Traumatized for life - non e-cig issue, thankfully..

[mishelle]

Unfortunately, I am not able to have children... rather, I can get pregnant, but I miscarry around the 4-6 month time frame. (I've always been a dog person.) So, now.. my animals are my children. Even if I could have children, they would still be my children. The only negative thing about mixing my own juice or having liquid nicotine in the house is my animals. I have three cats and three dogs. If someone told me 5 years ago that I would have a cat I'd ask them what drugs they are on, so for my friends, it's really shocking that I have cats... but I love all of them and I pride myself on being a responsible pet owner.

Monday night (8/31/09) at 8:46pm my life changed forever... my youngest dog, Atlas, had a seizure. It was the single most terrifying moment in my entire life. He was asleep when it happened and I noticed how my oldest dog (Spud) jumped on the sofa and started to nuzzle him and whimpered. I was in shock because normally they don't get along.. Spud is a grumpy old man and he has no time in his life for childish antics lol So, this was unusual for him. I went back to reading my news online and 20 seconds later, my two dogs who were aslelep with Atlas on the sofa, jumped up like cats and thats when Atlas started the seizure. I freaked out, to say the least. It didn't hit me right away that it was a seizure... I thought he was choking. Once my husband said, "is he rabid?" look at the foam" then it hit me. I started petting him and saying his name in a somewhat soothing voice (through the hysterics of crying my heart out). My husband pulled him back away from the sofa so his head wouldn't get caught on anything and we just watched, helplessly, as he went through the phases. It seemed like an eternity.. but it was really about a minute when he started breathing again and was blinking, all of our other animals were whimpering and meowing.. trying to get close to him to help him, I think. Once he started to come around... he growled at us. He has never done that before... never. (vet told me he was probably "blind" for a few minutes, which is what happens to animals when they seize.. great) I gathered our animals and took them out of the room because I know after a person has a seizure, they are VERY disorientated afterwards... and after I softly said his name a few times and used our carenos (dont know how to translate that to english.. but endearments?), he started wagging his tail and lifted his head up. I was finally able to breathe... he urinated on himself (which is normal for seizures) and he was walking around like he was drunk. We took him outside and he went to the bathroom again and was very disorientated. When we brought him back inside, I started to clean up the mess...(thank goodness for leather sofas!) being the darling that he is, he went over to the sofa, smelled his urine and his ears laid down and tail immediately tucked under. He looked at me with that "i'm so sorry" look and I just broke down. Being the good dog that he is, he knew it was his urine and became submissive like he did something wrong. He even moved his paw with one of the towels which made it look like he was trying to help me clean it up. Of course it wasn't his fault, they say he didn't even know he had one, but to see my sweet baby think he did something wrong after an event like that was almost more that I could bare. Even now, when I close my eyes, I can see him having the seizure and the total helplessness washes over me. My husband describes it as the worst night in his life and he thought he was going to watch his dog die right before his eyes, because that is EXACTLY how it feels. I feel so helpless.. it is MY responsibility to take care of him, and then this happens? Uggh..

Fortunately for me I used to date a guy who had epilepsy. Weird to say, but I'm thankful for that experience. When he and I were together, I researched until I had the same information over and over again. I know everything there is to know about epilepsy and seizures... in humans. After his visit to the vet where they could not tell me what caused it. His blood work and tests came out negative...and aside from the seizure, he's an ox. When I told the dr that I have experience with epilepsy due to a past relationship he told me then "you have an advantage that most people do not because a seizure in an animal is IDENTICAL to a human." My first concern when I took him to the vet was: nicotine. I would not be able to live with myself if anything happened to my animals because of me. All my supplies, mixes etc are in a room that we do not use and no animal goes in there (guest bedroom). I have a vanity that I use to get my nic ready for they day and the door is always secure. I was worried that he got into the trash (I carry a paper towel in case of over filling carts etc.) and ate a napkin I had used to blow out my atty or clean my 901 from spillage.. I kept on blaming it on something I did, but all the tests show "it just happened"... so now, since he had a seizure, he's prone to another one. Great.

I have spent the last four days researching seizures in animals and what could cause them. I don't want to leave him alone because if he has another seizure I don't want him to be alone before, during or after. Since he's so athletic, I'm worried about over heating him.. so he's not being exercised like he used to. Since all my animals are indoor animals, it makes playtime tricky. Has anyone experienced this in an animal before? Where they had one seizure for no reason, and then never have one again?

My husband used to say, it was Atlas' world in our house... now, he's absolutely right. This experience has us both spooked. When people first meet my husband, they are very intimidated by him. He's a big guy, not obese big.. but just big 6'4, 250lbs and most of it is muscle (except his "happy gut" lol that most men get after they get married). This is a man who can lift a back end of a car with one hand to slide the drive shaft with the other... and he's having a hard time with this too. He's having horrible nightmares that make him get up in the middle of the night to check on the animals. He'll just sit up on the side of the bed and will the nightmares to go away. He says he's having the same one over and over again where Atlas and Geena (our baby girl) BOTH had seizures and they died from lack of oxygen. He always wakes up when they die and it is really bothering him, naturally. (and me.. those are horrible nightmares)

I'm trying to get back into our schedule, but I'm finding it hard to let him stay outside for any length of time other than to do his business. I love all my animals dearly and when one is ill, it affects them all... they are all being very affectionate with him and letting him get away with murder! It's neat to see my little rainbow tribe working together (cats & dogs) to take care of him. I am not normally a drama queen, but when it involves my neice, nephews and animals... I can be pretty bad. lol If anyone has had experience in this, could you please tell me what I can do to calm down, for one, and if anything you did helped your animal? Thank you all for listening... everyone here is so helpful, I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask this question here (if I posted in the wrong area, please let me know and I'll repost in the appropriate area).

Here is some info on my kiddos:
Spud - peke-a-poo 7lbs
Geena - mini weenie/cocker spaniel mix 23 lbs
Atlas - American Staffordshire Terrier 68 lbs
Tommy - Am. shorthair / solid black 12 lbs
Luna - Am. shorthair / solid white 11 lbs
Little - Am. Shorthair / orange & white 4 lbs

p.s.
Sorry for the long post, I can type almost as fast (135wpm) as I think, and just getting a little thought typed out can turn into a book.

 

[deliza]

My two oldest dogs where both epileptic, one from brain damage due to injury before we took him in, and the other idiopathic. It will get easier to deal with, it really really will. Sadie, out oldest (who lived to be 17) was on phenobarbital for 15 of her 17 years, and while medicated very rarely had one. Sampson (the one with brain damage) even medicated, had them, in clusters, about every 3 to 4 weeks. It truely does get easier to deal with. I would bawl every time Sam had one for the first 6 months or so, but it kinda becomes par for the course after awhile. They are generally in no danger from the seizure, unless you have stairs, and I would recommend not leaving a collar on an unattended dog with a history of seizures as well. And as long as they are not over medicated there is no reason it should shorten their life expectancy at all. Oh, and phenobarb is pretty cheap to, so its not too hard on the wallet.

Best of luck!!

 

[beckah54]

Mishelle,

It is unbelievable just how attached we grow to our pets. Just the thought of one of them being sick makes me want to cry.

Pets are so devoted to their "family", they will give their life to defend them from harm. I can understand perfectly what you must be going through right now and how hard it must be.

All you can do is love and protect them as you've always done and let your vet work out the best plan possible. I hope the seizures don't happen again, but you will be there for him and that's the most important thing.

My pack includes one miniature pinscher, Jake. He about 2 1/2.
Wiley -- he's a rescue weiner dog and the best boy you could ask for. He seems to have been physically abused and is very timid. Has lots of scars on his body. (How can anyone do that to an animal)! I'm not sure about his age, lots of greying around his snout.
Last but not least is my mini weiner dog, Miss Dinky. She rules with an iron paw and takes no sass. Both boys know who the boss is. She's almost 5.
They all consider me their personal "lap" and get very upset when I actually want to use my lap myself.

I couldn't live without them.

Best wishes with your pooch. Hope he's all better and has no more problems.

 

[Kimerpuff]

Mishelle,

My heart is so going out to you! I totally know how you feel when one of your animal kids are going through something difficult like that!!

You may want to join a yahoo group dedicated to dog eplilepsy like Yahoo! Groups: Groups Discussing dog epilepsy | Yahoo! Groups. They will have tons of info, similar situations, and the experience that will help you through this. Especially if he does have them again. (I pray not) I have a couple groups im members on in yahoo and I have it set up that I just get emails on new posts.. I read what is pertinent to me (I feed raw) and delete things Im not interested in.. really doesnt take much time and I have learned tons from the people there.

We have a samoyed (3yr female) Rumor and a cat Sox who thinks he owns us lol
Ive had nightmares and woken up in the dead of night to put the cat in the dogs kennel cause I dreamt the dog killed the cat! hehe well they do play and have fun, but a sammy is prey driven and I worry!

/hugs and prayers for no more seizes!

 

[PatriciafromCO]

My heart goes out to you Mishelle ... you can look at herb nervines,, valerian is commonly used for dogs,, and I like lobelia because it deals with the lower connection of the brain and is repairative by nature.. That can be given through out the day to keep their nervious system calm.. You can also keep Rescue Remedy,, I like the spray if you can find it.. if he has a seizure you can spray it on the skin of his ears (not in the ears only on the skin area) and on his paw pads it will get into his system that way and may ease him out of a seizure...

if this has never happen before look over his history and the recent history,, anything new to your home is there anything leading up to the seizure that was different or odd where was he during the day and just before it happen. There is no satistics to prove it because most dogs go straight to medication after the first seziure for the rest of thier life to say a dog is truly problemactic or just had an acute reaction to something in the environment... I don't find dogs are prone to seizures just because they have one... Every seizure does damage, lack of correct nurtion can cause it, injury, getting into poison can do it... Atlas is a tiny thing and it wouldn't take much of the right toxin to cause an acute reaction... Like the repairative herbs in case there was any damage or frying a circut, and also nutrition sups to support after a seizure..

Hugs to you hope all goes well....

 

[shivadance]

Hi Mishelle, I'm so sad to hear you had to experience that. And the horror to think it might have been nicotine even though it wasn't. I'm just as careful as you, the thought of accidentally hurting my baby just terrifies me. I can't imagine what you went through. But remember, animals have an easier time than moving past these things than humans! The more you obsess over it the more it will impact your furry ones as well. You have to overcome your fear for their sake. It may happen again, it may not. But you're way more equiped to deal with it than most of the population so take heart in that!

Best wishes to Atlas, and keep us updated!

 

[mishelle]

Thank you all so very much for your posts. It's nice knowing there are so many other animal lovers out there.

I am having to tell myself constantly.. calm down, calm down. I'm on him like white on rice, especially when he's asleep. I have to actually talk myself down.. tell myself to breathe. I am starting to relax a bit finally..

I have been going through the past couple of weeks in my head. I have read probably close to 2000 pages on the Internet about dogs and seizures, and I remember one article I read where there could have been a head injury and a seizure could come up months later. I dont remember if it was a reputable site, but that stuck in my head because Atlas did hurt himself back in June. He hit it hard enough to where it hurt him (he yelped, normally his breed has an extreme high tolerance for pain). He hit the top of his head into the fence. I also noticed today that a can of raid, silver polish, flea collar (half of it..chewed up ), and an off brand box of SOS pads in the back yard. I went through our back yard today.. I walked every inch and found all this stuff and other things that were chewed up to the point they were not recognizable. I gathered everything in the box so my husband and I can do research on these items this weekend. Most of these things are not mine.. (I don't use the disposable flea collars) and I remember reading on a site that some of these items can cause seizures.

I would be happy if he never had one again, of course, but if he does, I want to be prepared for it. We still haven't put floors back in since Hurricane Ike last year, and that is now a priority. We have concrete floors right now, and I don't want to add anymore injuries to this situation. My husband is going to build a "cooling station" outside for the dogs and we're going to rearrange our furniture to get the sharp edges out of the areas the animals are allowed to be in.

I also keep the dogs kenneled at night, because of the cats.. I didn't want to stress out the cats and like you said, I didn't want to bring the predator out of the dogs. lol

Thank you all for all your warm thoughts and prayers! I'll keep you all posted. Once I get a chance, I'll upload pictures to an album.

 

[SudokuGal]

Mishelle, my heart goes out to you and your husband. What a frightening experience. We love our pets so much and they can't tell us how they're feeling.

Since the other animals are so attuned to him, they might be able to alert you if he does again have one (here's to hoping that it doesn't happen). I've heard of animals alerting people who are about to have a seizure, and now that they've seen his, hopefully one of them will have this special ability.

I have a friend who had a mixed breed who had seizures...Ms Pippin lived to be 17 years old. Best wishes...and give him a hug from your friends on the forum.

 

[deliza]

Patricia, I don't know of any reputable vet that recommends meds after the first seizure, and if one ever recommended that to me, I would run the other way......... but it is commonly held that a seizure in a dog (or human for that matter), can be both idiopathic and non-recurring.


Mishelle, yes, seizures can occur some time after a head injury. I would take a good look at where that half eaten flea collar came from though, that could very well be your culprit.

We always kenneled Sam at night as well, for him it was because he would sleep walk and pee while doing so (swear to good..... I always get the weird ones ). Just don't put him in there with a collar on (or use a breakaway collar when kenneled).

I think we need some pictures of Atlas I love bully breeds, and love to see them living pampered house lives!

 

[Ghetto_Cowgirl]

Hey, I'm sorry to read about all that it's not nice to go through I know.

I have a cat that is 2 years old now, when he was about a month or so old my son bought him out into the lounge room and hid him under the blanket, he just wanted to play with him My husband came out to check what our dog outside was barking at, he knelt on the blanket...on the kitty and well, we assume a good minute or so had passed before we realized he was kneeling on the kitten. We realized and put the kitten in our bed, he couldn't walk or move very much, we weren't sure if we had broken his legs or anything. We had the vet check him out and he was fine, he started to recover after that.

However, he didn't bend his back legs, he couldn't get up on furniture like the rest. he seemed very very slow to learn things.

A month or so after this (I could be wrong with how long, it's been a while) he had his first seizure. Scared the hell out of myself and hubby! We took him to the vet right away, they couldn't find anything wrong. We bought him home and he had a few more seizures, the vet recommended Phenobarbital (SP?). A few ML per day. We done this, but as he grew he started to have more seizures.

Long story short he is now 2 years old, he has 1 pill in the morning and 1 pill at night, if I'm more than 1 hour later there's a good chance he will have a seizure. We never have figured out what is wrong with him, all his tests come back fine. Our only theory is the incident with hubby on the couch.

Our vet tells us he knows of dogs that live to very ripe old ages on the same medication as our cat. He's very unfamiliar with it in a cat though, so he's learning a lot from ours

I guess I was sharing this to say, there's others out there with animals like this, it's scary as all hell to watch them go through it but it's nice to be there for him.

My cats name is Waddles (because he used to waddle after the incident when he didn't bend his legs, he walks just fine now though ) He is the loopiest cat you will meet, he absolutely loves to curl up in bed with us and sleep, he's very loving, though he does still have the occasional seizure.

When he has a seizure he pee's on himself, he shakes, his claws go into himself. What I do is grab a towel and put it over his back half and hold his back legs down, he's cut himself a few times with his back claws . After it's over he's very very jumpy, slightest noise will set him off. I put a towel around him and huggle him up like a baby and he kind of naps for a little while then he goes off and eats something. A little while later he'll start to go back to his usual self, yes he does walk around blind too. It's very sad to watch it

I hope all goes well with yours, I skimmed over the rest of the posts so not sure if I missed anything else (a hubby annoying me is not helping me right now heh)

 

[mishelle]

I contacted my vet earlier about the collar and a few other items I found, just in case.. but as usual, they never seem to care enough to call someone back. It may not be important to them, but it's very important to me. However, I contacted my vet in Houston and told him what I found (he actually comes to the phone and I faxed a copy of all the test results and records on Atlas from the vet here in Orange.) He is going to go over all of Atlas' records and test results, and give me a call tomorrow, Saturday.. He probably wont tell me anything I haven't heard, but the mere fact that he's "on it" makes me feel better. I live in a small town and I am NOT happy with any of the vets in this area. I have gone through six of them, and none of them compare to my vet back in Houston. I hate that I live so far... There is no personalized treatment here, I never feel like I get my questions answered and I've simply had a couple of bad experiences. (I need to get my little girl, Geena, spayed... but I DO NOT trust them here. Two years ago, Tommy the Cat was neutered and he has a permanent limp now. His surgery was here in Orange.)

I can't tell you how much all of your experiences and words have helped me chill out on this. I have been able to let him be. I don't want my paranoia to change his way of life. He's a happy, spoiled dog... as all my animals are. Here are a few pictures I could find in my photobucket account.

Tommy the Cat (this picture really shows his no-holds-barred attitude lol)

Spud

Geena

Atlas, 15 hours after his seizure

It's a dogs life... He was asleep over my lap, and when I got up he ended up like this. He really thinks he's a lap dog, he doesn't seem to realize he's about 55lbs too heavy. lol

Luna

Little

and this picture reminds me of one of those loldogs pictures in the general forum.

Atlas' Parents, Chloe(L) and Handy(R)

Chloe on the left, and Handy on the right

Atlas' grandpa (Chloe's daddy) - Opie

Atlas' grandma (Chloe's momma) - Dawn

 

[PatriciafromCO]

Mischelle they are adorable !!!! Gald your last vet is working on it for you..

I use to have excellent life long vets up to 10 years ago and then he retired not liking the changes that were starting... All the over charging walking in the door, touching your dog but not really examining them.. 16.00 dollars for the vet tech being in the room, the cost of a shot,, and 4.00 to give the shot.. It's been down hill ever since that trend started as far vets... It's a candy shop for medication around here cost you about 250.00 for a dog having a tummy ache... Told my neighbor it was just a stomach upset for the over exhertion she sudden requested of him But I guess it made her feel better getting 2 shots vaccine and a nasea, meds(my favorite NOT rimadly) and a vet bill for 250.00... Vets get away with it because it makes the humans feel better.. The special of the day at the vet clinic was the rattle snake vaccine and they sold it to her lock stock and barrel.. ???? so yes the vet profession has become the use car salesmans of pushing products more then anything else..

I currently have an cranky old timer vet I like him, plain and simple call it as it is... seen it all,, it's just a scatch have a great day type of guy,, Gelded my clydes at 21/2 years old for 125.00.. and 50.00 of that was for the home vist travel... Helped my older dogs pass over when it was time for 75.00 cost of the medication and again 50.00 for the home visit travel... Most places can't neuter a small dog for any where near what I paid for a 1000lb clydes... So yes around here they would put a dogs on seizure medication after one icodient saying poor breeding and play on the hearts of owners with no other information for the owners to consider.. got to push the merchandise and keep them coming back...... not all,, but too many....

 

[SudokuGal]

Mishelle, those are great pics!

 

[comfortably numb]

Hi Mishelle,

I apologize I did not see this post until today... I too experienced that nightmare last October. My old Golden Retriever was dying (had been sent home the day before with a death sentence)...my son, her boy was staying downstairs with her - that is where our Siberian Husky sleeps. At 5am I hear labored breathing, I thought for sure it was my Golden, my son screamed my name - I ran down the stairs to find my 18 month old sibe in a grande mal seizure. Like you at first I thought he was choking (my son said he had vomited right before it happened). I was fighting to get his collar off of him, but because he was spasming with the seizure I could not get it off. I finally did when he started to come out of it, but he bit me badly in the process and broke two of my fingers.

We were back at the Vet that morning for my Golden, I mentioned the seizure to him, and how I had put two and two together and seen evidence of others the last few months. Because he slept down stairs, and they happen most often during sleep - this had been the first one we witnessed. My Vet immediately started him on pheno., he has not had a grande mal seizure since, but has had a couple of petit mal, which are no big deal after those nasty grande mals.

I read everything I could get my hands on, and felt so helpless, and frighened of another one. They are awful to witness.... I decided to be a bit proactive, the things I did may not have prevented another seizure but they did make me feel like I was doing something. There have been some things written about giving some natural vanilla ice cream just after a seizure, or before if you see them starting to go into the cycle. My dogs got natural vanilla ice cream every night before bed (not that they were complaining LOL). Also with my golden being ill, I started putting Bach flower Rescue Remedy drops in their water bowl.

You and your furkids are in my thoughts,

Juls

 

[Ghetto_Cowgirl]

Wow I'm interested now, Vanilla Ice cream?? How do you give it to them, it's cold so I'm curious. I wonder if it works for a cat? The Pheno works wonders, if I'm late with it he has a seizure, so no doubt in my mind it works. But I'd be curious about this ice cream thing

 

[comfortably numb]

Because most of us do not know the cause of seizures in our pets... I guess some have seizures due to sugar related issues... kind of like hypo glycemia I think.

My brothers Lab, had seizures due to sugar and he was told by his Vet to keep a candy bar on hand to give him after hunting (imagine that LOL).

I don't know that the natural vanilla ice cream really helps, but it won't hurt them. I have large dogs, so I always gave a few tablespoons full.

In our case, now our poor Sibe is also Zinc deficient and calcium inhibits zinc absorption, so he can't have his ice cream anymore....bummer.

ETA seizures really heat up the body, so the cold ice cream after the seizure is good for them....if it is a small dog or a cat, and you are using it before hand, you can always let it melt a bit first. Mine just gobbled it right off a spoon LOL.

 

[PatriciafromCO]

my understanding of seizures is tramactic injury related, or nutrional related... every seizure cause more and more irrepairable damage to the body that's why the medication is benificial when a seizure is not an acute reaction.. But the body can still heal/restore while on medication to prevent seizures,, I'm not against the medication but it isn't the end of what you can do for an animal,, higher understanding of diet needs, and I (hear) accupunture is benificial....

 

[Mary Kay]

I wish you all the best in dealing with this..all of you! Your hearts are so big..I know your pets must feel loved. I feel so honored to know you all!

 

[mishelle]

Wow, natural vanilla ice cream? Which brand do you use? I know he understands the words ice cream because when I was talking to his dad about it, his ears perked up and his tail started to wag! lol I'm all for changing his diet and making sure he gets what he needs, nutritionally. Since his breed already runs hot, I am not taking any chances now. In the past four days he has learned a new trick. I tell him, get some water... he goes to the bowl and drinks enough to make me feel better, then he comes for a rub down. Since he's so smart, and probably because he doesn't want any, when I ask him to get water sometimes, he'll just lap it once and look at me to see if that was "sufficient" lol I started him on walks again, but I have asked a few neighbors on our route if I could use their water hose from time to time. I carry bottled water for him anways, always have... but if he's panting too much to suit me I can stop at one of the 4 houses where I have received permission to use their hose and I water down his neck and torso until he's drenched, then we carry on til the next house. It's working out perfectly. We walked this morning in the rain, he absolutely LOVED it. I didn't have to stop to cook him off, and he got his exercise too.

My vet in Houston said, medically,. they can't explain why he had one because all his test results look very good, but since I found a few items that concern him, he could have very well had a seizure from eating the flea collar. He said flea powder can cause seizures in animals. We'll see... it will be a week tomorrow since his episode and so far, so good.

Hearing all these stories, it's amazing how many animals have seizures. I really love talking and sharing with other animal lovers, they are the only ones that understand. My husbands uncaring father told him to have him put down! Can you believe that ignorance?!?!?!? He said, he's only an animal. I became so angry, I couldn't hear for almost two minutes. All I felt was blood boiling through my veins. I asked him to please not ever tell me anything anyone says that is negative about our kids again. It will cause me to become unglued and I will not be held responsible for my actions. I'll let him have that one dig, next time, I wont be so quick to blow it off. Uggh..

I hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend!

 

[SudokuGal]

Hmmppphhhh...only an animal.