Let me guess you voted for obama... both terms !! lol JK No offense here but to believe they would only regulate the e liquid is naive. Once the government gets there grubby little paws on something they don't let go. I wouldn't have a problem at all if they "only" wanted to oversee the liquid to ensure a standard but I know better JMO
The final countdown to August 8th - your FDA comments NEEDED
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Let me guess you voted for obama... both terms !! lol JK No offense here but to believe they would only regulate the e liquid is naive. Once the government gets there grubby little paws on something they don't let go. I wouldn't have a problem at all if they "only" wanted to oversee the liquid to ensure a standard but I know better JMO
And CASAA had us wait till the end but all those other folks could have been submitting comments since the deeming was announced. From just what I'm seeing here there is a metric ton of stuff for them to sort through from us!
Personally I see no reason to flame you for your honesty! I buy from one vendor who is as transparent as possible with his ingredients and always posts new research surrounding the elements in his juices. Do I think we need to have an expectation that our juices aren't being mixed in someone's kitchen? Damn skippy I do! Do I think the FDA is handling the proposed regulation of vaping in a constructive way? Nope. Basically is vaping better than cigarettes? Yes, without a doubt. We need to have a proposal for regulation that does not feel like a Salem witch trial...
Vaper march?
The key to a successful march and media attention would be ridicule, humor and satire--all richly deserved and the most effective means to counteract tyranny.
They will regulate the hell out of anything congress empowers them to regulate. Regulators believe that it is their Holy Mission to regulate anything, everything and everyone that exists.
I wish I could share your optimism. But TC and the three letter acronyms carry a lot of weight.
I think we've done a much better and more efficient job of regulating ourselves than the government would ever hope to attain. Hands off. Zero regulation.
Yeah, our word of mouth reports about a company whether mods or juice can make or break them, though not all the vapers in the country are on here learning who to try and who to avoid. Regulation is coming, I would just like to see the government take a back seat. We have gone this far on our own, why do we need them??
Don't concern yourself with the cigar comments. Focus on e-cigarettes. We outnumber ANTZ by at least 100 to one. And we have a much better case. Keep going! Keep posting comments! Think! And, as I've suggested, if you run out of things to say, rebut the stupid ANTZ comments, which are mostly about the poor little chiilldreeen. There is lots of good information and logic to refute that nonsense. Ask for it here and ye shall receive.
If you see an ANTZ comment, click the "comment" button to the right and write a rebuttal. It's fun and addictive, my dear fellow "addicts"!
There is no such thing as "certainty." I'm not entirely certain that you aren't a figment of my imagination, or an invader from a parallel universe. Get it through you skull that this is about harm reduction. Focus on that, please.
Your missing the point of making these comments. The way I see it is the idealistic outcome would be that what we say will cause an immediate reversal of opinion to see it our way. Yeah, right. Maybe in Oz but not in the USA.
The practical purpose is delay. This is a way for many to get a reading on public reaction. The more people that react will dominate future decisions. They are seriously intending to eliminate the majority of the market with no replacement for a bunch of addicts? Ha, you bet they are a bit nervous about a reaction = the public campaign against ecigs. Already they have had to make things up and scrap the bottom of the barrel. So don't for a second think that push back hasn't made a difference because it has.
The more desperate they become, the more ridiculous they sound = another way for us to "win" in the arena of public opinion.
Consider that the FDA has been trying to ban menthol in cigarettes for over ten years now and look how far that's gotten. It's been delayed so many times it's almost a non-starter. Menthol definatley has had more lives than a cat so far. The logic behind the ban is just as faulty as what they are using with ecigs.
First they have to read the comments = delay even if it's to scan them
Then revise deeming documents = another delay
Resubmit to OMD = more delay
If revisions are extensive enough (possible) they may have to open them again for public comments = this whole thing starts over.
If they don't feel there is much reaction from the public then they could do minor revisions, resubmit and publish = the end.
So yea, right now raising your voice can make a huge difference. And I'm not personally familar with the regulation process, this is what I've heard.
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Bumping this for all of the night owls here on the East coast.
It's late but it's not TOO late--yet.
Please submit your comments. Multiple comments allowed! (Dogs are people too, right )
Thank you!
It's late but it's not TOO late--yet.
Please submit your comments. Multiple comments allowed! (Dogs are people too, right
)Thank you!
I'll not flame you, but we're already being amply taxed, so I wouldn't worry to much about that continuing to be the case. Forever. The FDA's share of the federal budget is relatively trivial.
But you must come to grips with the reality that nobody can ensure "that what [you] do inhale in [your] lungs is consistent and safe." Vaping isn't 100% safe. Nothing is. Every move you make, every breath you take is a calculated risk. Why this society has become so obsessed with the unattainable goal of absolute safety above all else is a complete mystery to me. And most unfortunate, IMO. If all you care about is safety, then why ever leave your dwelling? Why ever eat at a restaurant? Why do anything?
If the WWII generation had the same attitude, we'd all be speaking German and shouting "Heil Hitler." My favorite uncle flew many combat missions over Germany. Somehow, he survived, but those pilots had the highest casualty rate of all U.S. combatants. To the day he died, he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder. But he was tough and he was successful in business and as a human being. We need to keep those things in mind when we're talking about human liberties vs. safety and the freedom to choose what's in our own best interest. We must not, WE MUST NOT yield our liberty to a bunch of pencil pushing bureaucrats and crass politicians who think they know what's best for us.
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin.
You're getting me more fired up, if that's possible. Perhaps you should lead our march on Washington.
The trick to marches is getting media attention and I'm not sure they are ready yet. Our best defense is still to recruit as many smokers as possible and sign them up for CASAA. Maybe hold a huge national membership drive. If CASAA's numbers were 10x's bigger then they'd be much harder to dismiss. There are also a few non-obvious technical challenges that might need funding.
After this I think the largest war will be in city's and states. That's much harder to organize and fire up. Put your thinking cap on for that challenge - PLZ!
After this I think the largest war will be in city's and states. That's much harder to organize and fire up. Put your thinking cap on for that challenge - PLZ!
Agreed, but we have time. Look at all the cigar comments on the proposed regulations! The cigar retailers have mobilized the ranks. For the life of me, I can't understand why more e-cigarette vendors aren't alerting their customers and why most B&M stores are seemingly oblivious to this threat. It's their businesses on the line, for crying out loud! It's like Restaurant Impossible, where you see restaurants with dust, dirt and cockroaches everywhere and the food sucks. Then the owners wonder why large numbers of people aren't lining up to eat there. GMAFB.
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My realistic expectation is that they'll realize that they can't touch APVs ("What do you mean you won't let me sell this flashlight just because it has a screw on the end? That's for attaching the bulb!") or even atomizers as products for dealing with other substances, which I don't and never will use, have been on the market even in stores dedicated to them for decades now, and the FDA seemingly hasn't been able to make a dent in it. Hell, some jurisdictions, including DC, give away free syringe needles for the sake of reducing the spread of infective diseases.
The 0mg nic thing is a sideshow on that front.
The real fear is that I can't really see how they're going to regulate eliquid without it being extremely egregious and knocking even mid-sized businesses out of the game. The only thing that really makes sense is drastically tightening the availability of nicotine itself. Most flavorings are candy flavors and sold at innumerable businesses.
Unfortunately, without nicotine being available, the product sort of loses its point and effectiveness. People will just inhale any of the toxic breakdown products of PG/VG if they enjoy the flavors and still go on smoking (or using snus, or gum, or patches, or...) to get their nicotine fixes.
I might try to put this into a comment of some sort tomorrow.
The 0mg nic thing is a sideshow on that front.
The real fear is that I can't really see how they're going to regulate eliquid without it being extremely egregious and knocking even mid-sized businesses out of the game. The only thing that really makes sense is drastically tightening the availability of nicotine itself. Most flavorings are candy flavors and sold at innumerable businesses.
Unfortunately, without nicotine being available, the product sort of loses its point and effectiveness. People will just inhale any of the toxic breakdown products of PG/VG if they enjoy the flavors and still go on smoking (or using snus, or gum, or patches, or...) to get their nicotine fixes.
I might try to put this into a comment of some sort tomorrow.
If they ban plain nicotine liquid, then it will be difficult and expensive to obtain liquid that you can be confident isn't contaminated. Not impossible, but difficult. People who might otherwise quit smoking will find if hard to get quality juice or the ingredients they need to make their own. Most will probably not bother to do so, IMO. And so many will die prematurely. This is not acceptable to me.
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