The Wizard - Why not?

[nicotime]

Looks like the fluid is being heated by the metal tube and percolating up to a hotter element at the glass tube to vaporize it. Three wire connections must be two separate coils being heated. That thin of wire would still get hot right?

Also....are you sure it the glass tube expanding more than the metal and not the other way around. Could it be designed to make a smaller gap between tubes when cooler to keep some slight pressure in the metal tube? Where did the red and white wire at the top go?

 

[Charged]

Yea the wire could get hot when carrying current, but it's not making sense. And why is the small wire not soldered at the bottom of the tube where the lead wire is soldered. I can just pull that small wire out of the O'ring. This tells me the small wire is not really ment to carry current or to heat. I'm just trying to justify what that small wire is for. So far I see no purpose except to provide an air gap between the metal and glass tube. At 1st I thought maybe as the tube expanded and contracted the wire would make/break connection across the tube, but that's not making a lot of sense either since it's not soldered at the bottom.

 

[nicotime]

Huh...You think it may be like a safety wire to keep anything from falling out if the tubes break?

 

[butchrobotpope]

@Charged: Every time I read about a new mystery with this thing, I can't help but wonder about the designers of the W.S. I know nothing about electrical work, but it might be worthwhile to approach your study from a 'reverse engineering' perspective.

What I mean is, it seems that whoever put this together was aiming for a child's toy. And they were probably adapting the design from another toy (the ray gun thingy, maybe?). In turn, that design was probably lifted from an "industrial" grade product. If it was mass-produced in Asia, it probably was done with the minimum costs possible and the cheapest labor.

I know, none of that is genius-level insight, but it was on my mind. I am really curious about the way it's put together - I can't wait until your next breakthrough.


@SurfVortex: I actually spent last night & this morning re-reading the whole thread. I had to check on a few things before I placed my order. My plan is to be super-vigilant about it when it arrives. I already have a good protocol in place for my regular pv stuff, so... We'll see, I guess.

 

[Charged]

I hear ya butch I was thinking the same thing. This is for sure some adaptation of another device. There is a complete section of the circuit board with missing components and connection points that are not used in this design.

I have noticed another thing. The metal tube is almost self regulating. As I increase the voltage across it the current is dropping (resistance is increasing). Similar to a tungsten filament. I know nichrome has similar characteristics but not to this extreme. For the heck of it, I just kept cranking the voltage up and viewed small blue sparks (sparkles) jumping around on the outer surface of the metal tube and then a pinhole developed in the center of the tube at which time I stopped. I was up around 22 volts and 0.5 amps. So if you look 10V @ 1Amp = 10Watts, 22V @ 0.5Amps = 11 Watts. That looks very close to power regulation to me.

Later today (it's 3AM now LOL) I'll get some thermal images and see if I can explain this a little better.

 

[Big Daddy]

Just ordered one , Thanks for all the info. Charged and please keep it coming.

 

[TonyLoco2]

Hey Charged, first off amazing thread. Immensely thorough and useful.

I'm not going to pretend to be too knowledgeable on the subject but I have started taking on battery mods and I know there's an ongoing thing about finding new atomiser deigns. i had a couple questions, would you attribute vapor production on this to the atomiser design, voltage, deliver system or...? Also have you found it to be more durable or have a Potentially longer lifespan that the average pv atomiser? If so any ideaas to why?

In either event I look forward to seeing you unravel it's wizrding mysteries lol

Thanks again

 

[nicotime]

Charged...I found this today and it may be similar to what you have there. Cant see the pic very well unless you register, but in reading the description it uses a coaxial heating tube. What is the OD of the tubes...might not be big enough for that?

Vapor generator wand - US Patent 5559923 Full Text

Here...the pdf...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5559923.pdf

The unused circuit on the board could be for their other fog toys that have sound and fans too. They all look like the same base is used.

Oh...and I looked at the previous threads and answered my question about the other wires sticking out...forgot about the LED.

 

[Charged]

Hey Charged, first off amazing thread. Immensely thorough and useful.

I'm not going to pretend to be too knowledgeable on the subject but I have started taking on battery mods and I know there's an ongoing thing about finding new atomiser deigns. i had a couple questions, would you attribute vapor production on this to the atomiser design, voltage, deliver system or...? Also have you found it to be more durable or have a Potentially longer lifespan that the average pv atomiser? If so any ideaas to why?

In either event I look forward to seeing you unravel it's wizrding mysteries lol

Thanks again

Good questions Tony, 1st off the reason I wanted to explore this device is exactly what you are leaning towards. The present methods of atomization are lacking in many respects. I'll try to answer your questions from my perspective.

1. I attribute atomizer design as paramount to the vapor production on this device. You can connect any battery you want to the atomizer and you will get vapor.
2. From what I've learned there are 2 players in this that make it great. One is the fluid delivery method. Using air to force the liquid through the heating tube is brilliant and well thought out. The second is the heating method. Using the liquid delivery tube as the heating method is also a really good idea.

Now I have to tell the bad part. The way this works from what I have seen is, the glass tube at the end of the heater forms a seal when the tube is heated. The only thing that can escape from this tube during heating is the FOG, or our beloved vapor. Because the way it is designed after a while it will develope a film between the metal tube and the glass tube (hardened E-juice). As the tube cools the liquid hardens in layers as it flows back to the liquid chamber. Eventually you will have no path for the FOG to exit the heating chamber.

The short term method to fix this is to fill the liquid chamber with distilled vinegar and soak the tube upside down in a glass of vinegar. Unfortunately as I said it will be short lived as it will clog again.

The easiest way to eliminate the clog issue is to crack the glass tube forming the seal. I've only recently tried this but so far it seems to resolve the clogging issue, but it makes it a bit more difficult to control the amount of vapor exiting the tube when you apply pressure.

Nico:
Nice find on the patent. I looked it over and the design is very similar. I still think the wizard tube has some great modding potential if we can better understand how to make it work for us.

 

[nicotime]

I did a mock up with a hypodermic needle and hooked the teflon tubing I use for cart plugs to the end, then clipped top and bottom of the needle with the battery wires. Pumped some PG thru it and it was spittin and sputterin like crazy. Does have potential...I noticed they used 5 volts at 3 amps too. Maybe a hybrid will be the answer. Like you say...eminent failure for as is.....unless of course you guy throw a little vinegar in your juice...YUMMY.

 

[SurfVortex]

Hybridizing this atomizer will be AWESOME!!! Thanks Nico, for all of the splendid input. The hypo needle is stainless steel?

Charged, you are Charging! Thanks, Again!
Cracking the glass of the first tube sounds like the wiz would need another upside down soak to remove possible chards....
Why does it need 2 glass tubes? Are they protecting the wire as well as making a fog-seal? Would the wires corrode quickly in the damp environment if they were just exposed? So many questions....Glad there are those around here with some technical know-how.
Got my second Wizard broken in.....So Happy! Gonna be more vigilent about juice type and cleaning regimens, until the unraveling of the clogging mysteries!

 

[nicotime]

Thanks Surf...yeah its Stainless. I might fire up my MSC Industrial account and order some different sizes of SS and brass capillary tubing to play with. God that company loves me!

 

[SurfVortex]

Heh Heh Heh.....Rubbing hands together, wild roving eyes...

 

[nicotime]

Haha..exactly Surf...now if I can only get this damn doll I have wired up here to come to life like that movie Weird Science. All I get is FIRE! lol

 

[Charged]

LOL nico your killing me, hope you have 911 on your speed dial.

I think cracking the glass tube is a major fix for this thing. It's been 2 days now and I've run some pretty thick juice through and it's working really well so far. Considering it was clogged totally shut when I started it's definitely something to try if all else fails.

 

[nicotime]

Hey Charged,,do you have a mic to dimension the atomizer? I would love to put this thing on AutoCad...much easier to play with that way.

Oh and by the way, I have a fire station within a stones throw away...(note to self, send payment for broken window due to testing)...that could be here in minutes. LOL

 

[Charged]

Dimensions are in mm.
Nico PM me your email if you want the .dwg file.

 

[nicotime]

You got all OD & ID's on it too?

Hope that aint inches. lol

 

[nicotime]

Hmmm... at .066" OD and probably a .005" wall thickness, the ID of the metal tube would be around .035". The glass tube must be about .030" OD and has got to have a thicker wall...say like .010", leaving about a .010-.015" ID unless that's some seriously thin sheeeit. How thick is the lead wire at the top? I dont suppose you can get to the tube of a functioning one to run a torch tip cleaner or wire through to clean it. Is the lead wire soldered to the metal tube? The other thin wire has got to be a safety feature in case the tube malfunctions an melts itself loose flying out and burning somebody...thats the only reason I can see.

 

[SurfVortex]

Hey Charged, are we just talking about bending the little glass tube until it cracks? Right at the top of the metal tube? That seems to me a lovely idea... Will do it tomorrow(need sleep now,zzzzzz), and share results!

Nico, just put a ring of bricks around the projects and call it a control burn!