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Thinkng about building a VV Bottom Feeder and ???

Discussion in 'Bottom Feeder Mods' started by MickeyRat, Jun 5, 2011.

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  1. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    Hi there, I'm in the process of deciding how I'm going to build a VV bottom feeder and I'd like a little advice. Cost is a factor but, it's not a big factor. If I end up paying $25 for a component that serves the same purpose as a $9 component but, the more expensive component performs better, I'm okay with that. Size does count. I'll be buying the smallest box that will suit the situation after I determine the components. My goal here is to take my time gather the right components and make something I'll be able to use for a long time. I have other things to do and I'm trying to get this right so, it'll probably be a while before it's built.

    I have some 18350 batteries that I'm not doing anything with and I plan to use two those in series for power. Right now I'm leaning towards an OKR-T regulator. However, I keep reading about boost and regulation and I'm a little confused. I will be vaping between 4 and 5 volts most of the time. So, two 18350s will supply ample voltage until they are discharged. Is there any advantage to boosting in this situation? If so, a pointer to a good thread with a wiring diagram will be appreciated.

    The next question has to do with the feeding system. I have seen and made a couple that have a tube protruding into the atomizer. They work well and they don't backfeed but, I really want something that will allow me to put adapters on the connector which means a fixed tube is out. I understand that I can make the tube flush with the bottom of the connector if I use a one way valve. I've found some that I think will work at Cole-Parmer. If I do that, I'll need to get air back into the bottle. A tee with another valve will work for that but, I'm hoping some of you have a better suggestion.

    I have some ideas on how to do it but, any advice on battery connectors for those 18350s would be appreciated as well.

    I will probably be putting in a voltmeter as well but, that's not for sure. It sort of depends on the box layout.

    I'm open to suggestions. Have I said anything wrong? Is there anything I can do better?

    Whether I get any answers or not, I do want everyone on here to know that I've learned a ton reading about your experiences and I really appreciate you posting and look forward to reading more.
     
  2. bstedh

    bstedh Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2011
    Northern Minnesota
    IMO your big decision will be if you want to use 1 or 2 batteries.

    If you only want to use 1 battery the Buck/Boost circuit is the way to go.

    If you want to use 2 batteries then the OKR switching regulator is the way to go.

    Also some things to keep in mind are that the Buck boos will require a few more components than the OKR and you may want to consider voltage level indicator LED's instead of a full blown meter circuit.

    These are just some things to consider when making your decision.
     
  3. Dalton63841

    Dalton63841 Moved On

    Feb 14, 2011
    Maine
    For size I would suggest using one battery with a ptn04050C booster. If you were using a 3xAA box you could use one battery slot for the battery, one for the circuitry, and one for the bottle of liquid. Of course you will need something else to fit 18350's.
     
  4. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    This is exactly the kind of discussion I hoped to have.

    The 18350s haven't even been used. I have 3 pairs. They're actually pretty small and would go side by side in the bottom of a relatively small box. I've been considering putting them up in classifieds.

    I may have given the wrong impression. I'm not planning on trying to cram this into a three battery AA box. I just don't want something the size of a coke can ether. It needs to be able to fit in a shirt pocket comfortably. I really don't want to go with a single 14500. I'm using a mod with one of those now and I'd like to have more MAH.

    So, to make sure I have the answer right, boost only makes sense when I need the voltage boosted. I don't need it, if I can supply the voltage with the batteries. The three battery box is tempting for a backup though. I might even be able to retrofit the one I'm using now. :)

    Tell me more about the voltage level indicator LED's. I know what they are but, I have no clue how to wire them. Is there a unit that provides this function like the voltmeter from madvapes?
     
  5. Dalton63841

    Dalton63841 Moved On

    Feb 14, 2011
    Maine
    I didn't mean you would use a 3xAA box, just explaining as an example. IF you want real VV you will need to boost if you only use one battery. If you use 2 batteries in series, then an adjustable voltage regulator would be in order.

    The boost chip allows you to put in 3.7v and get out ~4v-6v. The adjustable voltage regulator allows you to put in ~8v(2 in series) and get out 3.7-6v. For obvious reasons to make things as small as possible one battery with a booster is preferable, but if the batteries are small and long life is important, then the adjustable regulator is better.
     
  6. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    Thanks for the reply. Sounds like I got it right.

    It is a bit of a dilemma. If I didn't already have those batteries, I probably wouldn't consider using them. I'd be going with an 18650. Maybe two. OTOH they are actually a pretty nice size. Very near the size of a 6ml juice bottle below the threads. Just a couple ml bigger in diameter. If I can figure out how to mount them, they should work well and not take up too much real estate. So, I'm probably going with two batteries.
     
  7. bstedh

    bstedh Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2011
    Northern Minnesota
    You could also go with two of those batteries in parallel and use the booster for increased mah. Either way I think your usable vape time wouldn't change much with either circuit. The biggest factor will be which one is more efficient. The amount of energy available is constant, set by the batteries ratting.

    For a simple voltage indicator you would just use a zener diode and LED. The zener would only conduct at it's specified voltage. So a 4V zener for full charge indication and 3.6V for mid charge and 3.4V for ready to be re-charged. Or any combination that fits what you want. The LED's would just shut off as the voltage drops past the zener's rated voltage.
     
  8. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    Well going parallel would solve the problem of one battery draining more than the other in series. I'm not sure that's worth the trouble though. Thanks for the tip on the leds. I might do it. Those kinds of features will be decided at box layout but, it's something I haven't seen on a homemade mod before.
     
  9. mwa102464

    mwa102464 Resting In Peace ECF Veteran

    I would like to see one of these VV Mods built with an AW 26500 since it's such a strong, small, powerful Batt with a booster !
     
  10. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    Those are pretty big around. Making space for something like that is going to be a problem.
     
  11. breaktru

    breaktru Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    One 18650 and a PTN04050 works fantastic. I have it in a tube but this case from Madvapes fits the 18650 pertectly on one side and room for the circuitry on the other.
    [​IMG]

    P.S., they come in 3 transparent colors
     
  12. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    I actually have a couple of those cases. I just did a little looking and I think you solved one of my problems though perhaps not the one you had in mind. If I cut out the reinforcement doodad in the bottom corner on either end of that box, two of those 18350s will stack perfectly. So, I think I've found my battery mount. I like the extra protection from juice for the circuitry too. THANKS!!!

    I'm hearing the boost is good and it works perfectly and I don't doubt it. However, the only advantage I see with going that way is that I can use one battery. However, I have the batteries and they take up about the same room. Is there a reason to go with boost that I'm missing?

    Actually, if I do this right and use one of those boxes, I could just switch out the box later, if I decided to go single cell and boost. Maybe even put an RCA connector on it and make it modular. :) I meant that to be a joke but, now I'm actually considering it. :) Lot of real estate though.

    Excellent input and exactly what I was hoping for on the electronics. Thanks so much. Keep it coming. No decisions carved in stone yet.

    No one's commenting on the feeding system anyone see a problem with what I have in mind working with adapters? Would I be better served giving up on that and making a box with a 901 and a box with a 510? There's a big disadvantage with that but, it's better than making one box that doesn't work at all.
     
  13. asdaq

    asdaq Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mickey, if you want to use the 18350's then I would use 2 with a nice regulator, much like you have in mind. With longevity, they really aren't much different than 14500's, but stacking 2 makes a more compact package, just a bit longer than a 18650.

    With the bottom feeding, you could use an adapter if the feed tube has an adapter too. For example, your mod has a 510 connector and a 16G needle section for the feed tube, going however high you like it. When you add the 901 adapter you add a longer section of 18G needle tubing which fits nice inside the 16G and makes up the needed extra height. A slight crimp in the 16G will make sure it doesn't go too far in. I've done something like this for semi-auto feeding and using cartos or atties and the needle adapter worked well.

    Hop this heelps :)
     
  14. bstedh

    bstedh Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2011
    Northern Minnesota
    I have no experience with juice feeders but from what I have looked at hear on the forum you could probably use one of the bottles that use a replaceable needle tip and modify a bottle tube. That way you could make the mod with a 510 connector and then have two feeder needles. One fit for the 510 and one a little longer to reach up into a 901 adapter screwed onto the 510 connector. Or just make two separate feeder bottles.

    I am a big fan of adapters. =]
     
  15. breaktru

    breaktru Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Yes the two 18350's fit end to end. You would have to squeeze in a neg and pos metal strip for contact points, but it can be done.

    I misread your intent about the batteries sorry, Yes two 18350's with a PTR08100w or PTR08060W or OKR-T would be a great mod
     
  16. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    Asdaq that suggestion of running an 18 ga. needle inside a 16 ga. needle is very intriguing especially since the 16 ga. doesn't quite fit in the end of some of the 901s I have. I wonder if I could use a luer lock fitting to the end of a 16 ga. syringe needle and mount a cut off 18 ga. needle in the fitting. The needles I get at TSC say they are luer lock and that would prevent any juice from leaking down between the needles. It would also provide a solid mount for the 18 ga. needle. When I want to switch, just switch to the luer lock fitting with the appropriate length 18 ga. needle too. Cole-Parmer has the fittings. I like it. :) Looks like I have some experimenting to do unless someone knows of a better solution.

    breakthru please don't apologize. I'm grateful for the responses and even if you misunderstand and suggest something you wouldn't otherwise suggest, your answers to my questions provide me with a much needed education and help me make the right decision. Besides this probably won't be the last mod I build. Whatever you suggest is likely to be useful for the next one.

    I've about decided on an OKR-T regulator but, I still have a few more questions. The first about caps. I will be putting the switch on the positive leg of the regulator rather than messing with an NC switch. So, I can see putting a cap on that side. I'm a little clueless here so be nice, do I wire it series with the regulator or in parallel? I've seen some discussion about the output side but, I don't see a bounce there that is likely to do anything to the regulator. You can change my mind though. Are tantalum caps really necessary for this?
     
  17. JWebb

    JWebb Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 27, 2011
    St. Louis USA
    Can't give you technical advice, but I would love to see the end product and maybe buy one! Good luck!
     
  18. asdaq

    asdaq Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mickey, by 'fitting', do you mean the plastic part on the needle or the tip part on the syringe?
     
  19. bstedh

    bstedh Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 5, 2011
    Northern Minnesota
    IMO The caps are not really necessary. You can install them to buffer the battery however. You would just put one from ground to the positive input of the regulator. As far a which type would work best I will let someone with more knowledge answer that one.=]
     
  20. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2011
    Hickory, NC
    The larger syringes at TSC have a luer lock fitting on the end. The plastic part of the needle doesn't just stick on, it threads in. Cole-Parmer sells fittings like that for tubing. What I'm thinking about is to run 16 ga. needle flush with the bottom of a 510 battery connector with the plastic mounting portion of the needle intact on the bottom. Then mount (epoxy/silicone/TBD) a cut off 18 ga. needle in the luer lock fitting so that when the fitting is attached the 18 ga. needle goes through the 16 ga. needle and up into the atomizer the proper depth. I could then use different luer lock fittings with different 18 ga. needle lengths for different adapters/devices.

    Now all of the above may not be necessary because I've been told that the depth of the needle is only there to prevent backfeeding. If that's the case, I can get by with a couple one-way valves. One to let juice out and one to let air in. Cole-Parmer has those too. I hope someone can tell me whether that will work through an adapter.
     
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