The Synthetic Nicotine Loophole

[Annette Rogers]

Synthetic nicotine circumvents FDA oversight. Scammy fad or the future of vaping?
https://www.kaisvirginvapor.com/blogs/news/the-synthetic-nicotine-loophole
The Synthetic Nicotine Loophole

Has anyone here tried it? Curious to know your experience if you have!

 

[stols001]

The former since the moment it gets widely used, it will then also be taxed out of existence. I don't know if I'd call it scammy but it's a loophole.. Until it isn't.
Anna

 

[somdcomputerguy]

More regulations are on the horizon and they will almost certainly shut down the synthetic nicotine loophole in short order.

I believe that loophole will be quickly tightened into a gordian knot as well.

 

[Plumes.91]

Nic labs will just have to take hint from the club scene and release a new nicotine analogue when one is made illegal or taxed (just kidding)

I am curious as to how they can ban vape devices though. Remember those 510 connection screw in flashlight heads? I mean, technically, every new vape device that comes out is actually just a flashlight. Maybe using them to vape will be illegal but, what are ya gonna do to enforce that when people are vaping in privacy?

 

[zoiDman]

Synthetic nicotine circumvents FDA oversight. Scammy fad or the future of vaping?
The Synthetic Nicotine Loophole

Has anyone here tried it? Curious to know your experience if you have!

If the Future of Vaping is Synthetic/Tobacco Free Nicotine (TFN), then it is going to be an Expensive Future.

I have tried it...

ETA: I have tried Synthetic Nicotine.

And it was almost Tasteless and Odorless at Vapable mg/ml's. But Not Night n' Day to any of the High End Nicotine Bases I had at the time. More on a Par.

And the Average DIY User would Probably Not see a huge Difference in a Finished Flavored e-Liquid.

I also Think that TFN is a Dead End Road.

Because for Us, if it Isn't a "Covered Tobacco Product" then it is a Drug. That is the Doubled-Edged Sword that we Needed to wield to Allow e-Cigarettes to get thru Judge Leon's Court back in Late 2009/Early 2010.

 

[Annette Rogers]

Interesting, zioDman, I haven't tried it myself. And, I agree with other comments here, it's a loophole but the powers that be are already moving to close it--starting on the state level.

 

[zoiDman]

Interesting, zioDman, I haven't tried it myself. And, I agree with other comments here, it's a loophole but the powers that be are already moving to close it--starting on the state level.

Yeah... TFN just Isn't a very viable alternative to Nicotine derived from Tobacco for what we do. And for where we are Today.

 

[CAAB]

Haven't tried TFN myself. I was interested in it from a flavor standpoint. I also wondered about whether it is more shelf-stable? For example, would it last longer at room temperature without oxidizing, losing potency, or imparting an undesirable flavor than naturally derived nicotine? That would be a good selling point if it made e-liquid last longer or if the TFN didn't need to be stored in freezer long term.

On the flip side, if it had a weird taste over time or didn't have a good shelf life, that would be a problem, especially considering the cost. I am thinking it would take a good 1-2 years at least to conduct a test, but by then, who knows, might not be able to buy it or sell it.

Another thought I had. Kind of like CBD. The CBD market took a lot of the taboo out of hemp. It makes me wonder about the whole tobacco alkaloids, like anabasine and cotine for example. Maybe offering something like a full-spectrum tobacco alkaloid, but possibly derived from alternative sources. What's FDA stance on WTA? Probably not favorable I imagine...

 

[CAAB]

P.S. Stocked up on KVV favorites here. Too bad you can't ship to NY. Hopefully the ban will be lifted when NY runs out of money.

 

[Annette Rogers]

Interesting questions, CAAB, I haven't tried or played with TFN myself so I don't know the answers. Ugh, the NY thing, so frustrating! Cuomo's previous attempt at an "emergency flavor ban" was struck down by the courts so he snuck it through in the budget instead. I believe if we are successful in getting a marketing order from FDA we will be able to ship there again, but that could take at least a year.

 

[zoiDman]

Haven't tried TFN myself. I was interested in it from a flavor standpoint. I also wondered about whether it is more shelf-stable? For example, would it last longer at room temperature without oxidizing, losing potency, or imparting an undesirable flavor than naturally derived nicotine? That would be a good selling point if it made e-liquid last longer or if the TFN didn't need to be stored in freezer long term.

...

AFAIK the Shelf Life under identical storage is the Same for TFN vs Tobacco Derived Nicotine.

Just Curious... What would be the Most you would spend for 1L of 100mg/ml TFN?

 

[CAAB]

I believe if we are successful in getting a marketing order from FDA we will be able to ship there again, but that could take at least a year.

I was hoping so. I remember something about PMTA-approved items being allowed. Although I wonder about the ability to ship online. The funny thing is that NY is talking about legalizing recreational marijuana for tax revenue purposes. The logic escapes me.

Regarding the WTA, it looks like it's hard to find the good stuff now a days, so I missed that bandwagon.

AFAIK the Shelf Life under identical storage is the Same for TFN vs Tobacco Derived Nicotine.

Just Curious... What would be the Most you would spend for 1L of 100mg/ml TFN?

Good to know about the shelf-life. Regarding how much I would spend for TFN, I saw River Supply Co selling $45 for 150ml. I think that's a good starting point to try the longevity and flavor comparison experiments, if I could get it shipped to NY lol. The superiority of TFN would have to be pretty pronounced for one to think about investing further, given the price comparison.

However, if naturally derived nicotine is taxed at a level that makes the price comparison with TFN the same, then I think a lot of people would be forced to evaluate the comparisons more closely. That is, if the TFN loophole isn't closed by then.

All that said, the good folks at ECF got me sorted before PMTA deadline or even the NY ban. I have enough nicotine in freezer to last for the foreseeable future.

 

[Annette Rogers]

I was hoping so. I remember something about PMTA-approved items being allowed. Although I wonder about the ability to ship online. The funny thing is that NY is talking about legalizing recreational marijuana for tax revenue purposes. The logic escapes me.

Haha, no kidding! Try to find logic in San Francisco banning vape products from being sold or shipped anywhere in the city but allowing cigarettes at every gas station! Grrr!

 

[zoiDman]

Good to know about the shelf-life. Regarding how much I would spend for TFN, I saw River Supply Co selling $45 for 150ml. I think that's a good starting point to try the longevity and flavor comparison experiments, if I could get it shipped to NY lol. The superiority of TFN would have to be pretty pronounced for one to think about investing further, given the price comparison.

However, if naturally derived nicotine is taxed at a level that makes the price comparison with TFN the same, then I think a lot of people would be forced to evaluate the comparisons more closely. That is, if the TFN loophole isn't closed by then.

All that said, the good folks at ECF got me sorted before PMTA deadline or even the NY ban. I have enough nicotine in freezer to last for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately, I Haven't seen any Proposed Tax Bills that differentiate between Nicotine derived from Tobacco or TFN.

So we will probably be in the Same Tax Boat either way.

----

Having a Stocked Up freezer is a Great Feeling. And something I Hope most have.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

and the knot slowly but intricately grows..
Regulatory report: synthetic nicotine in the US – ‘tobacco product’ or not? - ECigIntelligence