To be main-stream or not to be?

[Dale]

Look anything GOOD gets noticed no matter if you like it or not. I mean same with music...


Personally some of you guys make me sick.

When we had a poll on here to vote if we thought someone should try to get the word out by making a news article like half of you said no all worried about taxation and stuff... Ummm HELLO PEOPLE ARE DYING HERE and you guys are like Ohhhh, I dontttttt knoooooowwwww... Maaaammmaaa maybeeee weeee should keeep it a secret??? .... Good you go keep it a secret and someday , maybe, when you grow balls you can go tell all your smoker friends...... when they are in the nether....

I was the guy who commissioned that poll... and I do tell my smoker friends. I just don't want to be the guy who tells the world and brings the wrath of multiple governments down on us.

That said, the word is "out there" enough these days that I don't think the little NPR News story I had in mind would be the end of the world.

 

[Kaston]

what is holding me back from screaming from the roof tops is too much exposure. Also the fact that the juice isn't in maybe the safest form or control.

But if it does go mainstream, then there will be standards set which will lead to more consistent and safer products.

 

[spyderuk]

But if it does go mainstream, then there will be standards set which will lead to more consistent and safer products.

And as already posted, juice will be regulated, lower nic strength. Choice of flavours? don't hold your breath. Oh and the price of this watered down, controlled and TAXED juice? 8-o

Stock up now!

 

[dc2k08]

I still think you should go with that story dale, if as you say, most of the local radio stations take their pointers from NPR, then a positive story would lay the mood for the others.

I know it's got nothing to do with the thread but I was wondering what you made of that NY doc who hosted an NPR health show and was caught taking money from Big Pharm in return for recommending their products? Is he still at the station ?

 

[Angelino]

I think that the main obstacle for e-cigs is a kind of complicated setup. Not everybody is ready to deal on regular basis with all these batteries, liquids, atomizers etc. Simplicity is a key. On the other hand, I do believe that at some point of time big tobacco monsters like, for example, PM will step in, put serious money in this project, push away all current pathetic semi-amateurs with their lousy products and maybe eventually will come up with really attractive and convenient for use reliable e-cigarette.

 

[rustylug]

The problem i have with this Angelino is that the big tabaco firms ARE NOT INTRESTED IN OUR HEALTH .....At least for the time being we are able to ask some suppliers on THIS FORUM for proof of their claims and be ABLE TO TALK TO THEM DIRECT.....As they get bigger this might not be the case ..... Thats the time they get other people to talk for them .... Then you get Fu*k ups.....!!!! ....... Sometimes.it is a case of "good is small". ...... PS .... I also think because some suppliers have good customers that THEY THEM SELF begin to feel like they are some sort of dealer in ilegal drugs.....I Guess this is where we need to get regulation !!!

 

[rustylug]

Sorry ..... Had to have my 2 cents woth ..... If you seen a guy sucking on a Nic Inholater in a coffie shop .. What would you say ....

Would it be ..

A/ Look at that ******** sucking on that thing over their?
B/ Look at that dude trying to stop smoking .... Has no one told him about E-Cigs hee hee


Or would you think ...

A/ Dammm .. That guy got a black e-cig with the blue thing on it
B/ Bet its a cheap crap version he got of E-Bay ..... lol lol lol ... PS ... E-Bay please dont sue me hee hee.

 

[Angelino]

The problem i have with this Angelino is that the big tabaco firms ARE NOT INTRESTED IN OUR HEALTH

Rustylug, do you know the difference between a life and a penis? The life is much harder. Big companies maybe and most probably not at all are interested in our health but they are very much interested in their own pocket. But as I said the life is hard. So, instead of dealing with multibillion lawsuits I assume that eventually they will prefer to invest some money in our health.
And I barely can imagine 14-days warranty from any big company or the statement like we have from PureSmoker: “[FONT="]The fact is and remains, you will know whether you got a good piece of equipment within that initial 14 days. Although my atomizers and batteries are manufactured with only the highest of standards, many customers including myself, view them as consumable/disposable products. A good quality made atomizer should perform optimally for approximately 3-4 weeks, and if cleaned and taken care of properly, can last considerably longer. Instead of the name brand philosophy of [B][I]pay-big-up-front-replace-after-failure[/I][/B], that is riddled with frustration, wasted time, and complaints; I prefer the [B][I]pay-as-little-up-front-as-possible-replace-as-needed[/I][/B] philosophy.”[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]

 

[Bigredcent]

The problem I see with these life savers going big time is that the price will go through the roof for them and only the rich and famous will be able to afford them. The pharma. will probably not make flavored e-liquids outside of regular and menthol. You would have to go to a doctor for a script for the e-cig. and liquid (office call--$120.oo?) The drug companies would sell the liquid for $90.or higher(research and such to produce the liquid).And if the tabacco people where to produce a better quality e-cig that didn't need as much replaceing of parts they would charge $400. or more for it. That would put it WWWWAAAAAYYYYY OUT of my reach.

P>S> Don't forget having to go back to see the Dr. every 3to6 months for refill scripts for liquid.

 

[Kaston]

The problem I see with these life savers going big time is that the price will go through the roof for them and only the rich and famous will be able to afford them. The pharma. will probably not make flavored e-liquids outside of regular and menthol. You would have to go to a doctor for a script for the e-cig. and liquid (office call--$120.oo?) The drug companies would sell the liquid for $90.or higher(research and such to produce the liquid).And if the tabacco people where to produce a better quality e-cig that didn't need as much replaceing of parts they would charge $400. or more for it. That would put it WWWWAAAAAYYYYY OUT of my reach.

P>S> Don't forget having to go back to see the Dr. every 3to6 months for refill scripts for liquid.

I cannot say that will never happen, but on the flip side you cannot say it will. Like I mentioned on another thread, there is no use in fear mongering.

There are two options we have:

1. live in fear of what might happen or
2. get out there and DO something about it

"You can't manage knowledge — nobody can. What you can do is to manage the environment in which knowledge can be created, discovered, captured, shared, distilled, validated, transferred, adopted, adapted and applied." -Chris Collison and Geoff Parcell, Learning to Fly

"Knowledge changes you more than any medication can"
-Jared Duncan

So spread the gospel that is e-smoking =)

 

[TropicalBob]

It is not fear mongering. Don't be naive. Instead of happy talk, follow the "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" philosophy. Know your enemy. Know what could happen -- and prepare in whatever way you can.

Do you really think e-smoking will be welcomed with open arms, hugs and kisses from health authorities, federal agencies, the non-smoking masses? How about the industrial powers of tobacco and pharmaceuticals? Surely you see problems looming.

It is not fear mongering to face up to a future of uncertainty. It's smart.

 

[Kaston]

It is not fear mongering. Don't be naive. Instead of happy talk, follow the "prepare for the worst, hope for the best" philosophy. Know your enemy. Know what could happen -- and prepare in whatever way you can.

Do you really think e-smoking will be welcomed with open arms, hugs and kisses from health authorities, federal agencies, the non-smoking masses? How about the industrial powers of tobacco and pharmaceuticals? Surely you see problems looming.

It is not fear mongering to face up to a future of uncertainty. It's smart.

There will be a fight, no doubt Bob. But I am not a psychic and thus, speculation on what form of damnation we will see is moot.

Instead I offer another way to "face up to the future" by taking action to lay a foundation in society that could lead to the acceptance of e-cigs.

Yes one reason that analogs are not banned is the money flowing to Washington from Corp and taxes, but the other is the certainty of riots by the masses. If we can even capture a fraction of the populous, we have power.

 

[TropicalBob]

Good luck with that last part. Seriously. Good luck. Persuasion, however, will likely get you nowhere. Get science on your side. Without it, e-smoking is stillborn ... for the many reasons that have been listed here over the past year, which I will not repeat.

 

[Kaston]

Good luck with that last part. Seriously. Good luck. Persuasion, however, will likely get you nowhere. Get science on your side. Without it, e-smoking is stillborn ... for the many reasons that have been listed here over the past year, which I will not repeat.

Science is not always the -pardon the phrase- bees knees either. Marijuana has been proven safe by the medical authority, yet it is still illegal in most countries.

There is never one answer to any problem Bob, it is a combination of many ideas. I am just trying to do my part =)

 

[TropicalBob]

Apologies for my abruptness. I shot from the hip because I think you are drastically underestimating the opposition e-smoking will face. Do what you can to help, as we all will.

 

[Bigredcent]

Kaston, I'm not fear mongering! Just stating the possible out come when this goes main stream.
You wrote the following:

"There are two options we have:

1. live in fear of what might happen or
2. get out there and DO something about it"

"You can't manage knowledge — nobody can. What you can do is to manage the environment in which knowledge can be created, discovered, captured, shared, distilled, validated, transferred, adopted, adapted and applied." -Chris Collison and Geoff Parcell, Learning to Fly

"Knowledge changes you more than any medication can"
-Jared Duncan

So spread the gospel that is e-smoking =)[/quote]


So what do you suggest we get out and do??? How do you purpose to keep the big Pharma and Dr.s out of the mix?? Or keeping the goverment (local,state and federal) from taxing it to death??

 

[Kaston]

...I think you are drastically underestimating the opposition e-smoking will face...

I have no doubt that in a few years I will have to go to a "dealer" to get my "juice" if it all goes to ****.

But on the other hand, if we have just a slightly bumpy road and come out alright, then we will look back and think we did all of this worrying for nothing.

Take life as it comes, try to help out where you can, and we will deal with specific issues as they come to us.

Worst case scenario: e-cigs are headed towards getting banned, what do you do? Buy as much as you can and break the law by using?

If e-cigs are made illegal, it will be impossible to get it overturned.

Take marijuana. Scientists in the states are not even allowed to posses it for scientific testing. Although studies have been done in other countries that state it is safe, the US gov requires our own studies thus we get into the catch 22: they need to have marijuana legalized so they can study it so they can legalize it.

So we have to act now before it gets banned, or we will have no hope. [see my other posts for the suggest avenues of action]

 

[K-Sound Krew]

Taxes are the main way out school systems are funded, and here in Texas, almost $2 per pack of cigs go directly to schools. And if you ask me, schools need all of the money they can get!

If we had no taxes, there would be no government, and as much as we all hate it for one reason or another, it is a necessary evil, like abortion.

What? How can you justify the Government exploiting peoples addictions?
Screw the schools!
I don’t have kids, I own my own house, and my normal taxes are already going to education, welfare, etc

What possible correlation do you see with people being addicted to cigarettes funding the school system?

I see people on this forum blaming Big Tobacco for everything, I for one don't they offered a harmful product which I started using and got hooked on, I blame myself for that.

But what really pisses me off is the government and all these hangers on with their hands held out, who are exploiting peoples addictions.

As smokers we are a minority and we aren't popular, we have no one who will defend our rights, the extra tax we pay on cigs is equivelant to putting an extra tax for being black

I don't care how the taxes are spent it is wrong to tax a certain group more without justification

 

[Kaston]

What? How can you justify the Government exploiting peoples addictions?
Screw the schools!
I don’t have kids, I own my own house, and my normal taxes are already going to education, welfare, etc

What possible correlation do you see with people being addicted to cigarettes funding the school system?

I see people on this forum blaming Big Tobacco for everything, I for one don't they offered a harmful product which I started using and got hooked on, I blame myself for that.

But what really pisses me off is the government and all these hangers on with their hands held out, who are exploiting peoples addictions.

As smokers we are a minority and we aren't popular, we have no one who will defend our rights, the extra tax we pay on cigs is equivelant to putting an extra tax for being black

I don't care how the taxes are spent it is wrong to tax a certain group more without justification

Smoking related health costs are expensive and cost our country a lot of money (from WHO):

• Cigarettes cause more than one in five American deaths.
• Half of long-term smokers will die from tobacco. Every cigarette smoked cuts at least five minutes of life on average - about the time taken to smoke it.
• Smoking-related diseases cost the United States more than $150 billion a year.
• In the United States, an estimated 25.9 million men (23.9 percent) and 20.7 million women (18.1 percent) are smokers.

Okay lets do the math:

• The average tax in the states per pack is $1.10
• 25.9 million men contribute $10,400,000,000 a year in taxes (based on 1 pack a day)
• 20.7 million women contribute $830,000,000
• total is 1,870,000,000
• cost to the US is $150,000,000,000
• difference (rounded) is $148,000,000,000

In short the US has to pay 148 BILLION a year due to smoking related issues. And I do know that big tobacco picks up some of the tab, but not all of it.

So you are upset that you have to pay for schools and you have no children eh? What about all of the non smokers who have to pay taxes for the cost of the smoking related issues?!

At least money for schools is an investment in our society's future.

Screw the schools you say? Without them, you are screwed. Let me ask you this, how many professionals do you rely on everyday?

 

[K-Sound Krew]

I'm surprised your actually a smoker your just spinning irrelevant data back at me.
I never said I didn't want to support education, I just don't think I should have to pay more then my fair share of tax because I'm addicted to smoking, the 2 are unrelated and your argument doesn't adress this fact.

So you throw at me the cost of smoking related deaths,
Big tobacco pays extra, cig tax goes towards this, smokers health insurance costs more

But here is the real truth
Obese people, smokers cost the health system less than healthy do, study finds
(this is a Dutch study done last year if you look you can find the American one done a few months ago)

So in the long run smokers pay more and cost less, bottom line!!!!

So if you want to really make a valid argument, tax the gyms and soy based products, and they can pay for the school kids books.

How much does cancer cost health insurance a year?
Who cares!
How much does welfare cost the system?
How much does anything cost?

We live in a 1st world country, stuffs expensive