nic juice and DTL in general uses much looser air flow and lower nic, they do NOT have to. I personally vape MTL style on "DTL" tanks using a restrictive 510 drip tip and slightly closed off air flow. This gives me a nice loose, easy to draw, MTL experience. I cannot stand trying to use "true MTL" tanks. If you like sucking fresh milkshakes through a coffee straw, then true MTL is for you.
2. Also the resistance bit, I do my MTL using TC mode with SS316L wire, you are never going to get that in a 1.2 or higher ohm coil. So 0.5 ohm is what I use. So saying that MTL uses 1.2+ ohm coils is again a generality. They often do, but it is not required.
3. Battery life is again a generality. Battery life is a function of mAh and coil resistance (as well as board efficiency and a couple other factors). With higher resistance coils you do usually use less power thus batteries last longer, but again it doesn't have to. One person may prefer a warmer MTL vape at a lower resistance and higher power than someone who prefers a cooler vape as DTL using a higher resistance and lower power. Number of coils matters too...a LOT.
4. There are numerous factors in actual nic absorption, and while it is true that in most circumstances nic content is higher in MTL devices, it doesn't have to be. I am doing MTL using only 6mg/ml and I did 3 for a long time, I just wanted a bit more. I did start at 18mg but that was on cig-a-likes with anemic clouds and super tight airflow. I dropped to 6 as soon as I got my first EVOD and haven't looked back.
5. As far as which one gets you more nic I'd say it depends on a LOT more factors than just MTL vs DTL. Just as a for instance, if you are making bigger clouds, that is more nic per puff so you may need fewer puffs than someone making smaller clouds using the same liquid. Other factors would include how long you hold it in, do you exhale fast or slow, etc.
6. Clouds. Yes a quad coil straight VG DTL tank is going to chuck some serious clouds. Way more than any single coil "MTL" device ever will. However given the same coil type and quantity and the same juice, they can still be similar. My wife and daughter both use an Innokin Ares tank (true MTL) and both blow some pretty anemic clouds with them. I can take their devices and without changing anything easily blow double or triple the cloud they do and I am not even taking a longer draw. I am not sure why this is, but how you draw (even before inhalation) seems to matter...a lot. Also how long you hold it in matters.
The point of all this is not to say that anything anyone said above was inherently wrong, just that there are exceptions to nearly every rule. The bottom line here is that there are near limitless combinations and you just have to find what works for you. Maybe you like a tight draw and MTL inhalation, maybe a loose draw and MTL inhalation, or maybe a really lose DTL inhalation. Whatever it is you need, it's out there, somewhere.
As to how to DTL, I find that it is much easier if you don't close your mouth too tightly and as you inhale directly to the lungs let a little air slip in from outside of the tank through your lips. Good luck.
1. First and foremost MTL and DTL are inhalation types only. In general MTL specific devices do use really tight air flow, higher resistance coils, and higher nic juice and DTL in general uses much looser air flow and lower nic, they do NOT have to. I personally vape MTL style on "DTL" tanks using a restrictive 510 drip tip and slightly closed off air flow. This gives me a nice loose, easy to draw, MTL experience. I cannot stand trying to use "true MTL" tanks. If you like sucking fresh milkshakes through a coffee straw, then true MTL is for you.
2. Also the resistance bit, I do my MTL using TC mode with SS316L wire, you are never going to get that in a 1.2 or higher ohm coil. So 0.5 ohm is what I use. So saying that MTL uses 1.2+ ohm coils is again a generality. They often do, but it is not required.
3. Battery life is again a generality. Battery life is a function of mAh and coil resistance (as well as board efficiency and a couple other factors). With higher resistance coils you do usually use less power thus batteries last longer, but again it doesn't have to. One person may prefer a warmer MTL vape at a lower resistance and higher power than someone who prefers a cooler vape as DTL using a higher resistance and lower power. Number of coils matters too...a LOT.
4. There are numerous factors in actual nic absorption, and while it is true that in most circumstances nic content is higher in MTL devices, it doesn't have to be. I am doing MTL using only 6mg/ml and I did 3 for a long time, I just wanted a bit more. I did start at 18mg but that was on cig-a-likes with anemic clouds and super tight airflow. I dropped to 6 as soon as I got my first EVOD and haven't looked back.
5. As far as which one gets you more nic I'd say it depends on a LOT more factors than just MTL vs DTL. Just as a for instance, if you are making bigger clouds, that is more nic per puff so you may need fewer puffs than someone making smaller clouds using the same liquid. Other factors would include how long you hold it in, do you exhale fast or slow, etc.
6. Clouds. Yes a quad coil straight VG DTL tank is going to chuck some serious clouds. Way more than any single coil "MTL" device ever will. However given the same coil type and quantity and the same juice, they can still be similar. My wife and daughter both use an Innokin Ares tank (true MTL) and both blow some pretty anemic clouds with them. I can take their devices and without changing anything easily blow double or triple the cloud they do and I am not even taking a longer draw. I am not sure why this is, but how you draw (even before inhalation) seems to matter...a lot. Also how long you hold it in matters.
The point of all this is not to say that anything anyone said above was inherently wrong, just that there are exceptions to nearly every rule. The bottom line here is that there are near limitless combinations and you just have to find what works for you. Maybe you like a tight draw and MTL inhalation, maybe a loose draw and MTL inhalation, or maybe a really lose DTL inhalation. Whatever it is you need, it's out there, somewhere.
As to how to DTL, I find that it is much easier if you don't close your mouth too tightly and as you inhale directly to the lungs let a little air slip in from outside of the tank through your lips. Good luck.
Well I have over 160 SS316L Crown coil heads in stock at 1.2 ohms. So you can vape SS316L that high of a resistance. But most rebuildables there isn't enough room for a coil that size. I also MTL from 0.05 ohm to 2.2 ohms. I vape MTL on DL atomizers and also on MTL ones. Same when I vape DL, except I haven't DL higher than 1.2 ohms. I like a loose MTL and a restricted DL. So my atomizers tend to do both MTL or DL. But some of mine will only do one or the other well.
Yes I have heard this too. But what is odd, this hasn't been my experience at all. I have to vape constantly while MTL with 18mg. But I just need about 3 hits per hour of 6ml when DL. So I actually vape more juice when MTL. YMMV
There aren't very many factory built SS coils (sadly) so yeah I was talking primarily about rebuildables (see exceptions to every rule
). That is me to a T, loose MTL, restricted DL. I just build every coil exactly the same, makes TC across multiple tanks a lot easier. I use 26ga SS316L, 3.0mm diameter, 7 wraps.
The OP asked a general question about differences between MTL and DTL styles of vaping. So we tried to contrast and compare. When you contrast and compare, you use the extreme examples of both styles to make your point.
Yes, there are all kinds of vaping styles in the middle, which you described very well indeed. That said, I don't think you can get any kind of DTL-like draw from a Berserker or a cartomizer. Neither can you get a decent MTL draw out of this little gem (.16 Ω octocoil). In the realm of MTL vaping, .16Ω is basically a short.
Fascinating. I'm not being facetious at all. It just never ceases to amaze me how different we are and how different our vaping needs are. I think I'm going to unpack one of my monster DL tanks and give them another go.
Neither can you get a decent MTL draw out of this little gem (.16 Ω octocoil). In the realm of MTL vaping, .16Ω is basically a short.
To be fair I am not sure I would like the DTL from that either. Seems like it would be overwhelming. I do like some oxygen to reach my lungs and I tend to vape more while watching TV and still like to be able to actually see the TV.
Yes, but how much easier? The difference is conjectured generally
That’s happened before
I didn’t say it was impossible I said it was unlikely. Most people can’t vape like that and have it work.
That’s not how your original post went. Nor what I said in mine.
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There's so much variation between people that there are no "laws" of how to vape and what will work. Some folks will try every different method of vaping and not succeed in stopping smoking. Just like everything else it doesn't work 100% of the time. However, if one approach isn't working I would always try changing up, even if it's not the typical "high nic mtl only" approach to a new vaper.
Vapers also move through different phases. I was an accidental quitter when I picked up a Vuse for traveling. In four days I was off cigarettes.
Now Vuse is a 48 mg nic cartridge so I had a ton of nic. When I looked into vaping further I ended up with a Halo Triton eGo clearo setup and 24 mg of their Tribeca. It was so good! Then I started exploring other options and went through the Nauti coil mtl route.
After maybe 6 months I started on rebuildables. Even better than the Nauti coil (when wicked right and not leaking all over the place). I found I liked a looser draw and ended up with a DL approach but not for clouds, just preferred the looser draw over a straw like experience. Of course my nic dropped to 6 mg to compensate.
These days I've also got some pods in the mix. Both the Orion which is terrific and the Innokin EQ which is mtl work well when I'm out and don't want to carry a mod or need to stealth vape. So almost back where I was.
Interesting tidbit on use. When mtl I vaped about 2 ml of 24 mg nic, or 48 mg a day. Now I vape about 7-8 ml of 6 mg nic, or 42-48 mg nic a day. I guess it all balances out.
Vapers also move through different phases. I was an accidental quitter when I picked up a Vuse for traveling. In four days I was off cigarettes.
Now Vuse is a 48 mg nic cartridge so I had a ton of nic. When I looked into vaping further I ended up with a Halo Triton eGo clearo setup and 24 mg of their Tribeca. It was so good! Then I started exploring other options and went through the Nauti coil mtl route.
After maybe 6 months I started on rebuildables. Even better than the Nauti coil (when wicked right and not leaking all over the place). I found I liked a looser draw and ended up with a DL approach but not for clouds, just preferred the looser draw over a straw like experience. Of course my nic dropped to 6 mg to compensate.
These days I've also got some pods in the mix. Both the Orion which is terrific and the Innokin EQ which is mtl work well when I'm out and don't want to carry a mod or need to stealth vape. So almost back where I was.
Interesting tidbit on use. When mtl I vaped about 2 ml of 24 mg nic, or 48 mg a day. Now I vape about 7-8 ml of 6 mg nic, or 42-48 mg nic a day. I guess it all balances out.
My cheeks hurt because I have to suck much harder and longer to get a decent hit.
I vaped MTL for years. It wasn't until I started vaping sub-ohm coils that I began to prefer DTL, and now I can't go back to my MTL juice attachments. I'm spoiled.
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Hah. That's how it is... once you've seen the light of DL, you can't crawl back into the darkness that is MTL
My cheeks hurt because I have to suck much harder and longer to get a decent hit.
I vaped MTL for years. It wasn't until I started vaping sub-ohm coils that I began to prefer DTL, and now I can't go back to my MTL juice attachments. I'm spoiled.
This is exactly why I buy DL tanks, swap out the tip for a 510 narrow bore, and use it to MTL. I get to inhale my preferred MTL style and get nice clouds but without trying to suck chrome off a trailer hitch.
Pros of DL:
- It made me stop smoking 2 years ago
Cons of MTL:
- It made me completely ignore that vaping even existed, until finally I discovered DL and the rest is history
I tried this method with every DL tank I own, but somehow it doesn't quite work for me. I like my 2.5 mm ID coils, and those don't work so well over those huge (3 mm +) air intake holes under the coil. I believe that the ID of the coil should be similar in size to the air intake hole for proper vaporization and keeping the coil evenly heated and cooled, respectively. When I make a bigger coil, using smaller gauge wire, lower resistance, more wick, more power, the character of the vape just changes somehow and I don't care for it anymore. I'm not sure why. 3 mm air intake hole and coil ID are still doable for me, anything above that just doesn't work, no matter what size driptip I use.
Am I doing something wrong? (Like I said, I like a loose, easy draw but I don't want to DL).
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What wire are you using? Maybe try making a 3 mm coil using the same wire just 1 less wrap. Should keep resistance somewhat similar and thus power similar. I am currently using a Serpent SMM and it has 4 holes (2 on either side of the coil) instead of one underneath. Not sure what the size the holes are but they are pretty decent in size and rectangular.
For my MTL builds (2-2.5 mm holes) I like 29 and 28 g wire (Kanthal and/or SS). I tried 3 mm for larger holes. But it's been a while sice I played with my DL atties.
I need to get out more. Thanks. I'll try again soon!
For reference here is a closeup of the SMM deck so you can see the holes. The two rectanguler/oval holes on either side of the coil give great airflow. The large wick holes on the bottom are perfect for 3mm coils and cotton. I use 26ga SS316L, 3.0mm, 7 wraps. So about .55 - .6ohms TC mode around 24-25 watts.
One more thing, it came with a fatty 510 tip, I replaced it with this one:
$1.60 Stainless Steel 510 Drip Tip - 11mm dia. at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
I love this tip so much I have 11 of them and use one on every single tank/dripper I own.
$1.60 Stainless Steel 510 Drip Tip - 11mm dia. at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping
I love this tip so much I have 11 of them and use one on every single tank/dripper I own.
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