Title edited [CLOSED] Unregistered

[Walt83]

Good Morning Fans!

Rumors are floating around that the FDA ruling on regulations is expected to be released today. We have a team of lawyers waiting for a copy and we promise to keep you up to date!

 

[skyraiser9]

Finally got around to trying the Blackberry sample i got from Easter in Kanger Protank 2(thought this tank was worthless for weeks until I changed the coil and realized the one that it came with was just defective). This juice is delicious and probably teh best E-juice i have ever had, even my wife loved it. She said "Tell the guy that runs that site that you want to order more" lol. Walt, I think this flavor should definitely be a keeper. I then mixed it with some Cherry Berry Chiller and it was fantastic! This would be an ADV for me if it was readily available.

 

[JoanJ]

Good Morning Fans!

Rumors are floating around that the FDA ruling on regulations is expected to be released today. We have a team of lawyers waiting for a copy and we promise to keep you up to date!

Thanks Walt... for me it is the limbo that has me twitchy. At least when we know what we are dealing with, then we can deal with it.

 

[MikeNice81]

Thanks Walt... for me it is the limbo that has me twitchy. At least when we know what we are dealing with, then we can deal with it.

I plan on stocking up on DIY supplies for creating my own n.e.ts since they plan on regulating pipe and cigar tobaccos as well. A mod and rebuildable set up will probably be in the cards during the next year.

 

[LarryDb]

I'm thinking of stockpiling some nicotine, that is probably going to be tougher to get, I'm not a diy'er yet just thinking ahead.

 

[BostonVape]

I'm thinking of stockpiling some nicotine, that is probably going to be tougher to get, I'm not a diy'er yet just thinking ahead.

There will always be places online to buy e-liquid regardless of the FDA's regulations.. even if it means ordering directly from China.. which is exactly what I will do.. I will NEVER go back to cigs... I don't care what the FDA passes but obviously I hope for a smooth process (hard to keep positive with all the negative propaganda going around)

 

[demlevis]

...coffee break...

A little regulation to protect us from those unscrupulous few who would use harmful or dangerous ingredients is OK with me. Regulating my behavior to protect you from harm I might cause is OK too. Regulating my behavior to protect me from my own personal choices, well, that's a different story.

Even if you want to debate the potential harmful effects of nicotine, it is my belief that ecigs must certainly be a less harmful alternative to analogs simply because eliquid does not contain the myriad other harmful substances found in cigarettes.

The real worry for me is not regulation, but taxation. Despite all the rhetoric about the taxes on tobacco products being intended to help cover the collective public health costs of smoking, I sincerely believe that jurisdictions will seek, and are seeking, ways to replace tax revenues declining as a result of lower tobacco sales. Why? Because those revenues are not truly being used in the interest of public health, or at least not solely for tobacco-related health concerns. It is only a matter of time before we see punitive taxes applied to e-liquids and DIY products in a bid to replace those "lost" revenues.

...end coffee break...

 

[Walt83]

I am still reviewing all of it and so are the lawyers but really there are no shockers in here...

The biggest thing I see coming is the age verification and new labels.
Right now there is no plan to stop flavors but they want input.

What does scare me is the fees that come with registration and pre-market approvals.

"The proposed rule would impose costs in the form of registration, submission, labeling, and other requirements."

These fees can range from $600 to $10k plus don't forget about Use tax...
The day of $1.99 sales may end if it is to much...

One advantage that we have being a flavor company first is the fact we could sell just the flavoring alone super cheap and then only get the base mix approved. When you get the 2 products you mix it your self

So you would buy 30ml of 50/50 mix with 6mg nicotine and then 1 8ml bottle of flavoring... Mix it and bam you have your bubblegum e-liquid

 

[shelzmike]

FYI, if you happen to have the interest in reading a 241 page document...here is the actual document https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2014-09491.pdf

 

[MikeNice81]

Well, I see some of my favorite distributors disappearing if the price for approval is $600 per flavor. $600 multiplied across 125 flavors is destructive to a small business. I guess it is exactly what we knew it would be, a way to phase out competition to the old guard. Expect to see Lorillard and Phillip Morris introducing new equipment, subsidiaries, and lines of flavor in the next 18 months. They're the only ones I know of with pockets that big.

 

[mountainbikermark]

It's all about the revenue coming into the government and regulators to spend the revenue on their salaries as political thank yous.
Nothing new, just more of the same for the 4th branch of government (big corporations) to continue its stranglehold and manipulation on the other 3 branches. It's been that way since the 1780s.

Support Our Troops!!!
<><
NoteToo

 

[boborone]

One advantage that we have being a flavor company first is the fact we could sell just the flavoring alone super cheap and then only get the base mix approved. When you get the 2 products you mix it your self

So you would buy 30ml of 50/50 mix with 6mg nicotine and then 1 8ml bottle of flavoring... Mix it and bam you have your bubblegum e-liquid

That's how they do it in Australia

 

[Renegayde]

Well, I see some of my favorite distributors disappearing if the price for approval is $600 per flavor. $600 multiplied across 125 flavors is destructive to a small business. .

actually if it were only $600 per flavoring I would consider that not bad.....even if they have 125 flavors.........600x125=$75000 now divide that up by a 75k bottles in sales you are at a $1 per flavor...or am I looking at it wrong?

 

[MikeNice81]

actually if it were only $600 per flavoring I would consider that not bad.....even if they have 125 flavors.........60x125=$7500 now divide that up by a 7.5k bottles in sales you are at a $1 per flavor...or am I looking at it wrong?

You forgot a zero.

ETA: Plus an upfront cost of $75,000 is more capital than many of these businesses have in reserve. I can't imagine that MVJ or Netcom have that kind of money in the bank. Walt may be able to swing it, but a lot of companies would probably get crushed.

It is about cash on hand when the application process begins and the lost revenue while waiting for approval. The FDA has been accused of putting larger companies ahead of smaller companies in the approval process. So, the down time would be crucial. MVJ might make it on their DIY stuff in a manner like Walt discussed. Many companies would get crushed or be forced to drastically limit their offerings to only the most popular flavors. That 125 flavor selection very well could turn into about 15.

 

[Walt83]

actually if it were only $600 per flavoring I would consider that not bad.....even if they have 125 flavors.........60x125=$7500 now divide that up by a 7.5k bottles in sales you are at a $1 per flavor...or am I looking at it wrong?

x4 (each nicotine level counts as a new flavor)

 

[fatpeopleunite]

actually if it were only $600 per flavoring I would consider that not bad.....even if they have 125 flavors.........60x125=$7500 now divide that up by a 7.5k bottles in sales you are at a $1 per flavor...or am I looking at it wrong?

You're off by a factor of 10. 600x125=75,000!


Edit: Then, multiply that by 4 as Walt said, 300,000!!!!

 

[JoanJ]

actually if it were only $600 per flavoring I would consider that not bad.....even if they have 125 flavors.........60x125=$7500 now divide that up by a 7.5k bottles in sales you are at a $1 per flavor...or am I looking at it wrong?

Your math is wrong... it is 600 times and not 60

 

[Renegayde]

x4 (each nicotine level counts as a new flavor)

UGH ok I give up LOL.....so then we would probably see some vendors offering fewer nic levels

 

[Renegayde]

Your math is wrong... it is 600 times and not 60

ROFL ok ppl I edited it

 

[Walt83]

(remember this is only a guess we do not know what they will make it. One section asked for input on this exact thing.)

At 192 flavors (How many we actually have) and $600 per flavor and 4 levels of nicotine (0 does not need approval) the cost would be as followed
192 * 4 = 768 labels needing premarket approval.

768 * $600 = $460,800

Ouch...