Too *much* flavor added?

[CdnBison]

Ok, so I'm still relatively new to DIY. I stick to single flavors - booze-based, almost exclusively.

I'm noticing that even at 20%, the flavor is often... meh. It's there, it's nice, but it's not the *WOW!* I've had from some vendor juices.In many cases, it's got all the punch of a feather.

Is part of the problem my ratio? Is 20% too high? Or am I just not finding the right flavor?

For reference, I'm mixing 80/20, ~10mg. Flavors have been pretty much any whiskey flavor I can find (HealthCabin, FW, FA) and a good number of pina colada flavors too. Add in some brandy, too. None of them has come close.

vaping on a lavatube, using 1.5 or 2.5 DC in a DCT, at an appropriate voltage.

Any possible solutions?

 

[bnrkwest]

Have you let your DIY juices set around for a week or two? That can make a difference, some get mellow some get stronger. Just add a drop more flavor until you hit the flavor level you want. I mix flavors in 5 ml PG/VG 80/20 with nic , one or two drops of flavor, then adjust from there. Just have to fiddle a bit Have fun! bnrk

 

[Hoosier]

Have you read my mixing videos and watched my DIY mixing blog?

Good, because I haven't done any videos on mixing, but my blog may have the answers you're lookin' for...

 

[LucentShadow]

20% is about the maximum that I've ever flavored a liquid. Of the two dozen or so flavorings that I still use, anywhere from 0.25% to 16% is the range for me, depending upon the flavoring.

Keep in mind that even in the same brand of flavoring, different flavors can have wildly different potency, so it's always a good idea to taste-test any new flavoring by mixing one drop with an appropriate number of drops of plain PG/VG to dilute it properly.

Personally, I've gone to trying most things really weak, first, and add flavoring as necessary. I had been mixing many far stronger than necessary. The taste is best when you use just enough.

There are also likely to be several things that vendors may use to enhance flavorings, most of which have been discussed in this forum. Things like malic acid, vinegar, ethyl maltol, and sucralose, to name a few. If you haven't tried either of the last two, and like sweet-tasting juice, they can definitely help many flavors.

 

[CdnBison]

Thanks all. I didn't realize that over flavoring would lead to under flavoring. Odd. Anyways,I have cut the ratio back and I will let it step before reporting back. As for sweeteners, I'm not sure how much that would help whiskey or bourbon.... Vinegar and lemon juice, though, intrigue me.

 

[StartLifeEndLife]

20% is about the maximum that I've ever flavored a liquid. Of the two dozen or so flavorings that I still use, anywhere from 0.25% to 16% is the range for me, depending upon the flavoring.

Keep in mind that even in the same brand of flavoring, different flavors can have wildly different potency, so it's always a good idea to taste-test any new flavoring by mixing one drop with an appropriate number of drops of plain PG/VG to dilute it properly.

Personally, I've gone to trying most things really weak, first, and add flavoring as necessary. I had been mixing many far stronger than necessary. The taste is best when you use just enough.

There are also likely to be several things that vendors may use to enhance flavorings, most of which have been discussed in this forum. Things like malic acid, vinegar, ethyl maltol, and sucralose, to name a few. If you haven't tried either of the last two, and like sweet-tasting juice, they can definitely help many flavors.

So when increasing flavor drop by drop how are you determining the final flavor percent that you like? As in math wise...I'm sure its simpler than I am thinking in my head as I tend to over complicate things.

I'm thinking its something like starting with 5mL of unflavored adding one drop of flavor (aprox. 1/20 mL or .05 mL) until desired flavor level is reached then counting how many drops it took...say 5 so that would be .25 mL of flavor added which would give you 5.25 mL total so to find the percent of flavor used you would take 5.25/.25 which would be 21% flavor?

okay if the above makes sense math wise than i guess its not as complicated as I thought it might be.

 

[wizard10000]

Thanks all. I didn't realize that over flavoring would lead to under flavoring...

Yup.

I've inadvertently vaped straight concentrated flavoring from Wizard Labs (long story, but it was a freebie they threw in with my order, I didn't have my glasses on and had my brain disengaged at the time - it should have occurred to me that a 4ml dropperless *glass* bottle probably didn't contain ready-to-vape joose).

In addition to being an extremely nasty vape it was almost impossible to identify the base flavor - I had to put my glasses on and read the label, which in hindsight is something I should have done in the first place

*note to self: If somebody gives you a present read the label before you sample*

 

[StartLifeEndLife]

Yup.

I've inadvertently vaped straight concentrated flavoring from Wizard Labs (long story, but it was a freebie they threw in with my order, I didn't have my glasses on and had my brain disengaged at the time - it should have occurred to me that a 4ml dropperless *glass* bottle probably didn't contain ready-to-vape joose).

In addition to being an extremely nasty vape it was almost impossible to identify the base flavor - I had to put my glasses on and read the label, which in hindsight is something I should have done in the first place

*note to self: If somebody gives you a present read the label before you sample*

I was actually thinking of asking the forum if anyone ever vaped straight flavor by mistake because I was curious what would happen. Now i know...thanks!

 

[LucentShadow]

So when increasing flavor drop by drop how are you determining the final flavor percent that you like? As in math wise...I'm sure its simpler than I am thinking in my head as I tend to over complicate things.

I'm thinking its something like starting with 5mL of unflavored adding one drop of flavor (aprox. 1/20 mL or .05 mL) until desired flavor level is reached then counting how many drops it took...say 5 so that would be .25 mL of flavor added which would give you 5.25 mL total so to find the percent of flavor used you would take 5.25/.25 which would be 21% flavor?

okay if the above makes sense math wise than i guess its not as complicated as I thought it might be.

Something like that, but your math problem is backwards. 0.25/5.25 = 0.0476 (rounded off) which is 4.76% (1/21) of the volume.

I just taste test to get me into the ballpark. For example, here's what I might do (note, I am somewhat intolerant to PG):

Mix, 49 drops VG thinned with 20% DW, 1 drop flavoring = approximately 1/50 or 2% flavoring. Making sure that the drop size is approximately equal is important. Warm and mix it.

Prime a clean atty with plain VG/PG, vape it until it needs a couple more drops, and add two of the flavored mix. If I get a full flavor, I know I don't need more, but may want to use less, especially if the taste seems too 'chemical-like'.

If it needs more, I add a drop, warm and shake it thouroughly. I just figure my 48 drops left still have 2% flavoring, plus my additional 1 drop adds 1/49, or 2.04%, so I've got about 4% now.

If it needs less, then I can add 16 or 48 drops of VG/DW to drop it to 1.5% or 1%, respectively. You can figure that just like you would when mixing down a nic base. Adding 16 drops with 0 flavor to 48 drops with 2% flavor would net you (2+2+2+0)/4 =1.5 percent. That's 48/16 = 3 portions of 2% flavor to one portion of 0% flavor, for a total of four portions.

Then, I'd blow out the atty and vape plain VG until the old flavor is gone and it needs a couple of drops, and try the new mix. I also rinse my mouth out with water between tests.

Of course, I often have an idea how much to start with based upon reviews, or more than double the percentage if it was obvious that i was way low, so this process usually only takes minutes most of the time. I'll then either do the math to use the existing mix to make a nicotine liquid mix, or discard it and make a small batch of nic liq with my target flavoring amount.

It'd be easier just to use nic liquid from the start, but I've gotten a bit sick a couple of times when testing several flavorings, because I'm impatient to try them...

 

[Keekers]

Whoopsy...I over flavored x10000000

 

[StartLifeEndLife]

Something like that, but your math problem is backwards. 0.25/5.25 = 0.0476 (rounded off) which is 4.76% (1/21) of the volume.

I just taste test to get me into the ballpark. For example, here's what I might do (note, I am somewhat intolerant to PG):

Mix, 49 drops VG thinned with 20% DW, 1 drop flavoring = approximately 1/50 or 2% flavoring. Making sure that the drop size is approximately equal is important. Warm and mix it.

Prime a clean atty with plain VG/PG, vape it until it needs a couple more drops, and add two of the flavored mix. If I get a full flavor, I know I don't need more, but may want to use less, especially if the taste seems too 'chemical-like'.

If it needs more, I add a drop, warm and shake it thouroughly. I just figure my 48 drops left still have 2% flavoring, plus my additional 1 drop adds 1/49, or 2.04%, so I've got about 4% now.

If it needs less, then I can add 16 or 48 drops of VG/DW to drop it to 1.5% or 1%, respectively. You can figure that just like you would when mixing down a nic base. Adding 16 drops with 0 flavor to 48 drops with 2% flavor would net you (2+2+2+0)/4 =1.5 percent. That's 48/16 = 3 portions of 2% flavor to one portion of 0% flavor, for a total of four portions.

Then, I'd blow out the atty and vape plain VG until the old flavor is gone and it needs a couple of drops, and try the new mix. I also rinse my mouth out with water between tests.

Of course, I often have an idea how much to start with based upon reviews, or more than double the percentage if it was obvious that i was way low, so this process usually only takes minutes most of the time. I'll then either do the math to use the existing mix to make a nicotine liquid mix, or discard it and make a small batch of nic liq with my target flavoring amount.

It'd be easier just to use nic liquid from the start, but I've gotten a bit sick a couple of times when testing several flavorings, because I'm impatient to try them...

Thanks! I thought something was off with my math there at the end, one of the reasons I only mix on my days off lol.

 

[Keekers]

I love math. In school. Other than that my brain freezes and refuses to do any formulas.