The ECITA is the e-cig trade group in Europe. The ECA is the U.S. group that went "belly up."
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The ECITA is the e-cig trade group in Europe. The ECA is the U.S. group that went "belly up."
@ Kristin
I agree with you Kristin and that is my concern as well - I guess I should have said....'ideally' this would be the best case scenario........ There is still an outside chance that there may be some 'non-selling' retired business leader who is a vaper who would be good for a leadership position. It would also require a good portion of the e-cig companies to see the value of an association and literally "buy into" the whole idea, i.e companies I think would have to be willing to pay into an association for the representation and in order for that representation to be strong, respected and effective, and I think we are probably a long way from that right now. The sting and disappointment re:the utter failure of the ECA still remains. I realize many companies are small and with limited resources but I sincerely believe that unless they form a viable and representative consortium, pooling their strengths, presenting a professional and united front and working together, in a meaningful way, for the best interest of the industry as a whole, then the fate of the entire industry will be the more vulnerable and most assuredly many, particularly the smaller companies, will be eliminated through stringent regulatory standards and co-opted competition strategies.
I agree with you Kristin and that is my concern as well - I guess I should have said....'ideally' this would be the best case scenario........ There is still an outside chance that there may be some 'non-selling' retired business leader who is a vaper who would be good for a leadership position. It would also require a good portion of the e-cig companies to see the value of an association and literally "buy into" the whole idea, i.e companies I think would have to be willing to pay into an association for the representation and in order for that representation to be strong, respected and effective, and I think we are probably a long way from that right now. The sting and disappointment re:the utter failure of the ECA still remains. I realize many companies are small and with limited resources but I sincerely believe that unless they form a viable and representative consortium, pooling their strengths, presenting a professional and united front and working together, in a meaningful way, for the best interest of the industry as a whole, then the fate of the entire industry will be the more vulnerable and most assuredly many, particularly the smaller companies, will be eliminated through stringent regulatory standards and co-opted competition strategies.
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And I think they'd get more vendors signing up with reasonable dues. Charging $200 - $250 a month is pretty steep. Charge less and get more participation and it should even out - or use a sliding scale.
If all of this is true, which seems somewhat clear at this point, then we might want to start fighting them as well.
At the very least we should not support them.
But to take it a step further we should be making it clear they do not represent "us" or our collective goals.
Let them fly free and clear without opposition and they may gain the strength that comes from prestige.
And then we may not be able to stop them, assuming of course that now we might be able to.
I just had a very strange thought. Since electronic cigarettes will at some point be regulated as tobacco products, what about some of the e-cigarette vendors approaching the Tobacco Retailer's Association to see if that goup would be willing to take on e-cigarettes as a sub-group. One of the biggest barriers to vendors staring a Trade Association is lack of experience and knowledge about trade assocations. The TRA has been around the block many times and already does advocacy work to protect the market for smokeless tobacco, does it not?
Are there any "good guys" who have actually succeeded in getting their products in 50+ stores across America? I don't know the reputation of the leading companies. Anyone know anything about the penny stock companies that have sprung up in recent years?
Barring someone with experience in this matter forming something, I think this might be a route to go. A few years ago I was working with some RPG publishers, who ended up working together under a publishing house that was sort of a middle man with retailers and distributors. They'd get their products into stores because the publishing house had clout even if the individual publisher did not. They'd also help them get convention and other exposure that the individual might not have been able to afford. Is there anything like this for tobacco/ecig vendors?
RPG publishers. Had to google that one- role playing game publishers for those among us who are uninitiated. I didn't think you were publishing about rocket propelled grenades, homeland security may have been interested. You can tell I've had military in my background.
Definitely not! And I spoke of conventions! I wouldn't want to go -that- convention! But no, I meant the folks who put out books.
Here is an example of a trade association in action:
Tobacconists Say Utah Legislators Head for Unintended Consequences with HB0170
Tobacconists Say Utah Legislators Head for Unintended Consequences with HB0170
I dunno . . . we've always been able to argue we're not "Big Tobacco," and I wonder if throwing in with a Tobacco Trade Association would dilute that claim a bit.
Personally, I'm hopeful that ECITA will make the decision to expand into the U.S. What they've been doing in Europe is pretty amazing.
Meh. Why should we be afraid of tobacco? Tobacco is no more evil than cacao, coffee, tea or any other plant in that it can be used to create a variety of products with various hazards and benefits associated with their use. Big Pharma wants people to believe that Tobacco companies are somehow more motivated by profit and greed than other companies whose products are regulated by the FDA. Think about it, if drugs or tobacco products cause people to get sick or die, who benefits more: tobacco companies or pharmaceutical companies??
The disinformation and denormalization of tobacco is so ubiquitous that we seem to have a paralyzing fear of guilt by association. <--Is that the kind of sentence that we really want used to describe our society??
The known carcinogens in Tobacco can only account for 2% of the cancer attributed to smoking--the other 393,000 estimated annual deaths and 8.6 million people with chronic illnesses are specifically associated with the hazards and byproducts of combustion from smoking. Tobacco companies are trying to offer products that don't have any of the dangers of smoking but the Pharmaceutical companies selling 98% ineffective drugs are trying to ban them so people who are dependent on nicotine but do not want to smoke will have no option but the drug or black market. Who are the "bad guys" again???
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As you well know, Thad, you are preaching to the choir on this one. Tobacco is not inherently evil nor particularly dangerous in and of itself.
But we've been successfully arguing that we have no ties to organized tobacco, and I'm wondering whether our vendors would be better served by, at least for now, not getting into a traditional tobacco trade association.
Yes, I do know that the only reason you mentioned it was for strategic purposes, but I was just making the point that allowing the fear of guilt by association to determine our strategy only perpetuates the myth.
Considering what nearly sneaked past Utah yesterday, it definitely seems like vendors who want to continue selling online really need to band together or they could start losing customers state by state. So for the sake of finding others with mutual interest, you are right that some vendors might be better served by an organization that does not yet exist...But if vendors want to get their products into retail locations and states that might ban online sales, teaming with tobacconists is probably their best bet.
Speaking of perpetuating myths, have you read the thread on South Carolina? http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-including-e-cig-smoking-ban.html#post2706290
But for now, we probably have more pressing issues. I know you must be swamped with work on Oregon.
The Tobacco Trade Association might not be the ideal reps for the industry, but in my mind these vendors better find some association to support them or in short order they'll be on the outside looking in.
There are certainly other 'manufacturers' other than big tobacco. There's at least 1 brand of cigarettes made in Washington State by a native american tribe. And then you have the "Cheap Cigarettes" chain, where you can go in, buy tobacco, and make your own cigarettes.
Are these a part of this group? You know, I might just email them and ask them what they think about ecigarettes and liquid vendors.
There is a list of Internet trade associations here: Internet Trade Associations and Societies
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