The Fog Is Moving In

[MacTechVpr]

More vapor doesn't mean more flavor and that's why there still is a large amount of Vapers that are MTL with Tootie Puffers @ 1+ Ohm setups. PG does carry flavor much better that's why when you buy flavors for DiY most all are in PG not VG base.

Think it's water at a 1:1700 expansion ratio that results in the rapid atomization of both PG and VG regardless of their proportion. So the statement— more [water] vapor, more flavor. I don't think steam has a preference either way.

Good luck.

 

[r055co]

I agree but some direct lung setups are good for flavor... To me, no offense to anyone, it's like the difference between taking a sip of something really tasty with usually a hefty dose of nicotine adding to the flavor, and taking a few gulps of something really tasty (and warm) with a weaker (adds up with all the vapor) dose of nic.

Oh I'm a DTL Vaper, sometimes I will do MTL but 95% of the time I'm DTL. I prefer a full warm dense vape which MTL doesn't provide. Also with MTL you're usually double the nic level than with DTL. But back to the subject, PG does carry flavor better than VG.

 

[r055co]

Think it's water at a 1:1400 expansion ratio that results in the rapid atomization of both PG and VG regardless of their proportion. So the statement— more [water] vapor, more flavor. I don't think steam has a preference either way.

Good luck.

Water is picked up once it's inhaled thus little vaper going in, clouds coming out in the exhale due to the water picked up once inside your body. Which is the reason why you get a bit of dehydrated when you vape.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Water is picked up once it's inhaled thus little vaper going in, clouds coming out in the exhale due to the water picked up once inside your body. Which is the reason why you get a bit of dehydrated when you vape.

So, having examined hundreds of such analyses since 2009, my opinion is that the *average* vapour sample will contain around 66% water, 5% PG, 5% glycerol (assuming the refill originally contained both these materials in roughly equal amounts), 1.5% nicotine, and the rest flavorings. —Chris Price, Quora: Electronic cigarette vapor should be only water. When a smoker exhales, it's still in visible form. How?, Dec 21, 2016
Electronic cigarette vapor should be only water. When a smoker exhales, it's still in visible form. How? - Quora

It is mostly water @r055co and systems optimized for the water component in vaporization will do just that improving both volume and flavor. Some of our gear, juices and methods are and accordingly we're vaping better these days I believe.

But I'd grant individual preferences matter. What we perceive or are capable of sensing or detecting is just as important to getting that great vape.

Good luck.

 

[Fidola13]

Okay, it's one evening, I'm watching TV or playing a computer game, and smoking away on my e-cig. About 2 hours into what I'm doing, I notice my glasses are foggy, and my laptop screen is starting to get this oil on it. Any clue on what this is, and how can I get rid of it (if possible), or even have it stop all together?

I have a tower air purifier in the 2 rooms I vape the most. Every time I exhale I blow it towards that to reduce the buildup of VG sticking on things

 

[r055co]

So, having examined hundreds of such analyses since 2009, my opinion is that the *average* vapour sample will contain around 66% water, 5% PG, 5% glycerol (assuming the refill originally contained both these materials in roughly equal amounts), 1.5% nicotine, and the rest flavorings. —Chris Price, Quora: Electronic cigarette vapor should be only water. When a smoker exhales, it's still in visible form. How?, Dec 21, 2016
Electronic cigarette vapor should be only water. When a smoker exhales, it's still in visible form. How? - Quora

It is mostly water @r055co and systems optimized for the water component in vaporization will do just that improving both volume and flavor. Some of our gear, juices and methods are and accordingly we're vaping better these days I believe.

But I'd grant individual preferences matter. What we perceive or are capable of sensing or detecting is just as important to getting that great vape.

Good luck.

Yes it's mostly water as I stated that is picked up from the body and exhaled. The amount of vaper that is inhaled is a fraction of what is exhaled do to the water that is picked up by the body.

 

[Steve Parry]

I get both points. A liquid containing 5% flavoring and 95% pg will deliver a more flavorful vape than a liquid containing 5% flavoring and 95% vg.

However, in the same "all things being equal" relationship, an atomizer producing large dense clouds of a given e liquid will give more flavor than the same atomizer producing thin, wispy clouds of the same e liquid.

That's where the variables come in. One guy likes to vape at 12 watts on a small chamber atomizer with a 1mm airflow hole, while another vapes at 100 watts with dual cyclops holes wide open. The first guy calls himself a flavor chaser, and nobody bats an eye. However, it's entirely possible that the second guy is getting better flavor. In the end, it's all about what works for you, and not what pre-defined group your setup puts you in.

 

[MacTechVpr]

…PG does carry flavor much better that's why when you buy flavors for DiY most all are in PG not VG base.

To my understanding, VG and PG based juices (the carrier here on) often differ in concentration. The reason makers predominantly offer PG based flavorings I understand has more to do with business economics (higher base solubility) than the efficacy of PG as a carrier. But the prevalent mythology of PG's superiority without understanding why often leads to the misconception that PG based flavorings yield more flavor as part of vaporization. In fact, it's more often the effect of greater ingredient concentration than the effect of higher or more effective vaporization of PG as the carrier.

PG does aerosolize more effectively I believe as suggested by the proportion of VG/PG in the resulting aerosols per the art I posted earlier. So an argument can be made, a thin one, that PG has a slight advantage. However, it's rapidly negated as you reduce the VG base ratio, as i point out following.

I get both points. A liquid containing 5% flavoring and 95% pg will deliver a more flavorful vape than a liquid containing 5% flavoring and 95% vg.

Water is the elephant in the room.

It's the volatile expansion of water (in VG usually) that aerosolizes both PG and VG carriers. Without an adequate proportion of the latter or an adequate amount of water, vaporization declines. What we see in vapor are those visible aerosols of the bases and carriers. But the water in our vapor is not visible, it's a gas, at our typical output temp's.

My experience with those I've worked with over 5 years is you drop VG, you net less vapor output. Confirmation? All over this forum. We get clouds (vapor) from VG production. And with that, flavor density. Must be: Less vapor, less gusto (because water vapor carries the aerosolized flavor ingredients) in the atomizer output stream. So then, the opposite must be true — more vapor, more flavor. And there's a simple explanation for this in the minimal water content present in VG which is vital to vaporization.

The higher [flavoring] concentration potentials of PG are a benefit when the water content is adequate for optimal aerosol production (vapor/flavor density). Reduce VG too much and you see a reduction of aerosolized glycerin, PG/VG, both or either.

IMO you want good flavor at whatever level of power, target best vapor density as the objective.

Recommending PG bases as the one-size-fits-all solution is misleading. It's the mix that matters.

And as to the OP's proposition, if you want to cook you have to make fire. Want flavor? There will be residue. We live in a physical universe.

Good luck.

p.s. Great holiday weekend all.

 

[Steve Parry]

IMO you want good flavor at whatever level of power, target best vapor density as the objective.

If we were identifying "good flavor" as the highest presence of flavor in your vapor, I agree 100%. If, however, we were to agree that there can be too much flavor in your vapor, depreciating the quality of the vape, then we enter a whole new realm. Hence in my scenarios, I said "all things being equal".

I order liquids from a vendor who allows you to select your own pg/vg level. They alter the flavoring amounts based on the amount of pg you select. This based on their experience of customers being dissatisfied with the same amount of flavoring in a high VG liquid that they found enjoyable in the same liquid with a higher level of PG.

 

[MacTechVpr]

If we were identifying "good flavor" as the highest presence of flavor in your vapor, I agree 100%. If, however, we were to agree that there can be too much flavor in your vapor, depreciating the quality of the vape, then we enter a whole new realm. Hence in my scenarios, I said "all things being equal".

I order liquids from a vendor who allows you to select your own pg/vg level. They alter the flavoring amounts based on the amount of pg you select. This based on their experience of customers being dissatisfied with the same amount of flavoring in a high VG liquid that they found enjoyable in the same liquid with a higher level of PG.

Yep, agree. Too much of a good thing often isn't. Too much water can decrease vapor production. And too much flavoring concentration in mix or vapor can make for taste overload. Not promoting here as much as emphasizing factors that I found may be useful in a better targeting of the vapor or flavor result. Certainly not dissing options or PG. Quite the opposite. I encourage alternatives and that most of all we prove all things. As best we can.

BTW, I'm flavor sensitive, satisfied with a moderately dense warm vape at most points South of 25W. Truly enjoy testing what everyone else likes tho and the best means to get there. Currently and since year one it's been high power (early adopter) behind the scenes. So not blaming anybody, it's my own doing, but clouds are my special place.

Good luck Steve, and enjoy the journey.

Good luck.

 

[Steve Parry]

Good luck Steve, and enjoy the journey.

Always.

Yes, I'm a guy who, early on, was always chasing a more intense vape. I remember getting a double barrel carto adapter and putting 2 dual coil 1.8 ohm cartos in it for a .9 ohm quad coil vape on a mechanical mod. Lol. Then it was a Bulldog or Phoenix RDA and pushing the ohms lower to get a better vape. People would say "I'm a flavor chaser" and I wondered what they thought I was getting. If I didn't drill out those drippers, the flavor would've been almost sickening. I wasn't trying to make big clouds so much as trying to dilute the vapor with some fresh air. The clouds were a byproduct.

 

[englishmick]

To my understanding, VG and PG based juices (the carrier here on) often differ in concentration. The reason makers predominantly offer PG based flavorings I understand has more to do with business economics (higher base solubility) than the efficacy of PG as a carrier. But the prevalent mythology of PG's superiority without understanding why often leads to the misconception that PG based flavorings yield more flavor as part of vaporization. In fact, it's more often the effect of greater ingredient concentration than the effect of higher or more effective vaporization of PG as the carrier.

PG does aerosolize more effectively I believe as suggested by the proportion of VG/PG in the resulting aerosols per the art I posted earlier. So an argument can be made, a thin one, that PG has a slight advantage. However, it's rapidly negated as you reduce the VG base ratio, as i point out following.



Water is the elephant in the room.

It's the volatile expansion of water (in VG usually) that aerosolizes both PG and VG carriers. Without an adequate proportion of the latter or an adequate amount of water, vaporization declines. What we see in vapor are those visible aerosols of the bases and carriers. But the water in our vapor is not visible, it's a gas, at our typical output temp's.

My experience with those I've worked with over 5 years is you drop VG, you net less vapor output. Confirmation? All over this forum. We get clouds (vapor) from VG production. And with that, flavor density. Must be: Less vapor, less gusto (because water vapor carries the aerosolized flavor ingredients) in the atomizer output stream. So then, the opposite must be true — more vapor, more flavor. And there's a simple explanation for this in the minimal water content present in VG which is vital to vaporization.

The higher [flavoring] concentration potentials of PG are a benefit when the water content is adequate for optimal aerosol production (vapor/flavor density). Reduce VG too much and you see a reduction of aerosolized glycerin, PG/VG, both or either.

IMO you want good flavor at whatever level of power, target best vapor density as the objective.

Recommending PG bases as the one-size-fits-all solution is misleading. It's the mix that matters.

And as to the OP's proposition, if you want to cook you have to make fire. Want flavor? There will be residue. We live in a physical universe.

Good luck.

p.s. Great holiday weekend all.

This stuff is new to me. Where does the water come from? Is it absorbed by the VG from whatever air it comes into contact with during mixing or storage or vaping? Do you recommend managing the water content in some manner?

 

[MacTechVpr]

This stuff is new to me. Where does the water come from? Is it absorbed by the VG from whatever air it comes into contact with during mixing or storage or vaping? Do you recommend managing the water content in some manner?

VG makes a good base as water soluble or humectant used to retain or preserve water and is hygroscopic, i.e. tending to absorb water from air. Generally commercial glycerin is referred to as anhydrous glycerin (not containing water). However, totally removing its water content is difficult and not necessarily needed. For most applications a water content standard USP of .5% (or below) is commonly available.

Water, the missing ingredient…

This is an area of interest which has commercial applications in our industry. The data is out there although not necessarily in vape-friendly form. My suggestion, call your sources as some may be helpful and keep good notes of your own. Utility is often a surprise. Related examples are flavor layering or bending and pH control. Another aspect beyond strain which I introduced with tension winding, is pressure and vacuum. Any good cook will tell you just how particular and valuable all such gained knowledge can be.

G'luck.

 

[DanR]

Okay and I agree with you all that maybe a newbi comes by and wants to know. Okay, then since this is still open, let me riddle this question. I usually vape at 70(PG) and 30(VG). If I increase the PG by 10 and decrease VG by 10 when I start making my own juice, I think maybe my fog will go away. Who knows right? This should be fun tho with me making my own NET.