Titanium Coil Problems on Pioneer4U mods

[menace66]

Hi Guys,

I started using Ti recently and has been encountering intermittent issues.

- Grade 1 Ti 24GA from fasttech
- IPVD2 and IPV3Li mods
- Kangertech subtank mini with RBA
- 7 coils closed 3mm with resistance usually about 0.24 to 0.26 ohms consistently
- Always set resistance with my coils at room temp

Problem : Sometimes after a fresh Ti coil build on my IPVD2, the vape will taste too cold and I have to crank up the temp to abt 500degF which in my opinion is ridiculous as the max temp for both mods is 523degF. I can move this same tank over to my IPV3Li and it behaves the exact same way vice versa btw the 2 mods. This only happens occasionally. There are times when I start off with a good coil and temp setting in Ti mode, but will turn bad like this as well after a few(about 3) tanks of vaping.

Strange things is that I can workaround this issue for both mods by setting the mod to Nickle even though I am using Ti after which I can get a good warm vape at 300degF.

Question : Does the problem lie in my mods or my coils? I am thinking is this due to bad quality Ti wire or the current generation Ti temp control mods tech is not matured enough to control the temps well?

 

[NealBJr]

Hi Guys,

I started using Ti recently and has been encountering intermittent issues.

- Grade 1 Ti from Fasttech
- IPVD2 and IPV3Li mods
- Kangertech subtank mini with RBA
- 7 coils closed 3mm with resistance usually about 0.24 to 0.26 ohms consistently
- Always set resistance with my coils at room temp

Problem : Sometimes after a fresh Ti coil build on my IPVD2, the vape will taste too cold and I have to crank up the temp to abt 500degF which in my opinion is ridiculous as the max temp for both mods is 523degF. I can move this same tank over to my IPV3Li and it behaves the exact same way vice versa btw the 2 mods. This only happens occasionally. There are times when I start off with a good coil and temp setting in Ti mode, but will turn bad like this as well after a few(about 3) tanks of vaping.

Strange things is that I can workaround this issue for both mods by setting the mod to Nickle even though I am using Ti after which I can get a good warm vape at 300degF.

Question : Does the problem lie in my mods or my coils? I am thinking is this due to bad quality Ti wire or the current generation Ti temp control mods tech is not matured enough to control the temps well?

That is a pretty high setup for ohms for a TC mod. I use SS on mine, and the ohm reading is .14. I Also bought some Titanium from Fasttech, but my mod only supports NI-200. I would try for a lower ohms and see what happens. Remember, with temp control, the mod should change the joules to get the temp it is looking for.

Lastly, what gauge wire is it?

 

[NealBJr]

Hi Guys,

I started using Ti recently and has been encountering intermittent issues.

- Grade 1 Ti from Fasttech
- IPVD2 and IPV3Li mods
- Kangertech subtank mini with RBA
- 7 coils closed 3mm with resistance usually about 0.24 to 0.26 ohms consistently
- Always set resistance with my coils at room temp

Problem : Sometimes after a fresh Ti coil build on my IPVD2, the vape will taste too cold and I have to crank up the temp to abt 500degF which in my opinion is ridiculous as the max temp for both mods is 523degF. I can move this same tank over to my IPV3Li and it behaves the exact same way vice versa btw the 2 mods. This only happens occasionally. There are times when I start off with a good coil and temp setting in Ti mode, but will turn bad like this as well after a few(about 3) tanks of vaping.

Strange things is that I can workaround this issue for both mods by setting the mod to Nickle even though I am using Ti after which I can get a good warm vape at 300degF.

Question : Does the problem lie in my mods or my coils? I am thinking is this due to bad quality Ti wire or the current generation Ti temp control mods tech is not matured enough to control the temps well?

Also, went to the IPV site and found this....

IPV D2 Specs:

• Machined from Superior-Grade Aluminum
• Threading: Spring-loaded 510, Stainless Steel
• Wattage: 7 Watts – 75 Watts
• Voltage: 1 Volt – 8 Volts
• Temperature Range: 200°F - 580°F (100°C - 300°C)
• Kanthal Coils Resistance: 0.2 Ohms – 3.0 Ohms
• Nickel / Titanium Resistance: 0.05 Ohms – 0.3 Ohms

Notice the nickel/titanium resistance is much lower than the kanthal resistance... I would try a .1 ohm setting and see how it does.

 

[IMFire3605]

Yes, temp control you should shoot for between 0.10 to 0.20ohms for accuracy, if the mod supports it, make sure the settings are set for Titanium TC mode, this makes sure the control isn't confused when the resistance rises from the temp of the wire. Some mods like the Evic VT especially if you go over 0.30 or so, a flaw in the control chip goes into standard Variable Wattage mode from TC mode. If it just supports Ni200 Nickel, set the temp 100F lower than what you would for Ni200 when using Titanium. My foray so far into TC has been with basically only 28awg Annealed Nickel Ni200 and always wrap the same coil, about 2.5mm 12/11 wrap, gets me right in the 0.12 to 0.15 range, lock that in and the coil and tank stay on the mod at all times so don't have to re-lock the resistance in every time.

 

[menace66]

Hmmm. Guess i will try 2.5mm x 5 wraps for my coils to get it lower. Will update the results after i do it. Fact is dat based on specs and my resistance at 0.25 consistently it does fall within dat range of acceptable specs.

 

[NealBJr]

Hmmm. Guess i will try 2.5mm x 5 wraps for my coils to get it lower. Will update the results after i do it. Fact is dat based on specs and my resistance at 0.25 consistently it does fall within dat range of acceptable specs.

Yea, but it's on the high side. Imagine if you were on the high ohm side of Kanthal.. .you'd be making 2.5 ohm 26 gauge coils which is still acceptable for the mod....but what would the vape be like.......

 

[disley]

I have no problems with Ti in TC mode at .4ohms. 24g with 8/9 wraps on a 2.5mm or 3mm I.D.
Using an evic-VT. 480F and 50watts.
The same on my VF DNA40, with the temp set at 360f and 40watts.
Why would the mod be so limited?

 

[menace66]

I kinda agree with this. My main beef is why does the Ti work so well in Nickel mode but not with its intended Ti mode?

 

[NealBJr]

Titanium has more resistance than NI. So, when you put it in nickle wire mode, it's supplying more power to the coils... Keep in mind though, you're also giving false information to the chip, so it could be getting it hotter than what you want. If you heat Titanium up too hot, you get Titanium Oxide, which is a carcinogen. The coils would have to get red hot for that which is doubtfull, but in the long run, you're defeating the purpose of temp control mode, and you might's well go into wattage mode.

 

[menace66]

Titanium has more resistance than NI. So, when you put it in nickle wire mode, it's supplying more power to the coils... Keep in mind though, you're also giving false information to the chip, so it could be getting it hotter than what you want. If you heat Titanium up too hot, you get Titanium Oxide, which is a carcinogen. The coils would have to get red hot for that which is doubtfull, but in the long run, you're defeating the purpose of temp control mode, and you might's well go into wattage mode.

What i get from using TC is that it does not actually control the temperature. Instead it only controls what it INTERPRETS as the temperature from the resistance and settings.

 

[NealBJr]

Digital thermometers measure the resistance of a wire. Essentially, a TC mod is using your coil as one big thermometer. It regulates the power based on the ohms reading from the wire... If it's set to NI-200, it will interpret the changes in the ohm reading to get a fairly accurate reading..but if it THINKS it's Ni-200, but you have a totally different wire type in there, then there's no telling what the actual temperature is...

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4915115_digital-thermometer-work.html

 

[disley]

I have never been able to get the titanium anywhere near .15ohm or .2ohm, and still have the wraps to give me enough vapor.
I use 8 or 9 wraps, and get .4ohm or .5ohms with 24g on a 2.5mm mandrel.
It works perfectly fine in Ti TC mode.
I twist 2 pieces of 28g Ti, and use 8 wraps with a 2.5mm I.D, and get .39ohms.
At 50watts and 480f on the evic, I get lots of clouds with good flavor.
I don't know why your mod won't operate at those ohms.
I don't really use TC much anymore.
I don't get dry hits and the vape is tremendous, by adjusting the temp and watts to suit the coil.

 

[menace66]

Digital thermometers measure the resistance of a wire. Essentially, a TC mod is using your coil as one big thermometer. It regulates the power based on the ohms reading from the wire... If it's set to NI-200, it will interpret the changes in the ohm reading to get a fairly accurate reading..but if it THINKS it's Ni-200, but you have a totally different wire type in there, then there's no telling what the actual temperature is...

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4915115_digital-thermometer-work.html

When running a non-Ti supported TC device but still using Ti, just setting it at 100degF estimated will work. It's all in the chip's algorithm. And this is why my devices work well in Nickel mode even when using Ti. Works same way for my Sigelei 150W TC which does not support Ti but still vapes so good by setting the temp to 100degF lower.

Ultimately we just want a good vape and to be honest, physically we can tell if the vape is too hot or burnt and this just does not tally when comparing with the set temps when using Ti. And as mentioned, this happens with maybe half of my coils. The other half works as expected even though its the same resistance at about 0.25ohms.

I have also ordered another brand (MKWS) Ti wire from fasttech. Would like to rule out my wires as well.

 

[NealBJr]

Well, with

When running a non-Ti supported TC device but still using Ti, just setting it at 100degF estimated will work. It's all in the chip's algorithm. And this is why my devices work well in Nickel mode even when using Ti. Works same way for my Sigelei 150W TC which does not support Ti but still vapes so good by setting the temp to 100degF lower.

Ultimately we just want a good vape and to be honest, physically we can tell if the vape is too hot or burnt and this just does not tally when comparing with the set temps when using Ti. And as mentioned, this happens with maybe half of my coils. The other half works as expected even though its the same resistance at about 0.25ohms.

I have also ordered another brand (MKWS) Ti wire from fasttech. Would like to rule out my wires as well.

MKWS is what I ordered from Fasttech. Again, I haven't tried it Since the Cloupor only supports Ni-200. I was a winner of the Xcube II which should come in soon. A titanium build is #1 on my priority when I get it. Keep me informed so we can swap notes. I would try Titanium on the Cloupor GT, but yours seem to be working fine in NI mode.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/2909000 (what I have now)

 

[Eitje]

P4Us are kinda picky I noticed in TC on my ipv 4s. Try to stick to around 0.20 ohms, not higher at least.
My evic vtc is far more forgiving. Vaping my single coil 0.35 without issues at approx 225C.

 

[menace66]

Am I the only one dat have these issues? I am sure many of us are now trying out Ti. Would love to hear from those who have experienced the same thing.

 

[menace66]

P4Us are kinda picky I noticed in TC on my ipv 4s. Try to stick to around 0.20 ohms, not higher at least.
My evic vtc is far more forgiving. Vaping my single coil 0.35 without issues at approx 225C.

Whats ur coil build like for the ipv4s? Wraps/Ga/Diameter?

 

[Bunnykiller]

Titanium has more resistance than NI. So, when you put it in nickle wire mode, it's supplying more power to the coils... Keep in mind though, you're also giving false information to the chip, so it could be getting it hotter than what you want. If you heat Titanium up too hot, you get Titanium Oxide, which is a carcinogen. The coils would have to get red hot for that which is doubtfull, but in the long run, you're defeating the purpose of temp control mode, and you might's well go into wattage mode.

did you do well in chemistry class?
oxygen and Ti bind together to make TiO2, which is non bio-degradable, inert, and relativitly safe... as for being a carcinogen...nope...

 

[menace66]

Update :

- 24GA 2.5mm 6 wraps for 0.19ohms. Same problem. Even colder vape. Had to crank up to 530degF for a good vape.

- 24GA 3mm 6wraps for 0.22ohms. This one turned out good.

Like i said. Its not consistent. The good coil will turn bad after a few tanks. Or sometimes i use the exact same way to coil with similar resistance and its cold again. I am leaning more to the Ti wire being inconsistent or low quality. Waiting for my MKWS. Will update again.

The only consistency i have is dat the coils all work great in Nickel mode at abt 280degF.

 

[Matty316]

A Ti build should run fine at up to .3 ohms on those mods. Could be a problem with the firmware on them. I can't remember if it is updateable on those like it is on the IPV4s but if it is you could try reinstalling the latest update and see if that helps.

Also personally I wouldn't trust the quality of wire coming from fasttech. I've heard of people ordering kanthal from them and getting Ni200.