Totally not getting it right

[JustMeAgain]

I am trying to learn how to mix my own juice and what I've made so far is pretty awful. I have a limited supply of unflavored juice and hate to waste it making nasty nic soup. I was hoping to use what I have to hit on something that works for me so then I could order lots more and be set for awhile.

I have read through the threads and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I thought maybe if I posted what I have to work with someone might be willing to either tell me why it's not working or point me to a thread that has what I'm looking for.

Here's what I have on hand:
1 15ml bottle of Naked from Liquid Express 36mg
LorAnn's flavorings in apple, butter cream and a bottle of Wilton's clear vanilla flavoring
Wilton's glycerine (the one that says soften's cake icing)

Other than base ingredient stuff, I have the flavors in the welcome kit from Johnson's Creek and a bottle of 36mg vanilla from e-smokeytreats.

I used to love vanilla analogs, and was really surprised by how good apple flavor was when I got some in a free pack of prefilled super mini carts. I have the super mini and a Joye 510 and I want to use the 510...I really think it's great but I need to find a recipe with a nice strong flavor b/c I think that's what's going to help me eventually lower the nic level. A good throat hit would be nice, too.

I want to find the right mixture before I make up a bigger amount so this morning I mixed:

15 drops 36mg unflavored nic
18 drops glycerine
4 drops distilled water to thin
4 drops LorAnns apple

This gave me zilch: No flavor, no vapor, no throat hit.

Guess it makes sense: I'm not that good at cooking, either but could someone please help?

 

[wanderlust]

I found that for all my diy's I only really liked the taste for a short amount of time. Small quantities are the order for me.

 

[LedGecko]

If you had some PG (I'm assuming you don't since you didn't list it), you could experiment without wasting nic juice by substituting PG for the nic.

In my limited experience, I've found that VG tends to kill flavors, so I've gotten to the point where VG is 2% or less of my mixes, and I only even use that much if I need to thicken the juice or produce more vapor.

I've also found that 20% flavor is a good starting point for me. Your current recipe is less than 10% flavor, so it could probably use more of it. Some flavors (like coffee) are much stronger, and might only need 10-15%, but for the most part my mixes are 20-25% flavor.

 

[JustMeAgain]

So maybe it's the whole PG thing that has me confused...that 8th post in this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/19682-pg-vs-vg-vs-g.html says that they're all the same thing.

I know some have PG allergies, so they go w/VG, so apparently there is a difference but it sounded as though PG/VG/G all produced the same effect.

So do I have to get PG through a pharmacy? This is getting exhausting, trying to figure it all out. There's a lot of information here, but it's confusing.

 

[sattec]

I would not use water to thin it, I did and it goofed up my mix, now I use vanilla vodka...

 

[Moonflame]

From what I can tell VG and G are the same. PG is different. I've been adding a few drops of G when I fill or top off and adding 2 drops to the atomizer when I do that and it gives much better vapor than the e-liquid with PG alone. I got my pharmacist to order a pint bottle of glycerin and a pint of PG ($32 total) for when I get my flavors and unflavored juice and start mixing my own. Most pharmacies get daily deliveries so I called and ordered it one day and they got it in by 10 the next morning. Very easy and cheaper than I expected.

 

[Al Bundy]

I've been experimenting with various percentages of the Wilton's. I find that the higher the glycerin, the less the flavor. On the other hand, not enough glycerin and the vapor drops off significantly. 40% really kills the flavor almost completely IMO.

I've settled basically on 20% glycerin in my recipes, it provides the vapor amount I want on exhale and leaves enough flavor.

2mg juice:
5% 36mg juice
20% Glycerin
30% PG Flavoring (Bickford)
45% PG

I've also tried higher concentrations by using 75% flavor and it's way too strong and irritating to vape.

 

[JustMeAgain]

I just called my pharmacy and ordered a pint of PG...it could be in as soon as tomorrow morning

So, I'll try using just flavor and PG to get that part right, then move on from there...some people choose to thin their mix and others dont...how do you guys decide whether or not to thin? Vanilla vodka def sounds like a good choice...mmmmm

I know this has been talked about a lot around here, but has anyone ever really figured out which part of the mixture is responsible for the throat hit so you know what to add for a better hit?

Thanks for the help...I really want to figure this out and move on to mixing up more yummy flavors and combos. I think that's when it'll start being fun...

 

[Alan Richardson]

I've been experimenting both with VG and PG for about a month. In addition to the points made above regarding flavor, I have experienced that the richer the VG in the blend, the hotter the atomizer gets. My 510 tends to run hotter than my 901, so I use less VG in the 510 blend.

Also - a good source for inexpensive PG is your local livestock supply shop. 1 gallon of PG runs me about $20. Haven't found VG in gallons yet, other than on the internet, but the on-line prices start at about $50 for a gallon.

 

[caesar]

I found out that mixing the flavor first with PG then adding VG strengthens the flavor a lot.
For example 5ml flavor and 20ml VG produces the same aroma as 0.5ml flavor and 20ml PG or 0.5ml flavor + 5ml PG then adding 15ml VG.

As I'm not PG allergic I use mainly PG and add VG only to improve on vapor consistency.

 

[JustMeAgain]

2mg juice:5% 36mg juice 20% Glycerin30%
PG Flavoring (Bickford)45% PG

I used your recipe, and I'm still getting pretty much no hit and not much flavor. I'm not blaming your recipe, it's gotta be something I'm doing. I also did as someone else suggested and threw in a bit of vodka, and still nada.

I'm really not that hard to please and it's not like I'm used to that strong of a cigarette...I've been smoking Virginia Slim Menthol Lights for years, so I don't get why I'm not getting the hit or even a good flavor. I am getting what I'd call a medium amount of vapor.

I was looking at the LiquidXpress website, and they had some good information on ratios, so I followed this one:

12 pts unflavored 36mg
3 parts combo of PG and/or VG and flavoring...so I did a tiny amount using 12 drops of liquid with 2 drops PG and 1 drop LorAnn's flavor in a syringe.

No improvement, so I added a couple of drops each of vodka and VG to the cart I'd already filled.

I've had better luck with prefilled carts, but I know from reading the forums that diy can be better, so I really want to get this right.

BTW, I am using a charged battery and changed off during this to make sure it wasn't a low battery. I also changed atty's toward the end. I've also switched to different flavors - I used vanilla, apple and raspberry today.

Could it be because I'm making really small test batches and I'm throwing things off?

Or am I just juice challanged?

Suggestions please???

 

[mindtwist69]

being a menthol smoker you might have some luck trying menthol crystals, look around the forums many people have posted about them.

Rob

 

[JustMeAgain]

being a menthol smoker you might have some luck trying menthol crystals, look around the forums many people have posted about them.

Rob

Ok...I'll try that, thanks! Another thing occured to me is that I am using polyfill and maybe I'm not using the right amount. I know overstuffing can cause problems, but can not using enough do the same thing?

BTW, even though I'm still whining about learning to mix, the chart you have is really helpful...

 

[LedGecko]

Ok...I'll try that, thanks! Another thing occured to me is that I am using polyfill and maybe I'm not using the right amount. I know overstuffing can cause problems, but can not using enough do the same thing?

Understuffing might flood the atty, and you'll get a lot of gurgling and not much of a hit. Overstuffing prevents it from wicking properly, so not enough juice getting to the atty. But there's a wide enough range in between that if the stuffing looks right you should be OK.

This is my standard recipe for most flavors. It results in 11mg juice, but you can adjust the e-liquidG ratio to make it higher or lower mg. Try it and see how it works for you.

30% e-liquid (36mg)
20% PG
30% flavoring
20% Everclear

 

[Al Bundy]

I used your recipe, and I'm still getting pretty much no hit and not much flavor. I'm not blaming your recipe, it's gotta be something I'm doing. I also did as someone else suggested and threw in a bit of vodka, and still nada.

I'm really not that hard to please and it's not like I'm used to that strong of a cigarette...I've been smoking Virginia Slim Menthol Lights for years, so I don't get why I'm not getting the hit or even a good flavor. I am getting what I'd call a medium amount of vapor.

Could it be because I'm making really small test batches and I'm throwing things off?

Or am I just juice challanged?

Suggestions please???

The only way you're going to get that really big throat hit is either by increasing the temperature or adding some menthol as suggested.

I tried the menthol route with Bickford flavors and there's a problem. Without the tobacco flavor, it's too much like "Vicks" menthol. I've got small 5 ml batches of 2mg Raspberry Menthol and Grape Menthol laying around I need to wash out, they were just terrible.

There is another way to get the throat hit, but you'll sacrifice the vapor. Using all PG and ZERO glycerin creates a hotter vapor when inhaled. You'll notice the temperature difference as a bigger throat hit and the flavor will be stronger. The problem is you'll get very little to no exhale, so I call it "stealth vaping". Although I didn't mind the inhale, exhaling little to no vapor can be unnerving.

I don't think you'll be able to replicate the throat hit from a cigarette exactly, too many variables both in the juice and hardware to narrow down, but you have to find some middle ground. For me it was ultimately flavor so that's what my recipe was geared for.

I've been meaning to order some Capella's and Lorann's to put up against the Bickford flavors for comparisons, but I've got so much juice around here right now I just haven't bothered.

Keep at it, you'll find a balance eventually.

 

[LedGecko]

There is another way to get the throat hit, but you'll sacrifice the vapor. Using all PG and ZERO glycerin creates a hotter vapor when inhaled. You'll notice the temperature difference as a bigger throat hit and the flavor will be stronger. The problem is you'll get very little to no exhale, so I call it "stealth vaping". Although I didn't mind the inhale, exhaling little to no vapor can be unnerving.

Agreed to a point .... I used to add VG for the vapor it produced, but it really masked any flavor, so I added less and less VG until I realized I didn't need it at all. My mixes now have NO VG, and I still get plenty of vapor. But, I also use about 20% Everclear, so that could be where both the throat hit and vapor are coming from.

I don't think you'll be able to replicate the throat hit from a cigarette exactly, too many variables both in the juice and hardware to narrow down, but you have to find some middle ground. For me it was ultimately flavor so that's what my recipe was geared for.

Definitely. You can't replicate the hit from an analog. You have to train your mind that the feeling is different, but no less satisfying. You have to tell yourself that as long as you're getting the nic you need, the other sensations that used to come with it are no longer relevant.

I've been meaning to order some Capella's and Lorann's to put up against the Bickford flavors for comparisons, but I've got so much juice around here right now I just haven't bothered.

I've been less than impressed with Capella. The taste is there, but it's not as concentrated as Lorann's. I did the math, and Lorann is cheaper when you consider how much Capella you have to add to get the same concentration of flavor. I have yet to try Bickford, so I would be interested to hear how you fare with it, and how much of it you have to use to reach your flavor goal.

 

[Al Bundy]

I've been less than impressed with Capella. The taste is there, but it's not as concentrated as Lorann's. I did the math, and Lorann is cheaper when you consider how much Capella you have to add to get the same concentration of flavor. I have yet to try Bickford, so I would be interested to hear how you fare with it, and how much of it you have to use to reach your flavor goal.

I think it's the same across the board for all the brands, you have weak flavors and strong flavors. Right now I use 30% flavoring in my recipes, it's just like using PG or anything else. I have tried using 75% flavoring, but it's still either way too concentrated or still too weak, and it gives me a wicked headache.

I would never order the Bickford watermelon, apple, or cranberry again. They are so weak that even concentrated in the bottle you can barely smell them.

Wild Cherry is REALLY strong. I have to cut this down to 20% flavoring just for this flavor it's so overwhelming.

My favorites are Raspberry, Blueberry, and Grape. Strawberry is strange, I haven't found the right concentration to vape it. 30% is way too much. It's hard to explain, but the if the concentration is too high, you can't even smell the strawberry smell. It's almost like alcohol smell.

By far the most interesting flavor is Orange. It's a REALLY SMOOTH vape regardless of the concentration and it's not overwhelming. The interesting thing about the orange is that even if you drip any other flavor on the atomizer with orange, the orange flavor seems to completely dominate all other flavors. Takes quite a lot of vaping to get rid of the orange flavor. I haven't tried it yet, but adding some orange to recipes might smooth them out in very small amounts.

I still have a bunch of other flavors I haven't tried yet, as well as none of the other brands.

 

[JustMeAgain]

Keep at it, you'll find a balance eventually.

Yesterday, Rob from LiquidXpress offered to help my over the phone...I'd gotten some Naked juice from him and he talked me through making a batch and I am so much happier. Got a nice throat hit and much tastier flavor. I'd highly recommend him as a juice supplier. He spent a lot of time talking to me and I learned so much. He even encouraged me to try lots of liquids from different suppliers. He was very sincere in wanting me to be happy rather than just trying to sell more juice.

I'm not usually this needy but for some reason this whole thing had me a bit intimidated. Not anymore, though. He answered a lot of my questions and I'm feeling a lot more confident about the whole thing. I think it was because I was making such tiny batches that it threw the whole thing off (I didn't realize that a drop of a thicker liquid v a drop of a thinner liquid were really not the same amount lol)

Now I'm off and running, ready to try more recipes. I def plan to utilize the info you guys have posted here...ty so much for the encouragement and support.

Now I want to get the everclear/vodak possibilities into the 'mix'...anyone try any other types of alcohol, like maybe rum? I'm assuming that it's better to steer clear of any colored liquor. I wonder if there are any clear flavors of schnapps?

Now this is starting to sound like fun....