They are not mis-infromed, that is the whole point. the only mis-information put out wrt ecigs is from the Health Organizations. My Doctor will not take a position perse but she does endorse vaping over smoking.
They ain't done yet!
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Its neither, they just want your money.
No different than you or me really, except I think we are both willing to work for it, rather than extort it from people.
No different than a low life drug dealer who preys off others addition. Nice to know who is really running the country and the corporations isn't it?
Only way we have to fight back is to hold them accountable on this one. They don't have an excuse to tax this like a sin and enjoy the free ride.
From Bill....
I'm not an attorney, but its my understanding that Judge Leon's preliminary injunction ruling nearly a year ago (that was upheld last month by the DC Court of Appeals) prohibiting the FDA from seizing/blocking e-cigarette shipments as the case continues to be considered by the court only applies to products of Smoking Everywhere and njoy (the two plaintiffs at that time, although SE has subsequently withdrawn).
I also believe that any other e-cigarette company that wants its shipments similarly protected by the court would have to petition to intervene in the lawsuit.
But if the FDA continues trying to block/seize e-cigarette shipments, it will make it easier for us to convince Republicans in Congress to investigate the FDA's outrageous waste, fraud and abuse.
To put it in a Canadian perspective. The US customs are nothing. For that one order they stopped there are 1,000 more getting through. As bad as it is, they have it easy.
For Canadians, as we well know as mentioned here recently we have HC/CC cutting into and holding for a time, packages of adaptors!! A simple piece of threaded metal with no use of its own. They have no lawful excuse to detain it for any length of time, but they do anyhow.
For Canadians, as we well know as mentioned here recently we have HC/CC cutting into and holding for a time, packages of adaptors!! A simple piece of threaded metal with no use of its own. They have no lawful excuse to detain it for any length of time, but they do anyhow.
Absolutely true, but lately they have gone to the gym and are flexing their muscles even more. Contraband will always leak through. Nonetheless, they have stepped up their seizures, just to be a holes about it.
So I was in the sandblasting booth at work today and I usually get to thinking when I'm in there, today was no different. I got to thinking about all the opposition to vaping and then I got to thinking about the company Nicorette. As much as I wouldn't like to say it, I can see why they (Nicorette) would be rather angry about e-cigs, and it's not just to do with lost profits. Heres a company that has everything out there they could think of in the way of NRTs but they know it's not gonna work for most people. They have gum, lozenges, patches, and even an inhaler shaped quite similarily to a tampon. And the reason they dont work is, nothing that they make has more than 4mg of nicotine per dose as required by law (cant remember where I read that). So there they are playing by the rules even though it makes their product nearly useless when along come e-cigs. Now people are literally taking as much nicotine as they want and all these e-cig companies just kinda said to heck with the rules. It would be like taking a number and waiting in line just to have someone walk up to the front and cut in. That would make me a little angry too 
Nothing at all against e-cigs I'm quite in love with them, just thinking out loud. Feel free to correct me if I've said something totally incorrect.
Nothing at all against e-cigs I'm quite in love with them, just thinking out loud. Feel free to correct me if I've said something totally incorrect.
Ya nailed it Tim! It's about money, nothing else. It is always about money. Money talks and BS walks. Regardless which you dice and slice it, at the end of the day the common denominator is...? Money!
The issue is that it was the drug companies (maker of nicorette) who set those rules, HC didn't pick the number out of the sky. You can't feel for someone who trips and falls on their own weapon.
Why? Because they want you to fail. If you quit smoking the 1st try, you will never be their customer again. If it takes you 5 tries, that means THEY MAKE 5X's THE PROFIT.. Each time you fail and try again, it DOUBLES their profits. The less effective their product, the more they make, simple as that, which is the real reason behind the low limit.
Now the other point you bring up. E-cig companies are offering 10Xs the dose strength, which is ignoring all rules. Well sometimes rules are meant to be broken… We broke this one, and what happened, we found that a higher does isn't fatal, and darn it, it works!! The drug companies already new this, they just didn't want you to find out as that would ruin their "profit by failure" model.
Also I can walk into the corner store, and buy 100 pounds of chewing tobacco with enough nicotine to kill a moose, this isn't regulated, heck they don't even tell you how much nicotine is in the stuff.
Didn't really think of that one, I don't feel a bit sorry for them now. Profit by failure, that ticks me off! And to think I gave them $32 for that pack of nasty gum! I hope they choked on the profits
To put it in perspective, could someone break that down for an idiot like me? Like if I were vaping 3 mL of 24mg per day, or wearing a high strength nicotine patch (15mg according to my search?) for 24 hours, or chewing 10 pieces of 4mg nic gum, how much nicotine would I be getting for each?
What Can_supplier said, exactly. NRT makers don't want their products to succeed. They just want to sucker people into trying - failing - and blaming themselves, so that they'll keep coming back for another try (which will also inevitably end in failure).
For the record though re: nic levels...I have here a box of NicoDerm Step One patches (which I'll never open or use), got 'em from the doc only a day before I heard of vaping. It says on the box that each patch contains 114mg of nicotine, and "releases a controlled 1.5mg per hour for 24 hours with systemic delivery of 21mg/day."
- One tobacco cigarette on average contains about 10mg of nic but delivers only 1mg (most of it is burned off in the combustion process as well as drifts off in secondhand smoke).
- One NRT patch (as shown above) delivers up to 21mg of nic a day.
- One mL of my favourite e-juice delivers 18mg of nic.
So yes. Tobacco, NRT & e-juice all contain comparable levels of the exact same nicotine. Especially given the typical consumption patterns of all three.
---
IT'S NOT JUST THE NIC
What most people fail to realize is that when you quit smoking, it's not just about the nicotine. It's the hand-to-mouth habit; playing with the smoke (or vapour, in our case); the recreational satisfaction. We all knew smoking was killing us, but the truth of the matter is that there was an element of satisfaction from the experience overall, not just the nic.
NRT delivers nic, but does nothing to address your former smoking habit...and it is not recreationally satisfying. This is why NRT has a 90 to 95% failure rate. And the further along you go, their failure rate gets even worse. I can't remember the exact source at the moment, but I saw a survey once which indicated that by the time a smoker reaches the 20 month mark from their attempted quit date, NRT methods had failed 98% of the time to prevent a return to smoking. Completely dismal.
This is also why vaping is so incredibly effective. It works to address & replace every aspect of your former smoking habit. There was nothing wrong with your habit - the problem was, are you satisfying it with a deadly smoke, or with a safe, clean vapour? A good analogy is there's nothing wrong with habitually enjoying a glass of orange juice each morning. Drink a glass of orange juice brimming with poison though...and you have a problem, lol. The point being, your morning habit isn't the problem.
The only difference really that we vapers have now is instead of a deadly smoke...we're now getting a safe, clean vapour. (And a tasty vapour!) If anything, vaping is much more satisfying than smoking ever was. No more filthy-smelling clothes & apartment, no more stained walls; no more nasty smoker's breath. No more cancer!
---
So yeah Tim...I feel no sympathy for NRT makers. They purposely made an ineffective product, purposely misrepresented its effectiveness, purposely hid its dismal failure rate...& bilked it for years. Their profits were reaped from human suffering...suffering they helped to extend & perpetuate.
Now that vaping has been invented, they can't cry foul just because it works. Eventually, once knowledge of vaping reaches critical mass, people will simply no longer buy NRT. They'll vape. Pharmaceutical companies are rich as hell though, so they'll be fine.
Anyone with stock in NRT specifically would be advised to move their money to something with a profitable future...like Tim Hortons.
For the record though re: nic levels...I have here a box of NicoDerm Step One patches (which I'll never open or use), got 'em from the doc only a day before I heard of vaping. It says on the box that each patch contains 114mg of nicotine, and "releases a controlled 1.5mg per hour for 24 hours with systemic delivery of 21mg/day."
- One tobacco cigarette on average contains about 10mg of nic but delivers only 1mg (most of it is burned off in the combustion process as well as drifts off in secondhand smoke).
- One NRT patch (as shown above) delivers up to 21mg of nic a day.
- One mL of my favourite e-juice delivers 18mg of nic.
So yes. Tobacco, NRT & e-juice all contain comparable levels of the exact same nicotine. Especially given the typical consumption patterns of all three.
---
IT'S NOT JUST THE NIC
What most people fail to realize is that when you quit smoking, it's not just about the nicotine. It's the hand-to-mouth habit; playing with the smoke (or vapour, in our case); the recreational satisfaction. We all knew smoking was killing us, but the truth of the matter is that there was an element of satisfaction from the experience overall, not just the nic.
NRT delivers nic, but does nothing to address your former smoking habit...and it is not recreationally satisfying. This is why NRT has a 90 to 95% failure rate. And the further along you go, their failure rate gets even worse. I can't remember the exact source at the moment, but I saw a survey once which indicated that by the time a smoker reaches the 20 month mark from their attempted quit date, NRT methods had failed 98% of the time to prevent a return to smoking. Completely dismal.
This is also why vaping is so incredibly effective. It works to address & replace every aspect of your former smoking habit. There was nothing wrong with your habit - the problem was, are you satisfying it with a deadly smoke, or with a safe, clean vapour? A good analogy is there's nothing wrong with habitually enjoying a glass of orange juice each morning. Drink a glass of orange juice brimming with poison though...and you have a problem, lol. The point being, your morning habit isn't the problem.
The only difference really that we vapers have now is instead of a deadly smoke...we're now getting a safe, clean vapour. (And a tasty vapour!) If anything, vaping is much more satisfying than smoking ever was. No more filthy-smelling clothes & apartment, no more stained walls; no more nasty smoker's breath. No more cancer!
---
So yeah Tim...I feel no sympathy for NRT makers. They purposely made an ineffective product, purposely misrepresented its effectiveness, purposely hid its dismal failure rate...& bilked it for years. Their profits were reaped from human suffering...suffering they helped to extend & perpetuate.
Now that vaping has been invented, they can't cry foul just because it works. Eventually, once knowledge of vaping reaches critical mass, people will simply no longer buy NRT. They'll vape. Pharmaceutical companies are rich as hell though, so they'll be fine.
Anyone with stock in NRT specifically would be advised to move their money to something with a profitable future...like Tim Hortons.
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3ml x 24mg x 16hrs/24 hrs (.66) = 47.5mg nic. 15mg for patch and 10 x 4 x .66 = 26.4mg 40mg
The avg cigarette delivers between 1-2mg per cig or 50mg per pack.
The avg cigarette delivers between 1-2mg per cig or 50mg per pack.
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I stand corrected on an earlier post, seems the US suppliers are getting hammered by the FDA right now with seized shipments.... I worry that it could be foreshadowing...
Rob,
I am ...... as as any other vaper when I read the news. However I do report it as it is, because what goes on south of the border affects us as well, in the long run. Many order from the States, short supplies in the States = a shortness of supply here as well, albeit many many make it through. I only post in order to offer some perspective as to what is going on, and how it may/can affect us all. That is why I wasn't overly enthusiastic with the latest court decision. A decision that was indeed in our favour, but a decision that meant nothing as a whole nonetheless.
I am ...... as as any other vaper when I read the news. However I do report it as it is, because what goes on south of the border affects us as well, in the long run. Many order from the States, short supplies in the States = a shortness of supply here as well, albeit many many make it through. I only post in order to offer some perspective as to what is going on, and how it may/can affect us all. That is why I wasn't overly enthusiastic with the latest court decision. A decision that was indeed in our favour, but a decision that meant nothing as a whole nonetheless.
Yes it is. That's is because people were mis-informed or only chose to believe what they wanted to believe. That being said, we are not lawyer, so points of law are not easily comprehensible to many, myself included.
But we are citizens of an alleged democracy - so points of civil and regulatory law can be changed and rearranged when push comes to shove (and when we really shove).
If we don't push and shove those points of law could dribble down into criminal law and then we'd all be up the same creek as contraband cigarette sales (which is just criminalizing cigarettes that aren't paying huge taxes).
So guys - push and shove! After the FDA loss - HC has real motivation to push for re-defining legislation - and they will if there is no pushing back.
3rd post tonite+3rd post in this thread,
i posted a similar post in here a few 4 days ago!
all i wanted to add is kanadiankat is absolutly 100% correct!
if anybody is serious,scared or worried about the future of ecigs in canada!please let yourselfs be heard!!
call your mla.s,+ all proper venues of provincial+federal gov.
send emails,snail mail do what ever you can.
this will work! but its by numbers, big ones,
if all the canadian vapors and wannbes or supporters ,what have you,
did this we would see a change. really!
no one else is gonna do it for you no one.
tha more the merrier ! (vapin that iz!)
i think theres a thread or something for contact info? no???
we mayb should get 1 !
and as kat so eloquently voiced.
push and shove people
push and shove
RANT ON VAPO RANT ON !
vapo is not runnin 4 office ,not gonna do it, no way!
i posted a similar post in here a few 4 days ago!
all i wanted to add is kanadiankat is absolutly 100% correct!
if anybody is serious,scared or worried about the future of ecigs in canada!please let yourselfs be heard!!
call your mla.s,+ all proper venues of provincial+federal gov.
send emails,snail mail do what ever you can.
this will work! but its by numbers, big ones,
if all the canadian vapors and wannbes or supporters ,what have you,
did this we would see a change. really!
no one else is gonna do it for you no one.
tha more the merrier ! (vapin that iz!)
i think theres a thread or something for contact info? no???
we mayb should get 1 !
and as kat so eloquently voiced.
push and shove people
push and shove
RANT ON VAPO RANT ON !vapo is not runnin 4 office ,not gonna do it, no way!
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E-cigarette sales are growing 7 percent annually, while tobacco cigarette sales are down 17 percent, according to reports by the Chicago Tribune. The rest of the article...
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2011/012011/01232011/591123/index_html?page=1
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2011/012011/01232011/591123/index_html?page=1
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