Toning down the bitterness of a tobacco

[Chas F.]

Hey all, I've run into a problem with my ADV. I use Indian tobacco with a bit of jamaican rum, AP and saline but the last batch of Indian I received is much more bitter than previous batches. It's so bitter in fact that it's barely vapable with my original recipe. What can I add to reduce bitterness and add a touch of sweetness to it?

I've tried adding a bit of caramel, EM, smooth and vanilla to small 5ml test samples. If I get enough caramel or vanilla in the mix to kill the bitterness, they add too much flavor. Smooth didn't help all that much but it did help a little bit. EM didn't really remove much bitterness, only added some sweetness to it.

I really REALLY want the old flavor back, but I'm at my wits end! Should I continue to let them steep and hope the bitterness evens out or modify the recipe?

Any suggestions?

 

[Boletus]

I'm no flavoring expert, but have you tried reducing the %?

 

[Chas F.]

Yeah, dropped it from 7 to 4 and letting it steep. I mixed it up a few days ago and have been putting it through the US cleaner. I tried a few drips today, but it's still pretty bad.

 

[Boletus]

What brand was it, and where did you get it? Some are more consistent than others, and some vendors re-bottle from large containers and might dilute with something that fouls it. You may have gotten a bad batch that is irredeemable. Because this is a new industry with no regulation and few if any widely accepted standards, the possibility of getting something that just plain sucks certainly exists. Of course once it does become regulated, it will be hella more expensive and there will probably be a lot fewer choices, so that is the trade off, IMO, for the wide open market we enjoy now. But if you give the brand and where you got it, maybe someone else can help. As I said, i really do know very little about flavorings, other than generalities.

 

[Chas F.]

It's Hangsen's Indian. The first batch was from RTS so I ordered another batch from BullCity. I'm beginning to think it's just a stronger concentrate than previous batches because it's stronger and darker than before so I'm gonna mix up some up in the 1% range and let it steep. I think it's time to find more tobacco flavors.

 

[CoilMeister]

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[Chas F.]

Hm, I'll add that to my next order. I'm gonna try the Indian at a reduced %, about 2% this time around. I've noticed that I can't even taste the rum, where before it was very prevalent so I'm thinking the strength of the tobacco flavoring is much stronger than before and could be killing the taste.

 

[Heabob]

You're on the right track, just keep lowering the percent until it's right again.

Some add a couple drops of AP to tobaccos.

1-2% TFA Marshmallow will usually help to smooth things out a bit also.

 

[Chas F.]

Yep.
I add AP to all my tobaccos. Luv that stuff.
Does the marshmallow add any taste to the liquid?

 

[LoveVanilla]

HG Indian is one of my favorites. Did you try it solo to confirm Indian is the source of the issue?

 

[Chas F.]

HG Indian is one of my favorites. Did you try it solo to confirm Indian is the source of the issue?

No. The smell of the concentrate is so far off of what I normally get I didnt'/don't suspect any other ingredient. I'm gonna do up some test bottles starting at .5% and increase by .5% up to 3% and see what I get.

 

[dannyv45]

Did you vape just the base to make sure nothing went bad with the NIC? I can't see the HS flavoring change so drastically. I mean from 7% down to 4% and it's still not right is extreme. I've seen differences between 1 & 2% but never as high as 4%. I would start looking at the base. Is the flavoring rebottled or in it's original hangsen packaging? If it's rebottled and you say it smells nothing like what you use it may be a packaging mix up.

 

[Chas F.]

Danny, I haven't done any taste tests but I did smell the nic, PG and VG and everything smells 'normal' to me. If the .5% mixes don't fix it, I'll look into the other ingredients.

The reason I'm gonna try it at such a drastic reduced % is because I recall someone in the Hangsens thread saying he couldn't stand it at even ~3%. I really hope it's just a stronger concentrate, but I can't rule out the other ingredients just yet. I'm gonna get started on it now.

 

[dannyv45]

That's an interesting issue you have with it. Keep me posted and let me know how you make out. I received a 30ml bottle of TAB blend recently from RTS and had no issues with it at all. RTS is usually pretty dead on with there consistancy and if it is that way off maybe let them know about it. There customer service is usually pretty good at working these issues out.

 

[Chas F.]

Well, I'm in the middle of testing the base right now. PG is good, VG is good. I made a small sample of 9mg nic and there is a very slight bitter/pepper taste to it, but not at all like what I'm trouble shooting.

Thanks for the brain tickler Danny. When trouble shooting, it is always best to test your assumptions first. I'm gonna do the saline next then I'm gonna start on the .5 % solutions.

 

[Heabob]

Yep.
I add AP to all my tobaccos. Luv that stuff.
Does the marshmallow add any taste to the liquid?

Not much flavor in Marshmallow, more like a sweeter, fullness thing.

 

[Chas F.]

That's an interesting issue you have with it. Keep me posted and let me know how you make out. I received a 30ml bottle of TAB blend recently from RTS and had no issues with it at all. RTS is usually pretty dead on with there consistancy and if it is that way off maybe let them know about it. There customer service is usually pretty good at working these issues out.

I agree about RTS. Their customer service surprised me. I had several communications them over this while I had another in-route from BullCity, they even offerred another flavor of my choice but I declined since it wasn't their problem. The BullCity receipt confirmed that it wasn't a RTS mixup, but a difference in batches from Hangsens.

I've got five 5ml batches steeping right now ranging from .5% up to 3%. I didn't add any saline, rum or AP so the taste isn't gonna be the same but I'm not concerned about it since all I'm looking for is the basic Indian taste. Any other tobacco's that are close to the Indian?

Thanks for the info Heabob, so it's kinda like EM or is there less taste to it at low %?

 

[Chas F.]

Question: Is there a progression of symptoms when you add too much flavor? I know adding too much can have 2 distinct results, no flavor at all or a strong perfume taste. When I mix the Indian at 5% and above, I get a very bitter taste and very little other flavor but at 4% there is a definite perfume taste to it. So, does the progression go from good, perfume taste to no taste (nasty bitterness depending on the flavor)? Should I expect one of the lower % mixes I made up to be good or closer to good?