Whilst I am happy with my current build, (SS316L, 26g, 3mm id, 9 wraps, 0.5mm spacing, dual coil @ 0.3ohm combined in Big Baby rba with Native Wicks cotton minimal wicks @ 47w = flavour NIRVANA, no leaks, 1 week between wick changes and 8 months now on same coil!). I am looking to try some 28g or 30g coils for a faster ramp up but more importantly for a quicker cool-down as I can still hear hot juice on the coil after I've stopped sucking, even when I've let go the power before I've stopped sucking. I want to keep using between 8 and 10 wraps, maybe going from 3mm to 3.5mm for my id, but I see when using Steam-Engine that my expected ohms will be 1.6 to 1.8 per coil, giving me 0.8 to 0.9 ohms per dual coil set up. Does anyone have experience of just barely sub-ohming like this? If so - what was it like?
Thinner wire question, (28g or 30g)
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Yes, I build & vape anywhere between .2 & 1.0. Is ok, if you fire it at the same watts you'll probably find it just as responsive as your original coil as you have not actually reduced the coils mass much. Conversley it will take just as long to cool down. If you want to eliminate the residual vaporizing that's occuring you need to decrease the overall mass of your coil. There are many ways to do this, but I wouldn't get stuck on any spec. I'd reduce your wrap count and space your coils. If you're stuck on wanting a specific ohm, than you could then ise a smaller gauge wire that will get you the ohms you want. From my experience I only really notice major performance changes with wire 4 gauges apart. To be honest though ohms mean nothing in terms of performance, unless you're running a mech.
Hope that helps
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Hi. I'm not stuck on any ohms. The current result is simply a factor of material v as many wraps as I could get into the space - looking for as much surface area as possible really. Because using a similar profile of id and number of wraps for the same motivation of maximising surface area gave me quite a different ohms rating than I have been used to, I was looking to ascertain other people's reaction/experience at vaping closer to 1 ohm than I have been used to. I had not looked to reduce number of wraps as I was under the impression that more wraps would give better flavour than less.
Oh, and I always used spaced coils now as I find they gunk less than contact, and seem to produce better flavour too. IMHO!
The thinner the wire, the cooler your vape will be. It'll also be more efficiant, you'll get bigger clouds with same power/same clouds with less.
For a direct comparison keep the coil dimension (length and diameter) the same and just use more wraps of the thinner wire.
If taste is better/worse depends on the liquid and your personal, erm, taste.
Spaced coils with thinner wire are a little finnicky to build, though. For large coils I'd suggest building in parallel. Easier to do, more stable coils and your resistance doesnt skyrocket into "unusable at xx Watt because of Voltage limitation" territory.
But in general, resistance doesnt matter much on a VW device. I have used 1,1 Ohm builds at 60W and 0,8 at 90. No problem.
For a direct comparison keep the coil dimension (length and diameter) the same and just use more wraps of the thinner wire.
If taste is better/worse depends on the liquid and your personal, erm, taste.
Spaced coils with thinner wire are a little finnicky to build, though. For large coils I'd suggest building in parallel. Easier to do, more stable coils and your resistance doesnt skyrocket into "unusable at xx Watt because of Voltage limitation" territory.
But in general, resistance doesnt matter much on a VW device. I have used 1,1 Ohm builds at 60W and 0,8 at 90. No problem.
Thanks for that, some good info. Nice one. TBH that’s almost exactly what I’ve been finding so far. I did find 30 was just too fine for my favoured spaced coils as it was too finicky to try and keep its shape and spacing, but 28 seems to work just right. Thinner wire seems to make the wicks last a day or 2 longer as well. Tried a couple of drippers recently with the same build, but was able to make bigger spaces as there’s more room. Definitely a little more flavour than the tanks but seemed to hoover the juice and just too labour intensive - not enough extra flavour for all the extra effort. For them to use more juice than the Big Baby Beast is going some I tell you! LOL And when I don’t keep my eye on the wick and it dries, (far too quickly!), yuck! Now I’m using the drippers to try out new juices but tanking for day to day everyday vaping. Nice happy medium.
My builds are 316l ss, dual chimney (bvc), 30awg, id 3.0, 10 wraps, ,85 ohm, spaced, wattage varies for "taste/flavor" but average is 25ishW, 5.0V. I'd call it a warm, not hot, vape. I vape only diy NETs. Flavor is outstanding. Spacing/shaping 30awg SS wired during low wattage (15-18w) pulse(s).
8 months on a coil was a standout in your post, as well as the 3mm coil diameter. I don't vape dual coils very often because at 10W I find SS316L single coils to be flavorful and easy to re-wick.
When you first dry burn an SS316L coil an Alumina coating forms on the wire. That coating is a shiny gray. Over time the coating burns off and it's time for a new coil. When the coil turns dull and rough, even after a short dry burn and water wash, it's time for a new coil. I usually replace a single coil at least once a month just to keep flavor up. I replace Koh Gen Do wicks twice a week.
In my trials with coil diameter I've tried 3mm, 2.5mm, and 2mm. 2mm with a wick that fills the coil snugly produces the best flavor for me and the small size allows greater airflow. My wicks are on the tight side when I insert them into a 28ga 2mm coil. I have to twist them while pulling to get them through the coil without bending the coil legs. Once I get the wick in place I gently rotate the wick and pull it back and forth to size the wick where it can slide back and forth easily.
Contact is crucial to eliminating hot spots that cause heat and burnt flavor in the vapor. Any space between the coil and wick will allow the coil to glow in that area and ruin the flavor. Lower turn count and smaller diameter = faster heat up and cool down.
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Right on here Dave, symmetry is vital. As for the glow, perhaps at some point, initially. Wherever there's a gap I've found , as explanation, accretion on the inside of the coil seems the culprit. It may start as charring from overheating but with time I think this reduces the thermal conductivity of that segment of the coil. Then the accretion is wetter akin to the accumulation building on that charred beginning in a pan from over-cooking. In other words, the charring forms a base.
In our situation if I'm right we're seeing attenuation of vaporization at that point of accumulation. It may later again lead to charring; true, if the wick were to run substantially dry in that spot (over-cooking ceases there). It's quite possible then if not likely for remaining segments to overheat or light up if one part of the coil is that cool (it's hot but does not radiate). If so this segment may actually char if we overcompensate with power on a VW. It may likewise char the wick (even Nextel) and yes, it will then get very hot (internally). Bottom line…you have uneven and likely less production. Overall the output may seem cooler yet less dense, drier. Unsatisfying and often tasting at least the beginnings of burnt.
Continue using that coil for a day or more and you may find the internal flow substantially cut off. In a dual, the indicator or predictor that you're heading in that direction is unbalanced output. The cause, asymmetry.
Good luck all.
I have to admit that this comment has me intrigued as I have noticed that the coils are starting to feel less smooth after cleaning, so I’d like to ask what the effects of the alumina depletion would be. I concur about the gentle twisting for insertion method as it allows me to ensure good positioning without too much movement of the coil. I find that not trying to “pack” too much wick, i.e. just enough to touch the whole inner diameter but not more than to ensure very slight friction when moving back and forth allows the best wicking efficiency and the twist/untwist helps to fluff the wick inside the coil. Even with spaced coils, ( I never compress), I can’t stop gunning, although with 8/9 coils over a 7mm width the spaces are getting smaller. Any help on the Alumina effects will be gratefully received.
I agree, that’s why I fiddle and fuss with my wicks when changing to ensure a perfect fit, not afraid to discard and start over if it’s not going just right. I’ve found that the extra few minutes spent wicking can add days to its life. Hence rewicking after a week whether I need it or not! I must admit that with my current set up I don’t go much over 44w as I haven’t found any better flavour worth sacrificing wick and battery life for. I like a cooler vape too maybe than a hot one.Right on here Dave, symmetry is vital. As for the glow, perhaps at some point, initially. Wherever there's a gap I've found , as explanation, accretion on the inside of the coil seems the culprit. It may start as charring from overheating but with time I think this reduces the thermal conductivity of that segment of the coil. Then the accretion is wetter akin to the accumulation building on that charred beginning in a pan from over-cooking. In other words, the charring forms a base.
In our situation if I'm right we're seeing attenuation of vaporization at that point of accumulation. It may later again lead to charring; true, if the wick were to run substantially dry in that spot (over-cooking ceases there). It's quite possible then if not likely for remaining segments to overheat or light up if one part of the coil is that cool (it's hot but does not radiate). If so this segment may actually char if we overcompensate with power on a VW. It may likewise char the wick (even Nextel) and yes, it will then get very hot (internally). Bottom line…you have uneven and likely less production. Overall the output may seem cooler yet less dense, drier. Unsatisfying and often tasting at least the beginnings of burnt.
Continue using that coil for a day or more and you may find the internal flow substantially cut off. In a dual, the indicator or predictor that you're heading in that direction is unbalanced output. The cause, asymmetry.
Good luck all.
MacTechVpr updated me on the alumina coating. That only occurs with Kanthal. SS316L just takes on a darker shiny appearance that can resemble Alumina. The important thing is to replace coils after they lose their smooth feel after dry burning and water washing and keep your wicks clean and able to deliver juice to the coil. A wick should fully contact the inner surface of the coil to prevent hot spots.
Heat Flux in Steam Engine is an important property. Too many wraps or wire that's too thick will slow down the ramp up of heat in the coil. Ideally, you want a coil that heats up fast and cools down quickly. You might want to experiment with coil diameter and wire gauge to find the size that gives you the best performance at your vape level. Sometimes, that just happens to be a smaller coil with fewer wraps. Try various coil diameters to see how they work.
You also have to consider coil diameter that allows enough wick to keep up with juice flow for your wattage. Heat Flux is your key parameter there, too.
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I find Steam Engine a great tool and run all my ideas through there 1st before building. Elements like Heat Flux have indeed contributed to the decision to try out a build or not; currently trying SS316L, 28g, 3.5mm id, 9 spaced wraps giving 0.61ohms, with a short ramp up and quite a cool vape, even when chaining occasionally. Using Native Wicks Platinum. Seems to be an effective combination for steady juice delivery with good flavour and satisfying clouds.
I agree. It all depends on the combination of wire size, wraps, and wattage and that's where Steam Engine shines. SE saves you the trouble of experimenting to find the right wire size, number of turns, and coil diameter to fit a particular application. It even lets you see how various wire types and gauges play into the final decision.
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I love steam-engine and on first glance, I thought I would hate it. LOL, too much math, except it really wasn't hard, I find this to be the case quite often, if I'm actually interested in the math. If all my SAT questions had been vape-related, well, I wouldn't have been "tutored" by my Mom for 2 months at the end of high school, and that would've been awesome.
I could have quit smoking way younger, too. I'm noticing lung function coming back (it's slow) but I don't think it will ever be the same, which I'm okay with honestly, I could have continued on to much more damage....
But, steam-engine is fantastic!
Anna
I could have quit smoking way younger, too. I'm noticing lung function coming back (it's slow) but I don't think it will ever be the same, which I'm okay with honestly, I could have continued on to much more damage....
But, steam-engine is fantastic!
Anna
I’m typically 28GA SS316L @ 11 wraps at around 3mm ID evenly spaced. In my experience, I’ve found that thicker wire (same number of wraps/same size coil) produces a marginally denser/thicker cloud with a definitely noticeable increase in warmth, but not necessarily more flavor (I don’t vary liquid often, but may be liquid dependent here) ... in most cases, less or more muted flavor for me. I’ve found 28G to be my sweet spot for the liquid I use.
Is this in agreement with the physics and/or others’ experiences?
Is this in agreement with the physics and/or others’ experiences?
Actually, if heat flux is a major factor: A 28G SS316L coil with 3.0mm ID / 11 wraps @ .62ohms gives 43.36.
I'm wondering, on my smaller decks, if I build a 26G SS316L coil with 3.0mm ID / 7 wraps @ .53ohms with a heat flux of 46.86, would this give me a similar, i.e. nearly identical experience?
ETA: I use temperature control on a DNA75 mod exclusively, assume I will use settings that will give me a fast ramp up on any coil config and the same temperature (460F).
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You're applying the same power to a more constrained surface area. I'd say you will see a slightly warmer, more diffuse or mildly drier output and yes a bit faster ramp up. A 1/10thΩ diff should be def noticeable in this context. This may favor your juice; or, perhaps not. But I like the way you think. Not much exp w/s.s. so let us know.
Good luck.
You're applying the same power to a more constrained surface area. I'd say you will see a slightly warmer, more diffuse or mildly drier output and yes a bit faster ramp up. A 1/10thΩ diff should be def noticeable in this context. This may favor your juice; or, perhaps not. But I like the way you think. Not much exp w/s.s. so let us know.
Good luck.
Makes sense ... thanks! I've got the day off tomorrow, some vape mail coming and am going to do some experimenting ... will post my findings.
So, I just built a single 8 wrap, 3.09mm ID using 26GA coming in right around .61Ohms. My dual coil, 11 wrap 3.09mm ID using 28GA come in right about the same resistance, right around .61Ohms.
I'm thinking this heat flux thing is about spot on, because the single 8 wrap 26GA shows a heat flux of 53.93 on SE, and the dual coil comes in at 42.66. I'm seeing a slightly warmer vape with the single 8 wrap with bigger wire, but right about the same flavor profile ... using similar tanks, OBS Engine for the duals, and Zeus for the single. Output seems to be about the same for both.
Again, temperature controlled at either 460 or 480 degrees.
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