I could find no such graph in the datasheet of either the Sony VTC5A or the Sony VTC6.
The question of life... battery life.
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Battery capacity is often given in watt/hour instead of the more common milliamp/hour, to take into account the variable battery voltage during discharge. As an example, a 3000 mah battery is rated for 3.7 V * 3000 mAh = 11.1 Wh.
So, you can find a graph with Wh (battery capacity) on the vertical axis, and Amp (load current) on the horizontal axis.
Compare the capacity of any of the most common 18650 cells at 10 Amp load and 20 Amp load.
It is possible, but incomparably inefficient, to run a 18650 cell at 20 Amp load.
This behaviour of batteries is a continued source of surprise for many novice battery users.
It is also the reason why I use a one-cell mod up to 25 W, a two cells mod up to 50 W, and a three cells mod for mesh coils at 75 W.
So, you can find a graph with Wh (battery capacity) on the vertical axis, and Amp (load current) on the horizontal axis.
Compare the capacity of any of the most common 18650 cells at 10 Amp load and 20 Amp load.
It is possible, but incomparably inefficient, to run a 18650 cell at 20 Amp load.
This behaviour of batteries is a continued source of surprise for many novice battery users.
It is also the reason why I use a one-cell mod up to 25 W, a two cells mod up to 50 W, and a three cells mod for mesh coils at 75 W.
Often yes, but the nominal voltage of 3.7V is completely utterly useless for that. For example, everyone who knows a thing or two about batteries will know that both the Sony VTC5A and the Samsung 25R are rated for 3.6V and Mooch has measured they both are 2500mAh batteries, but that, despite this, the Wh delivered by them in the real world typically nowhere nearly accurately reflects this, and, IMO the best possible explanation of why that is, exactly, is this:
No, I couldn't find it anywhere I looked.
I usually vape at way more than 100 watts with just a single 18650 cell. With the battery fully charged, typically in fact it will be several watts higher than 120 watts for me, as for me in addition to high wattage vaping (i.e. I've never ever actually vaped below 80 watts, even though I tried to do so...) the compactness/size/weight/portability tends to be a bit of a predominant factor most of the time, but certainly not always.
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I'll do a search and post a link for you later.
In the meantime, the same indication is provided by Mooch in his battery reviews, in the "Rating Graphics", in the table "Energy to 3.2 V".
The table extracts three significative points from the energy graphs, at 10 A, 20 A and 30 A loads.
At 20 Amp load, the battery provide half of the energy of at 10 Amps.
This is due to electrochemical kinetic limitations of the reaction, opposing the thermodynamic of the battery.
In the meantime, the same indication is provided by Mooch in his battery reviews, in the "Rating Graphics", in the table "Energy to 3.2 V".
The table extracts three significative points from the energy graphs, at 10 A, 20 A and 30 A loads.
At 20 Amp load, the battery provide half of the energy of at 10 Amps.
This is due to electrochemical kinetic limitations of the reaction, opposing the thermodynamic of the battery.
Sorry, but no, it doesn't. Take the Samsung 20S for an example; at 20 amps down to 3.2 volts it delivered 5 Wh, whereas at 10 amps down to 3.2 volts it delivered 6 Wh.
The nominal voltage of a battery is not an opinion, an expression or an average of a set of values.
The nominal voltage is established from the manufacturer and is linked to the chemistry of the battery.
The nominal voltage is the voltage point where the battery yields the most of its energy and, very important, is where the internal resistance of the battery is the lowest, along all the discharge curve.
And... The battery you linked is not the most common type we use...
...the run-of-the-mill 21700 they all halves capacity between 10 and 20 Amp load.
Anyway, the data you are now looking at, is the one I initially mean, so you can choose the most efficient battery.
In any case you loose efficiency space-wise. That is a short bedsheet, you either cover the feet, or the head...
The nominal voltage is established from the manufacturer and is linked to the chemistry of the battery.
The nominal voltage is the voltage point where the battery yields the most of its energy and, very important, is where the internal resistance of the battery is the lowest, along all the discharge curve.
And... The battery you linked is not the most common type we use...
...the run-of-the-mill 21700 they all halves capacity between 10 and 20 Amp load.
Anyway, the data you are now looking at, is the one I initially mean, so you can choose the most efficient battery.
In any case you loose efficiency space-wise. That is a short bedsheet, you either cover the feet, or the head...
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I never said the nominal voltage is an opinion. The nominal voltage is irrelevant when determining the Wh that the battery will factually deliver. The nominal voltage is NOT the voltage point where the battery yields the most of its energy. Instead, it is the voltage that is measured when the battery has discharged 50% of its total energy. Li-ion has higher internal resistance at full charge and at end of discharge with a big flat low resistance area in the middle so yeah, the SoC does affect the DC IR, but no, the nominal voltage tells us nothing about what the discharge curve looks like, only people like Mooch do, and in the video I linked previously Mooch explained in sparkling detail why we need to look at this curve instead of looking at the nominal voltage. I have absolutely no idea why you are even arguing against that fact.
That said, I don't claim to be an expert nor feel the need to pretend that I am. But I think it's safe to say I did pay more than reasonably good attention to Mooch's overwhelmingly numerous and very highly informative explanations on the subject of batteries in general. The battery I linked might not be the most common type you use. But I use it all the time. There's a reason why Mooch wrote it is the hardest hitting 18650 available to us right now. It's called high wattage vaping on a mech. The reason why the Samsung 20S is relevant to the discussion is because not only it hits harder than the Sony VTC5A, but also it gives you pretty much the same vaping time as the Sony VTC5A if vaping at 300 watts on the HOG so that, in this regard anyway, you can't really use the 2000mAh rating for an excuse against the Samsung 20S despite the Sony VTC5A is 2500mAh. Dont wanna believe me? Here is a picture of my HOG collection to suggest I am talking from first-hand experience:
Further, here is a bit of fan art I made to show you I really do know what I am talking about when I say you need to look at the discharge curves to find out where the higher capacity (mAh) of the Sony VTC5A causes the Sony VTC5A to catch up with the Samsung 20S; for your convenience I marked the intersections with a small up-arrow symbol:
I understand you use mechs, therefore your battery choice is somewhat limited to very low IR cells.
I am not disputing what you are saying, I realize I gave the wrong impression at this point.
I have been in the battery design / portable power design business for quite some time, so I still use my test equipment to conduct some very specific tests on the batteries I use.
As a side note, Sony / Panasonic / LG vape batteries we commonly use, are not the absolute best batteries actually available.
I have some amazing batteries obtained by harvesting cells from industrial battery packs, truly "A" bin, with uncommonly low IR, self discharge and cycle life.
Also, it is possible to run DNAs on LiFePO4, with surprising results.
I guess LiFePO4 would be a great choice for mechs, as they make the HB6 and 20s look like zinc-carbon batteries in comparison.
I think they don't get widely used because the Chinese don't know how to manufacture them, much as the good e-liquids.
At last, and this is an opinion (...albeit widely shared), I think of mechs as a telegraph with Morse, Vs the regulated mods as WhatsApp with TCP/IP.
Regards,
Anthony
I am not disputing what you are saying, I realize I gave the wrong impression at this point.
I have been in the battery design / portable power design business for quite some time, so I still use my test equipment to conduct some very specific tests on the batteries I use.
As a side note, Sony / Panasonic / LG vape batteries we commonly use, are not the absolute best batteries actually available.
I have some amazing batteries obtained by harvesting cells from industrial battery packs, truly "A" bin, with uncommonly low IR, self discharge and cycle life.
Also, it is possible to run DNAs on LiFePO4, with surprising results.
I guess LiFePO4 would be a great choice for mechs, as they make the HB6 and 20s look like zinc-carbon batteries in comparison.
I think they don't get widely used because the Chinese don't know how to manufacture them, much as the good e-liquids.
At last, and this is an opinion (...albeit widely shared), I think of mechs as a telegraph with Morse, Vs the regulated mods as WhatsApp with TCP/IP.
Regards,
Anthony
I probably should have added that the "us" part in "available to us" was referring specifically to those vapers who, like me, always buy their batteries from one of the battery vendors that are on Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors. Personally I don't mind having no access to truly "A" bin batteries, as I'm not a cloud chaser trying to win a comp, and, I suspect the same holds true for the OP, as those trying to win a comp typically don't worry about the question of battery life, at least not in the sense that the OP was talking about.
I have zero interest in DNA mods, as I don't do temp control (nor Replay). About those LiFePO4 batteries, I have been planning to get some A123 ANR26650M1-B batteries for my Vapergate The 99 mech mod. Their continuous discharge curve is horizontal flat for most of the discharge cycle so certainly I can see the advantage of that when using them in this type of mod. For now, though, I'm vaping on a single coil 7-core alien in the 30mm Deathtrap RDA at .18 ohms with this mod using a pair of iJoy 26650s in it, and that also performs nicely enough for me to be happy with the iJoy 26650 performance.
There are several reasons why I switched from regulated mods to mech mods. First and foremost, I find that they simply vape better with the right coil build and choice of atomizer combination, and I find that they do so both in terms of flavor and in terms of how the vape feels, how satisfying the vape is compared to trying to mimic the characteristics of the vape by using a custom power curve in NFE Toolbox and ArcticFox on the Reuleaux RX300. (If you've ever tried to use the custom power curves feature of a DNA mod and compared that to how it all works in ArcticFox, you'll know that DNA mods are actually much worse than a telegraph with Morse, and there aren't that many 4-battery DNA mods out there that I know of...) Put simply, the one word that best describes the vape experience I get with any regulated mod is the word ersatz. Secondly, top quality mech mods have a pretty strong tendency to not suddenly break easily, and that also is an important part of why I feel safer with them than I feel with any regulated mod, as I trust my own brain more than I trust safety features manufactured by some Chinese chipmaker so, in essence, mech mods are a way of life.
Finally, the fact many people share your opinion re "telegraph and Morse", doesn't make those people smarter. The irony is in this other fact, which is that truly smart people happen to be only a really very small minority...
I agree with you that the pure DC signal of a mech make the best taste for a vape.
I also agree with the fact that some TC mods, with their distorted / pulsed signals produces odd effects on the quality of vape.
And, just don't understand why this is given more emphasis by the reviewers.
But.
It is possible to build active (non-mech) mods where power is managed much better way than a simple battery - coil circuit.
If you include the inherent lack of safety of mech mods, you can see why I disagree so vehemently on their alleged qualities.
I have some mechs in the collection which I seldom use, and I carefully test the batteries in them with the analyser before firing them up.
But not every daily user of mechs is so detailed with safety.
At everybody its own, the vape world is so vast and varied, it makes for its beauty...
I also agree with the fact that some TC mods, with their distorted / pulsed signals produces odd effects on the quality of vape.
And, just don't understand why this is given more emphasis by the reviewers.
But.
It is possible to build active (non-mech) mods where power is managed much better way than a simple battery - coil circuit.
If you include the inherent lack of safety of mech mods, you can see why I disagree so vehemently on their alleged qualities.
I have some mechs in the collection which I seldom use, and I carefully test the batteries in them with the analyser before firing them up.
But not every daily user of mechs is so detailed with safety.
At everybody its own, the vape world is so vast and varied, it makes for its beauty...
I don't think you understand my point about mech mods. Any power management system that isn't a true mech where the power is managed solely by the combined resistance of the atomizer/coil and the mech itself is going to 1/ be limited by the efficiency of the board and 2/ alter the inherent character that only the voltage sag curve or shape of the battery can provide so, if what you suggest is so much better than a mech, then please explain why no-one is buying it?
As for the safety of mech mods... Mooch himself has said you're going to have to not only accept that the built-in safety features of a regulated mod CAN fail, but also you're going to have to assume that they WILL fail, to which I'll add that your average regulated mod user does not assume that AT ALL because, instead, the vast majority of regulated mod users are just hiding their own lack of safety knowledge behind those features so no, I really CAN'T see why you disagree so vehemently on the alleged qualities of mech mods.
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