Flat tops work fine and since I use a reusable fuse in my mech, work quite well for me. madvapes has EH flattop 350's for $3.69, I use them and they work fine:
IMR 18350, LiMn 800mAh Battery, Flat Top
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Flat tops work fine and since I use a reusable fuse in my mech, work quite well for me. madvapes has EH flattop 350's for $3.69, I use them and they work fine:
IMR 18350, LiMn 800mAh Battery, Flat Top
My V3 came with trustfire imr 18350, 800 mah, my first top-end variable. I expected more battery life. I charge more than I smoke.
I've come from the Ego-t, and the V3 doesn't last any longer. Is there a better battery? I've read about 18650, 1100 mah. There are efest batteries, also. I did contact the vendor (vapor beast) and ordered two more 18350's by efest.
I stack my trustfires. Logic dictates turing the oled off to conserve power. Any suggestions appreciated.
I've come from the Ego-t, and the V3 doesn't last any longer. Is there a better battery? I've read about 18650, 1100 mah. There are efest batteries, also. I did contact the vendor (vapor beast) and ordered two more 18350's by efest.
I stack my trustfires. Logic dictates turing the oled off to conserve power. Any suggestions appreciated.
First thing is not to trust a battery that has the word "trust" in its' name. At least that's the comments I've seen in other threads and based on test reports on them run by a fried of mine. They don't seem to meet their own specified amp hour ratings.
Next, get a couple of higher capacity IMR or other "unprotected" batteries like Efest, AW or Panasonic. Panasonic is considered the "Rolls" of batteries and are a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Also, invest in a good charger like a Pila or Nitecore.
All that said, I use stacked Efest 18350/800ma and I am a chain vapor. That stack lasts me about 5ml worth, or just about a day (I also use smaller stuff when out and about). I have Efest 18650/2000ma and Panasonic 18650/2800ma batteries that last just as long or longer than the stack.
Next, get a couple of higher capacity IMR or other "unprotected" batteries like Efest, AW or Panasonic. Panasonic is considered the "Rolls" of batteries and are a little more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Also, invest in a good charger like a Pila or Nitecore.
All that said, I use stacked Efest 18350/800ma and I am a chain vapor. That stack lasts me about 5ml worth, or just about a day (I also use smaller stuff when out and about). I have Efest 18650/2000ma and Panasonic 18650/2800ma batteries that last just as long or longer than the stack.
Thanks for that. That charger does seem cheap, I'll get a charger you suggested. I do already have the efest 18350 unprotected batteries coming. Thanks!!
This thread has gotten very long and proper Vamo batteries have been recommended many times.
I figured I'd put a list of high drain batteries in one post for you all.
Max discharge rates listed where available.
18650
Panasonic:
CGR18650CH (2250 mAh 10A)
NCR18650PD (2900 mAh 10A)
AW:
IMR 2000 mAh (10A)
IMR 1600 mAh (24A)
Samsung:
INR18650-20R (2000 mAh 22A)
INR18650-20Q (2000 mAh 15A)
Sony:
US18650VTC3 (1600 mAh 30A)
Efest:
IMR 2250 mAh
IMR 2000 mAh
IMR 1500 mAh
18350
AW:
IMR 700 mAh (6A)
Efest:
IMR 800 mAh V2 button top
IMR 800 mAh V1 flat top
There are some other based on some of the listed cells and may be others I am unaware of.
Efest is at the bottom of both lists because they don't publish specs.
I figured I'd put a list of high drain batteries in one post for you all.
Max discharge rates listed where available.
18650
Panasonic:
CGR18650CH (2250 mAh 10A)
NCR18650PD (2900 mAh 10A)
AW:
IMR 2000 mAh (10A)
IMR 1600 mAh (24A)
Samsung:
INR18650-20R (2000 mAh 22A)
INR18650-20Q (2000 mAh 15A)
Sony:
US18650VTC3 (1600 mAh 30A)
Efest:
IMR 2250 mAh
IMR 2000 mAh
IMR 1500 mAh
18350
AW:
IMR 700 mAh (6A)
Efest:
IMR 800 mAh V2 button top
IMR 800 mAh V1 flat top
There are some other based on some of the listed cells and may be others I am unaware of.
Efest is at the bottom of both lists because they don't publish specs.
xbassman - my friend that tested the Tustfires also has tested Efests and they have, under computer controlled testing, heavy discharge and recharge cycling, tested above the capacity printed on the batteries, which really surprised me.
Any way to share the results?
The only testing I have seen is here:
Batteries and chargers
The results there are a mixed bag.
The only Efests I have are IMR18350 V2's and my anecdotal impressions pretty much mirror the results he got when compared with my AW's. In that case the Efests were below printed capacity.
I had posted here a while ago, I think, about his battery testing project. Here's the link to his blog where he shows battery test results along with a bunch of other interesting, battery based, projects he's fooling with - http://leosedf.blogspot.com/
Thanks for posting that awesum140!
Reading through some of your friend leosedf's test, they seem to confirm the tests that HKJ has done in the link I provided.
For example: Looking at the Efest IMR 2000 mAh, In both tests it test above capacity. leosedf tested this battery up to 4A, but HKJ took it a little higher and found that performance drops sharply above 5A.
Then if you look at 18350's, the Efest rated below capacity with both testers. Those were test up to 1.6A (leosedf) and 3A (HKJ).
Compare that with HKJ's test of the AW IMR 18350 that tested above capacity up to 5A.
It has been widely reported that AW only buys the highest grade cells for their batteries. As to what grade cells Efest buys, who's to say.
All we can do is look at testing like this and try to make an informed decision.
Maybe I'm off base or missing something here, but P=IE. Given that the voltage of the battery is a nominal 3.7 volts and that most, certainly not all, people vape at five to seven watts, that's less than a two amp draw. Granted, "rush current" might be a little higher, but I don't think it will approach much over five amps and then only for a few milliseconds. There is also "overhead" for the device that has to be considered but I suspect that it is not all that significant when compared to the current required for the coil itself. Even at a full five amps that would be 18.5 watts which would fry just about any atomizer. While testing at higher load rates and the results are interesting and indicate differences in the batteries, the normal current draw while vaping is significantly lower, again unless I'm missing something.
Hey awsum, I didn't say the Efest wouldn't work. I wouldn't have listed it if I thought that.
Now I really don't know how many amps a Vamo needs to draw from a 3.7V battery to achieve 6V. I haven't seen anyone test it either.
Now if you want to use 2A as a baseline HJK put up a comparator on his site that you can put that Efest battery up against many others I listed to see how they will perform.
I think the differences will become more apparent as the batteries age.
Many 18650 choices available pretty cheap.
That all said, my opinion about Efest is skewed a bit by the pair I own.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now I really don't know how many amps a Vamo needs to draw from a 3.7V battery to achieve 6V. I haven't seen anyone test it either.
Now if you want to use 2A as a baseline HJK put up a comparator on his site that you can put that Efest battery up against many others I listed to see how they will perform.
I think the differences will become more apparent as the batteries age.
Many 18650 choices available pretty cheap.
That all said, my opinion about Efest is skewed a bit by the pair I own.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not touting Efest batteries, although I am satisfied with the ones I have. I'm just trying to point out that the "real life" conditions of vaping are nowhere nearly as stressful as a five, eight or ten amp continuous draw. I also have an Orbtronic PD2000, which is actually a Panasonic NCR18650PD, which does perform significantly better when compared to the Efest 18650/2000. Overall, I just think that "splitting hairs" over high current performance isn't really all that productive when high current draw isn't the normal case in vaping and even then it only occurs for seconds at a time, not an hour as on a test platform. I will check later today to see hat my Vamo draws at 6.5 watts (where I normally vape) just for a laugh.
To be honest, I'd like to see testing performed that more closely duplicates the typical use in vaping. A cyclic test at say a two to four amp draw for five to ten seconds followed by a rest period of say thirty seconds to two minutes. That would produce results that are much more accurate to how the batteries are actually used. I'm going to contact my friend and suggest exactly that.
To be honest, I'd like to see testing performed that more closely duplicates the typical use in vaping. A cyclic test at say a two to four amp draw for five to ten seconds followed by a rest period of say thirty seconds to two minutes. That would produce results that are much more accurate to how the batteries are actually used. I'm going to contact my friend and suggest exactly that.
How did vaping go from a substitute for smoking to a hobby and now and all consuming hobby at that??????
I had to run some tests to see what current draw on a Vamo is. These were all done using a single 18650 and I tested with both an Orbtronic PD2000 and an Efest IMR V2 2000mah. I have two Vamos, the older one is a chrome one I got back in February and the newer one is a stainless from FastTech. Results below for those of you interested.
Constant for all tests, readings identical on both Vamos -
7 watts
2.6 ohm atomizer
Efest voltage 3.9 volts
Orbtronic voltage 4.1 volts
Fire button held down until the reading went "steady"
Calculated current for a 3.9 volt battery is ~1.8 amps
Calculated current for a 4.1 volt battery is ~1.7 amps
Newer Vamo -
3.36 amps on the Efest
3.17 amps on the Orbtronic
Older Vamo -
3.38 amps on the Efest
3.01 amps on the Orbtronic
Given the actual current readings, the overhead of the boost circuit is about 1.4 to 1.6 amps, less efficient than I expected, but not all that bad. I will repeat the test using a pair of stacked Efest 18350/800 batteries either tomorrow or Thursday when it's their turn in rotation again. I expect to see a significant drop in the current needed for the boost circuit.
I had to run some tests to see what current draw on a Vamo is. These were all done using a single 18650 and I tested with both an Orbtronic PD2000 and an Efest IMR V2 2000mah. I have two Vamos, the older one is a chrome one I got back in February and the newer one is a stainless from FastTech. Results below for those of you interested.
Constant for all tests, readings identical on both Vamos -
7 watts
2.6 ohm atomizer
Efest voltage 3.9 volts
Orbtronic voltage 4.1 volts
Fire button held down until the reading went "steady"
Calculated current for a 3.9 volt battery is ~1.8 amps
Calculated current for a 4.1 volt battery is ~1.7 amps
Newer Vamo -
3.36 amps on the Efest
3.17 amps on the Orbtronic
Older Vamo -
3.38 amps on the Efest
3.01 amps on the Orbtronic
Given the actual current readings, the overhead of the boost circuit is about 1.4 to 1.6 amps, less efficient than I expected, but not all that bad. I will repeat the test using a pair of stacked Efest 18350/800 batteries either tomorrow or Thursday when it's their turn in rotation again. I expect to see a significant drop in the current needed for the boost circuit.
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Great stuff awsum140!
I also wasn't expecting quite that much overhead.
Do you think you could dial up the watts a bit?
Some of us (like me) never vape at that low level. I am always around 8-10W.
Before I got better at building a coil, I left it at 11W. I was losing a lot of coil heat to my wick.
Believe it or not man, I am right there with you on a lot of points. I don't think you'll notice a lot of difference between the 2 high drain Panasonic bats. (Especially since a lot of the difference in mAh is from rating down to 2.8V) I do, however think you may notice a difference between Panasonic and an Efest if you vape at high levels as I do.
That difference may be negated if cost of batteries come into play, but right now if you can wait 2 weeks for delivery, you can get some Panasonic or Samsung batteries for around $5 ea from Fasttech.
When talking 18350's the difference between the AW and Efest have been apparent from the start. Even more so after 7 months.
I never stack em.....
I also wasn't expecting quite that much overhead.
Do you think you could dial up the watts a bit?
Some of us (like me) never vape at that low level. I am always around 8-10W.
Before I got better at building a coil, I left it at 11W. I was losing a lot of coil heat to my wick.
Believe it or not man, I am right there with you on a lot of points. I don't think you'll notice a lot of difference between the 2 high drain Panasonic bats. (Especially since a lot of the difference in mAh is from rating down to 2.8V) I do, however think you may notice a difference between Panasonic and an Efest if you vape at high levels as I do.
That difference may be negated if cost of batteries come into play, but right now if you can wait 2 weeks for delivery, you can get some Panasonic or Samsung batteries for around $5 ea from Fasttech.
When talking 18350's the difference between the AW and Efest have been apparent from the start. Even more so after 7 months.
I never stack em.....
One comment about stacking. Assuming it is done properly with all the normal precautions, supplying 8.4 to 6.4 volts will result, at least I am pretty sure it will, in much lower overhead since the boost circuit won't really have to do any work at all, in fact it will probably regulate down. Now that's based on a DC model, not the square wave being generated in a Vamo or other similar "mod" in RMS mode. I am a little "...." about my battery rotation system and am using my Orbtronic right now and have to vape through it, then I can test what's going on at stack conditions. The 18350s are sitting in the charger right now. I may have to buy a pair of AWs in 18350 to be able to do a subjective comparison based on what you're saying, but so far, mine, stacked, hold up as long as the 18650/2000 which ain't too bad given the difference in capacity.
In the interest of serving those that vape at higher levels or stack batteries, like, maybe, xbassman, I re-ran the tests using stacked Efest 18350/800 at seven watts and again at ten watts. I also ran a quick test with an Efest 18650/2000 at ten watts. All testing was done on the chrome Vamo I got back in February. (PS - that really dry burned a T3 head for me, LOL)
Constants -
Stacked voltage - 8.3 volts
Atomizer resistance 2.7 ohms
Calculated current at 7 watts - ~.84 amps
Calculated current at 10 watts - ~1.2 amps
Stack at 7 watts - 1.02 amps
Stack at 10 watts - 1.53 amps
18650/2000 at 10 watts - 3.76 amps
Calculated current at 10 watts(3.8 volt supplied) - ~2.63 amps
The overhead for a stack is dramatically lower than it is for a single battery as I suspected. This seems to validate that the boost circuit is the consumer of that additional current. The ratio is around 3:1 in terms of current consumption which would make a stack of 800mah batteries perform like they're a 2400mah single. And I violated my battery rotation scheme to do this...what will happen now????The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Constants -
Stacked voltage - 8.3 volts
Atomizer resistance 2.7 ohms
Calculated current at 7 watts - ~.84 amps
Calculated current at 10 watts - ~1.2 amps
Stack at 7 watts - 1.02 amps
Stack at 10 watts - 1.53 amps
18650/2000 at 10 watts - 3.76 amps
Calculated current at 10 watts(3.8 volt supplied) - ~2.63 amps
The overhead for a stack is dramatically lower than it is for a single battery as I suspected. This seems to validate that the boost circuit is the consumer of that additional current. The ratio is around 3:1 in terms of current consumption which would make a stack of 800mah batteries perform like they're a 2400mah single. And I violated my battery rotation scheme to do this...what will happen now????The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
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I've been using the generic ICR 18350s that I received with my used V2 a week or so ago.
They work but not for long. I almost always had one charging while I used the other.
They're also not the right kind (instead of IMR) to boot but I was careful.
They're getting stuck in the drawer with a 4v charge for emergency only backup duty.
I received my AW IMR 18650 2000mah in the mail today and took an hour or so to fully charge.
I swapped it in @ 4:30 and it'll be my sole use battery until it needs a charge.
I'll use the 18350s while it recharges until I get my V2/Panny/Nitecore kit.
rinse/repeat
I'm really just documenting this to see how long the AW's charge will actually last with my habits.
They work but not for long. I almost always had one charging while I used the other.
They're also not the right kind (instead of IMR) to boot but I was careful.
They're getting stuck in the drawer with a 4v charge for emergency only backup duty.
I received my AW IMR 18650 2000mah in the mail today and took an hour or so to fully charge.
I swapped it in @ 4:30 and it'll be my sole use battery until it needs a charge.
I'll use the 18350s while it recharges until I get my V2/Panny/Nitecore kit.
rinse/repeat
I'm really just documenting this to see how long the AW's charge will actually last with my habits.
Not sure if there is anyone else out there doing so, and call me an idiot or just someone living on the edge a bit, but I am running AW Protected 18650 Li-Ion's in my Vamo. Specifically the flat top, black, 2600 mAh batteries. Yes I know that they are NOT recommended and some have said that they will not work but I am going on 6-7 weeks using them without any problems whatsoever.
I bought these 2 cells about 2-3 years ago for a small but mighty LED flashlight I purchased. I also purchased a Pila charger at the same time as both the batts and charger were some of the best available at the time.
My Pila terminates charging at about 4.12v and has since day one. I am running my protank with 2.5 ohm coil at about 6 watts...anything more and I get dry/burnt hits with the juice I'm running. After two days on one battery and burning through approx. 4-6ml of juice, I am usually sitting at around 3.8v average which is when I swap out cells and recharge. Really I could probably get another day or so before recharging but I would prefer to maximize my battery life.
Again I haven't encountered any problems. Battery doesn't get more than just barely warmer than room temp (after heavy vaping), cell protection has never kicked in, and the Vamo protection has never enabled itself. In fact my flashlight seems to put a much higher load on these cells than anything.
I do understand that IMR cells are generally a safer chemistry, but running protected cells and also with the protected circuitry in the Vamo, I am seeing no issues. Why is it that everyone says Li-Ions are a huge no-no in the Vamo? I guess if you are running 1 ohm coils at 15 watts it may be an issue but I think even then it likely wouldn't.
BTW, I am only talking about 18650's and not the smaller 18350s as I understand that those MAY cause problems with higher amperage delivery.
I bought these 2 cells about 2-3 years ago for a small but mighty LED flashlight I purchased. I also purchased a Pila charger at the same time as both the batts and charger were some of the best available at the time.
My Pila terminates charging at about 4.12v and has since day one. I am running my protank with 2.5 ohm coil at about 6 watts...anything more and I get dry/burnt hits with the juice I'm running. After two days on one battery and burning through approx. 4-6ml of juice, I am usually sitting at around 3.8v average which is when I swap out cells and recharge. Really I could probably get another day or so before recharging but I would prefer to maximize my battery life.
Again I haven't encountered any problems. Battery doesn't get more than just barely warmer than room temp (after heavy vaping), cell protection has never kicked in, and the Vamo protection has never enabled itself. In fact my flashlight seems to put a much higher load on these cells than anything.
I do understand that IMR cells are generally a safer chemistry, but running protected cells and also with the protected circuitry in the Vamo, I am seeing no issues. Why is it that everyone says Li-Ions are a huge no-no in the Vamo? I guess if you are running 1 ohm coils at 15 watts it may be an issue but I think even then it likely wouldn't.
BTW, I am only talking about 18650's and not the smaller 18350s as I understand that those MAY cause problems with higher amperage delivery.
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